[WYatt REed]

This most certainly isn't the stupidest question I have ever seen on these forums, your in the clear mate!

[Dona BlackHeart]

Well, it's been a few hours since I returned to the world of Bashed Patches, and my crash frequency has increased about ten-fold. Prior to the Bashed Patch I created (while participating in this thread), I was running a Merged Patch and MasterUpdate in FO3. With a Merged Patch, I would crash, maybe, once every one to two hours. With the Bashed Patch, I effectively crash every other time I save, or zone, or do pretty much anything. I crash, approximately, every 10 minutes.

I would really like to continue using the Bashed Patch. It gets high-praise as the thing that saved Oblivion's modding scene, and people in this thread acknowledge that it's the best way to do things. Why is it not working for me?

Some more questions:

1. I have sorted Garybash to display my mods by Load Order. My mods are sorted by FO3's BOSS. However, when I run FOMM to compare load order between it and Garybash, the FOMM load order is completely fubared with respect to the Garybash load order. For example, amongst other things, two .ESM files show up near the bottom in FOMM, when they should clearly be at the top of the list (and are at the top in Garybash). Why is this? Does it matter (see question two)?

2. I currently run the game through Garybash, by clicking the Pipboy icon in the bottom left to launch FO3+FOSE. Should I be running the game through FOMM? Does it make a difference, given that the load orders are wildly different?

I looked at Psymon's mod cleaning tips, and frankly, I don't think I'm prepared to go through that as a layperson. I just want my game to run as "smoothly" as it did when using a Merged Patch. One thing I did when creating this Bashed Patch is I restored all my .ESPs using MasterRestore, because MasterUpdate makes them all .ESMs. Could this have "tainted" the .ESPs somehow in Garybash? Should I reinstall all my mods with their fresh .ESPs?

Thanks for any help.

For some reason the latest version of Gary Bash is not launching FOSE when I use Bash to start the game - http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1079607-relz-garybash/page__view__findpost__p__16116209.

That may be the case with you as well, but I can't be sure by this information. Do you use Darn UI? If so after the game loads and you hover your mouse pointer over the bottom left of the main menu screen it should give a read out of what version of Darn and whether FOSE is active. If not then start the game with the FOSE loader only. I make a shortcut to the FOSE loader and have it on an app launcher on my vista sidebar.

The point about FOMM and Bash not agreeing I think is important. I've seen that with mine as well. Can't recall how I fixed that except to adjust both until satisfied making sure that Bash is the last one you adjust. It could also be that you have bash set to lock times and that is OK to do if you never use FOMM - if you do then turn that off. Also I'd close FOMM when adjusting load order in Bash - bash can auto adjust when things are shifted, but I don't think FOMM can.

As for Mod cleaning - I would consider that an intermediate level mod user skill. Your using Bash which also is at that level - you can totally handle that. http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/TES4Edit_Cleaning_Guide I know for it and http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes4Mod:Tes4Edit#Cleaning_a_Dirty_Plugin. Just open up a non essential mod (or even find one you don't care at all about). Then follow the simpler tutorial:
1. Open only that mod in FO3edit
2. Run the filter as shown in the screenshot.
3. Then remove identical to master records.
4. Then undelete deletions.
5. Save cleaned plugin.

Again - don't clean overhauls (such as MMM, FWE - or UFP).
Don't clean esp that have other esp as masters.
Clean from the top down (esm first then esp).

I've only been around for a few small years but mod cleaning goes all the way back to morrowind with this game engine arch - it is not something out of left field - it is just that with F3 people have somehow not caught up to this as common practice as it is with Oblivion or or Morrowind. Most of the regular forum goers on the Oblivion forums know to clean their mods and even at that there are mods released daily that still need it. It is even described in Miax's http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=8629 so it is by far only 'my thing.'

As for crashing - I can't recall seeing your load order. If indeed the load order is not being messed with by lock times/FOMM then perhaps you are having conflcits.

Masterupdate just sets a flag in each esp that turns it into an esm. No worries about them being ruined. A few modders mod for masterupdate though - tarrant being one. I think he recommends using his Phalynx only with masterupdate. Does your character have companions?

Another option is to create the bashed patch then rerun masterupdate - if you have no issues with masterupdate.

But I've also been able to identify mods that I absolutely cannot use in my load order - no matter what cleaning, masterupdating, load order finagling I do. Mods like Busworld, 1+1=1, Molerat maze, Arefu Expanded, Rockville, Shady Sands, and it is beginning to look like the Foundation might make this list too. They might work in some load orders but not mine. So what is your load order?

