I'm starting to think that 'Dragonborn' is a rather poor translation of DOVAKHIIN.

'Dragonembryo' seems more appropriate.

Dovahkiin are neotenic Dov? If so, would developing beyond this (stunted?) state be dracochrysalis, apotheosis, or both? If (also) so, what conditions would be required to force the transformation, and did Ysgramor successfully accomplish this?

Both, because Dracochyrsalis is a form of Apotheosis.

'scuse m'lads n' lasses whilst I take t'guise...

The rather precocious blue squirrel nibbling on acorns on yonder branch is quite correct in her non-plussment.

The Father of The Fatherland of the Nord national consciousness, like all the epoch-auteurs of the history of men before and hence, was possessed, in animo, of an aurbilical protoontologue of world-coiling majesty. It has many nyms amongst the lingual-minds writhing across the aurbical silt like anemones filtered-feeding on premises, but the one with [fiat] currency amongst my order is Akagarbha: Embryo of Pankratia, Dragon-Nature, The Tosh-principle, Seed of Imperium. Given proper cultivation, good [reign] and black [raum], it may sprout into mighty banyan-tumtum, Aurbor Mundi, whose fruits exceed varieties fifty-score and eight.

Doubters take note of my [circles]:

All Imperators are Dragons. (I /\ D)

Ysgramor was Imperator Nordicus [High-King]. (y /\ I)

Ysgramor was a Dragon (y <=> D), QUD.

Nahl, sahlo joorrebrod. Is my hide hoary hirsute? I am the root-rune, the rhizome-recall, uifeygol ahrk rotruhkt se qeth, FEYKROMIIN! Through horizon and horizon I wrench to the wheezing summons of Eye-Wounded Elk, the great Thoroughly-Odd, Fehkey Sadon se Moro, for fey and fey and feykromvahl, to strike down in stencil-stone and root-rune the bubbling deeps of this Sky Rim's past. Tinvaak se dovah voth joorre, for your growth and groan. So bring your spirit liqueur. My kin - if they wilt heed my call - will guzzle it like the blood and brine of old.

But you jibber and jabber, and my words rise slow. It has been long since I held tinvaak with mortals. Of egg and seed and coccoon you speak, of scaly shell and frothing Blood springs. But where does it rise? Whence wells Blood? And from whence did we exodust the seas?

Apotheosis is a grafting of two dimensions (cloven duality) into one time-stream. The Dragonborn heals the schism in a person. You can have multiple Ysgramors, as a result.

The Mother of Dragons.

Do you know who was also a Nordic Dragon? Ysmir. Do you know who Ysmir was? The Underking. The Underking's soul powers Numidium. Numidium is the Dwemer. Thus, all the Dwarves are Dragons. Therefore Numidium can transform into a giant bronze Dragon.

That's a bit of a tangent, don't you think? The dwemer belong in another topic.

Perfect welcome after too-long wanderings away.

Feykromiin [censored] thunders, and Hasphat and the dear Lady's academic pvssyr is delightful.

Greetings, dear Kurtha-Khul. It's nice to see you there.


Well, okay.

ZE NI THAR
PE LI NAL
NU HAT TA
...KUR THA KHUL
KAR KUX OR
CAR LO VAC
O KA TO[sh]
NI LI CHI[m]

and so on.

You're definitely on to something. IT'S A FREAKIN' DRACONSPIRACY.

Isn't it obvious that everyone is a dragon? That is to say everyone is able to be a dragon. The continuum of possibility vs actuality is quite large and stretches as far to the X as to the Y and especially to the Z. It should come to no one's surprise that anyone is a dragon or becomes a dragon or looks quite like one through a bead of recently splashed water.

Why are water droplets always round?

Hydrostatic equalibrium: that's just the most convenient form for it to take.

aad semblio yada yada yada...

Sload Dragon.

Tis' true when they say that "Sheogorath is already inside each of us. You have already lost."

The golden road is walked by many on this forum, it would seem. I mean Ysgrammor was obviously a dreugh.

This is why video games have to svck, ladies and gentlemen.

Dwemer belong in every thread eventually. Like CHIM and Vivec. There is no escape.

Backtracking.

So anyways, dragons. I like dragons. Now let's filter through it all.

Paarthurnax and Odahviing speak to the Dragonborn as though he (pronoun used for convenience, alter as needed in your mind) is one of their own, and that ghost, having only encountered one Dragonborn in Hjalti, sees the same in you. Therefore, I think it is reasonable to say that Dragonborn are, at the base, dragons in human form (OLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAF!) and, as the Book of the Dragonborn says, it is not necessarily a state a person is born into, although they can.

So, step two. Was Ysrgamor Dragonborn? Possibly, and if he was then that means that he was a dragon, without breaking good sense in your encounters with his human-shaped shade in Sovngarde. Now for his name, is it a Shout, and therefore a true name of a dragon? Well, you notice that dragon name-Shouts are their main traits. That works for Dragons who are immortal and are created in a full state, like Odahviing and Paarthurnax (Snow Hunter Wing, Ambition Overlord Cruelty). It may well be, in eras past, men who took on the traits of dragons before the full Pact of the Dragonborn happened may have been granted trait-name Shouts.

So dissect his name, I guess. SUMMAT BATTLE SUMMAT. "Morah" is focus, and I don't know if they clip words to make rotmoraag.

I honestly thought it was "Moro" rather than "Morah," since Glory fits more with the individual. Iiz as Ys doesn't quite sit right with me.

In my understanding dragons are Ehlnofey that found a trick to not subgradiate into lower forms.
They would not procreate, they would not die, in effect they do not really live as they are eternal and unchanging and thus not subject to the downward pull of the Wheel.

This would be why Alduin eats souls, to gain power above the eternal merry-go-round of his own life-force that keeps him everlasting and unchanging.

Ysgramor ascending to be a dragon..
Hats.
As above, so below and he who walks like Him for long enough forces Him to walk like he.
Ysgramor wore the dragon hat for long enough to become that symbol of unchanging power in the eyes of his people, and as such a dragon.


Or maybe Im just talking out of my hat.

To be pedantic, a dragon's name isn't a shout. They're all formed by three words, but they're not shouts (IIRC, Esbern mentions this when he teaches you about Odahviing). You can shout their names, but much like the Greybeards shouting "Dovahkiin", it's merely an announcement that has no real power. Dragons, however, tend to take it as a challenge and investigate it, but that's about it.

A diffuse effulgence - a keening shrieked roar - coils and coils of snares and snares - a shimmering bulk in the sky - brilliant scales slick with goniochromism - copper-tang on the tongue - a hundred wings shattering! sound!! and light!!!


UNCLE. flicker flicker blink shut blink FLASH. You bore the poor mortals. What, come to tell of their history, and spoken in riddles and question-leads? KRUZIIK MEY UNSLAAD. And leading them to what they clearly already know! flare snap shimmer. Why ease the blow? They have already accepted that they are but grubs, squirming in arrested metamorphosis forever. Let them know the fullness of Truth.

MORTALS. You gathered to know of the ancient overthrow of the dovah, of its why and how and wherefore? It is quite simple. Ysgramor Fahliil-Naake fled the panting frost maw of the north from necessity, for the lives of the fresh and half-incubated. Too deep, too quick, too harsh had the claw-gashes pierced; what once was the Well fountained into Deluge, and the crag-lands crusted in ice, too fierce and perilous for any not yet of the Dov. Their blood remembers this flight, and the ichor that caused it, to this day, in this land to which they fled. They found the fahliilod, and blood and battle ruled their lives; Ysgramor's maw dripped blue-black for aeons. But when they had at last stamped their names anew on the land in Voice and fist, and turned to wahlaan, to rebuilding - then they found their sorrow anew.

flash flutter flicker zap!

They were frozen. They could not grow. Of the mortals, the pale-skinned Nords, as you would call them, none remembered that they could grow, that they could change - at least not that they could tell. Their bones knew, though, yearned for the metamorphosis they could no longer make, and chafed at the glory and power of the dovah above them. Even the eight dovhahdrim that had come across the seas lost themselves; they fell into sorrow, madness, and tyranny under the sorrow-yoke of their eternal cusp. And in this land of sorrow and separation where the dov could not grow, is it any surprise that they were eventually overthrown? That it was Alduin and his cadre against whom the kendoval muz fought is only incidental; any dovah would have done the same, to such ungrateful subjects, to mortals who could not even remember whence sprang their resentments.

So. You overthrew your overlords; you threw off long millenia of aspiration and instead forced the tragedy of your eternal mortality down the throats of dovah in their own Voice. And you were successful; the dov dwindled, and even Alduin himself choked on your bitter cup.

Ahem. Wrong colours. Use the CMYK pattern.

I like it. I like it a lot. So the Blades = forced subgradiation?


OMG. So Atmora was a Anuic stasis project? *initate squeeing

Even more squee-worthy: If this is the case, then the war of the Ehlnofey was a war fought entirely by dragons against eachother.

You're welcome.

But of course. Why would the Ka Po Tun wish to become them otherwise?