[^_^]

Click the spoiler to see my BOSS-F generated load order. BOSS-F sorts all but four mods for me automatically, the exceptions being BA_WRP (a recycling mod), the brand new Powered Power Armor and its FWE patch, and Xepha's Fog addon to Dynamic Weather. I just manually place these four in spots that, uh... "make sense."

This is my Garybash generated load order report:

Spoiler

* 00  Fallout3.esm* 01  Anchorage.esm* 02  ThePitt.esm* 03  BrokenSteel.esm* 04  PointLookout.esm* 05  Zeta.esm* 06  Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch.esm  [Version 1.2.0]* 07  Project Beauty.esm* 08  CRAFT.esm* 09  CALIBR.esm  [Version 1.3]* 0A  xCALIBR.esm* 0B  FO3 Wanderers Edition - Main File.esm* 0C  Mart's Mutant Mod.esm* 0D  Enhanced Weather - Rain and Snow.esm* 0E  StreetLights.esm* 0F  Xepha's Dynamic Weather.esm* 10  Impervious Power Armour.esm* 11  Error Correction.esp* ++  Error Correction - All Transparency & Trees.esp* 12  Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Operation Anchorage.esp  [Version 1.2.0]* 13  Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - The Pitt.esp  [Version 1.2.0]* 14  Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Broken Steel.esp  [Version 1.2.0]* 15  Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Point Lookout.esp  [Version 1.2.0]* 16  Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Mothership Zeta.esp  [Version 1.2.0]* 17  BenTweaks-FO3.esp* 18  BenTweaks-OAE.esp* 19  BenTweaks-TPE.esp* 1A  BenTweaks-BSE.esp* 1B  BenTweaks-PLE.esp* 1C  BenTweaks-MZE.esp* 1D  FireLightFix.esp* **  Project Beauty- Broken Steel.esp* **  Project Beauty- Point Lookout.esp* 1E  DarNifiedUIF3.esp* 1F  StreetLights - Wasteland.esp* 20  CASM.esp* 21  Crosshair Toggle.esp* 22  CRAFT - Activation Perk.esp* 23  RobCo Universal Battery Charger Kit - Zeta.esp* 24  BlackWolf Backpack.esp* ++  BlackWolf Backpack - Vanilla Big Guns Fix.esp* ++  BlackWolf Backpack - Anchorage Gauss Rifle Fix.esp* ++  BlackWolf Backpack - Zeta Drone Cannon Fix.esp* 25  SS OTS Camera FOSE.esp* 26  MoreMapMarkers.esp* 27  BusworldV1.05d.esp* 28  FO3 Wanderers Edition - Main File.esp* 29  FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Anchorage.esp* 2A  FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC The Pitt.esp* 2B  FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Broken Steel.esp* 2C  FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Point Lookout.esp* 2D  FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Mothership Zeta.esp* 2E  FO3 Wanderers Edition - UFP Support.esp* 2F  FO3 Wanderers Edition - Followers Enhanced (BrokenSteel).esp* ++  FO3 Wanderers Edition - Optional Restore Tracers (automatics only).esp* ++  FO3 Wanderers Edition - Project Beauty (Followers Enhanced).esp* ++  FixedEyeglasses.esp* 30  Tailor Maid.esp* 31  Tailor Maid Anchorage.esp* 32  Tailor Maid PITT.esp* 33  Tailor Maid Brokensteel.esp* 34  Tailor Maid ZETA.esp* 35  Tailor Maid Black Retex.esp* ++  Echo_UseBothGloves.esp* 36  Dogmeat Leather Armor - CRAFT.esp* 37  Yoko'sOutfits.esp* 38  Micro Bikini and more recolors.esp* 39  Persona_and_Secret.esp* 3A  AsharasBatmanItems.esp* 3B  xCALIBRmunitions.esp* 3C  xCALIBRmunitions_FOSEnhancements.esp* 3D  EVE.esp* ++  EVE - FWE Master Release (Follower Enhanced).esp* 3E  EVE Operation Anchorage.esp* ++  EVE Anchorage - FWE DLC Anchorage.esp* 3F  Mart's Mutant Mod.esp* **  Mart's Mutant Mod - Project Beauty.esp* 40  Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Anchorage.esp* 41  Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC The Pitt.esp* 42  Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Broken Steel.esp* ++  Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Point Lookout.esp* 43  Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Zeta.esp* 44  Mart's Mutant Mod - FWE Master Release.esp* ++  Mart's Mutant Mod - Project Beauty + FWE.esp* 45  PowerOfTheAtom_FOOKandFWE.esp* 46  Rude Awakening.esp* ++  Rude Awakening - MMM.esp* 47  1PipboyPDA.esp* 48  Directional PipLight.esp* 49  dD-Less Blood Time, Larger Blood.esp* 4A  FO3 Wanderers Edition - More Gore.esp* 4B  FO3 Wanderers Edition - More Gore Zeta.esp* 4C  FO3 Wanderers Edition - More Gore The Pitt.esp* 4D  FO3 Wanderers Edition - More Gore PointLookout.esp* 4E  Enhanced Weather - Rain and Snow in Fallout.esp* 4F  Enhanced Weather - Weather Sounds in Interiors.esp* 50  Enhanced Weather - Sneak Bonus during Storms.esp* 51  megalight.esp* 52  Sleep in any bed.esp* 53  Clothed Sarah Lyons - Sleepwear.esp* 54  Realistic Interior Lighting.esp* 55  Realistic Interior Lighting - OA.esp* 56  Realistic Interior Lighting - BS.esp* 57  Xepha's Dynamic Weather - Main.esp* 58  Xepha's Dynamic Weather - Anchorage.esp* 59  Xepha's Dynamic Weather - The Pitt.esp* 5A  Xepha's Dynamic Weather - Broken Steel.esp* 5B  Xepha's Dynamic Weather - Point Lookout.esp* ++  Xepha's Dynamic Weather - Fog Edition (dbleja's NEE - Anchorage).esp* ++  Xepha's Dynamic Weather - Darker Water.esp* 5C  Xepha's Dynamic Weather - Experimental Green Tint Remover.esp* 5D  Dragonskin Tactical Outfit.esp* 5E  DragonskinBonusPack.esp* 5F  =Medium+Very Far=DOF1.1.esp* 60  V.A.T.S. Depth of Field v1.0.esp* 61  CanterburyCommonsInteriors.esp* 62  ME2_Inferno Armor.esp* 63  Colossus Headgear.esp* ++  Weld - Badge and Hat.esp* 64  Powered Power Armor.esp* ++  PPA - FWE.esp* 65  BA_WRM.esp* 66  FO3 Wanderers Edition - Optional VATS Halftime.esp* 67  dD-More Gore-BrokenSteel.esp* 68  3EFwandererGear.esp* 69  PersonalVertibird.esp* 6A  Bikini_Armor_TYPE3.esp* 6B  AsharasLightningItems.esp* 6C  FatherandNun.esp* 6D  FrenchMaid.esp* 6E  AMR-B04.esp* ++  xCALIBR_override_FWE5.esp* 6F  Bashed Patch, 0.esp

This is my FOMM generated load order report (note the .esms that appear at the bottom). Also, a lot of mods are unchecked (I assume this isn't important since the unchecked mods are the ones merged in Bashed Patch, 01.esp through Garybash):

Spoiler

Mod load order report! Warning: current load order template contains 19 duplicate entriesFallout3.esm  Masterlist Information: $Revision$, $Date$, $LastChangedBy$Anchorage.esmThePitt.esmBrokenSteel.esmPointLookout.esmZeta.esmUnofficial Fallout 3 Patch.esmProject Beauty.esm* This mod does not exist in the current templateCRAFT.esmCALIBR.esmxCALIBR.esm* This mod does not exist in the current templateFO3 Wanderers Edition - Main File.esmMart's Mutant Mod.esmEnhanced Weather - Rain and Snow.esmStreetLights.esmError Correction.esp* This mod does not exist in the current templateError Correction - All Transparency & Trees.esp (Inactive)* This mod does not exist in the current templateUnofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Operation Anchorage.espUnofficial Fallout 3 Patch - The Pitt.espUnofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Broken Steel.espUnofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Point Lookout.espUnofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Mothership Zeta.espBenTweaks-FO3.esp* This mod does not exist in the current templateBenTweaks-OAE.esp* This mod does not exist in the current templateBenTweaks-TPE.esp* This mod does not exist in the current templateBenTweaks-BSE.esp* This mod does not exist in the current templateBenTweaks-PLE.esp* This mod does not exist in the current templateBenTweaks-MZE.esp* This mod does not exist in the current templateFireLightFix.espProject Beauty- Broken Steel.esp (Inactive)Project Beauty- Point Lookout.esp (Inactive)DarNifiedUIF3.espStreetLights - Wasteland.espCASM.espCrosshair Toggle.esp* This mod does not exist in the current templateCRAFT - Activation Perk.espRobCo Universal Battery Charger Kit - Zeta.esp* This mod does not exist in the current templateBlackWolf Backpack.espBlackWolf Backpack - Vanilla Big Guns Fix.esp (Inactive)BlackWolf Backpack - Anchorage Gauss Rifle Fix.esp (Inactive)BlackWolf Backpack - Zeta Drone Cannon Fix.esp (Inactive)SS OTS Camera FOSE.espMoreMapMarkers.espBusworldV1.05d.espFO3 Wanderers Edition - Main File.espFO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Anchorage.espFO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC The Pitt.espFO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Broken Steel.esp* The current load order of this mod does not match the current templateFO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Point Lookout.esp* The current load order of this mod does not match the current templateFO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Mothership Zeta.esp* The current load order of this mod does not match the current templateFO3 Wanderers Edition - UFP Support.espFO3 Wanderers Edition - Followers Enhanced (BrokenSteel).espFO3 Wanderers Edition - Optional Restore Tracers (automatics only).esp (Inactive)FO3 Wanderers Edition - Project Beauty (Followers Enhanced).esp (Inactive)* This mod does not exist in the current templateTailor Maid.espFixedEyeglasses.esp (Inactive)* This mod does not exist in the current templateTailor Maid Anchorage.espTailor Maid PITT.espTailor Maid Brokensteel.espTailor Maid ZETA.espTailor Maid Black Retex.esp* This mod does not exist in the current templateEcho_UseBothGloves.esp (Inactive)* This mod does not exist in the current templateDogmeat Leather Armor - CRAFT.espYoko'sOutfits.esp* This mod does not exist in the current templateMicro Bikini and more recolors.esp* This mod does not exist in the current templatePersona_and_Secret.esp* This mod does not exist in the current templateAsharasBatmanItems.esp* The current load order of this mod does not match the current templatexCALIBRmunitions.esp* This mod does not exist in the current templatexCALIBRmunitions_FOSEnhancements.esp* This mod does not exist in the current templateEVE.espEVE - FWE Master Release (Follower Enhanced).esp (Inactive)EVE Operation Anchorage.espEVE Anchorage - FWE DLC Anchorage.esp (Inactive)Mart's Mutant Mod.espMart's Mutant Mod - Project Beauty.esp (Inactive)* This mod does not exist in the current templateMart's Mutant Mod - DLC Anchorage.espMart's Mutant Mod - DLC The Pitt.espMart's Mutant Mod - DLC Broken Steel.espMart's Mutant Mod - DLC Point Lookout.esp (Inactive)Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Zeta.espMart's Mutant Mod - FWE Master Release.espMart's Mutant Mod - Project Beauty + FWE.esp (Inactive)* This mod does not exist in the current templatePowerOfTheAtom_FOOKandFWE.esp* This mod does not exist in the current templateRude Awakening.esp* This mod does not exist in the current templateRude Awakening - MMM.esp (Inactive)* This mod does not exist in the current template1PipboyPDA.espDirectional PipLight.esp* This mod does not exist in the current templatedD-Less Blood Time, Larger Blood.espFO3 Wanderers Edition - More Gore.espFO3 Wanderers Edition - More Gore Zeta.espFO3 Wanderers Edition - More Gore The Pitt.espFO3 Wanderers Edition - More Gore PointLookout.espEnhanced Weather - Rain and Snow in Fallout.espEnhanced Weather - Weather Sounds in Interiors.espEnhanced Weather - Sneak Bonus during Storms.espmegalight.espSleep in any bed.esp* This mod does not exist in the current templateClothed Sarah Lyons - Sleepwear.esp* This mod does not exist in the current templateRealistic Interior Lighting.esp* The current load order of this mod does not match the current templateRealistic Interior Lighting - OA.esp* The current load order of this mod does not match the current templateRealistic Interior Lighting - BS.esp* The current load order of this mod does not match the current templateXepha's Dynamic Weather - Main.esp! This plugin depends on master 'xepha's dynamic weather.esm', which is loading after it in the load order* This mod does not exist in the current templateXepha's Dynamic Weather - Anchorage.esp! This plugin depends on master 'xepha's dynamic weather.esm', which is loading after it in the load order* This mod does not exist in the current templateXepha's Dynamic Weather - The Pitt.esp! This plugin depends on master 'xepha's dynamic weather.esm', which is loading after it in the load order* This mod does not exist in the current templateXepha's Dynamic Weather - Broken Steel.esp! This plugin depends on master 'xepha's dynamic weather.esm', which is loading after it in the load order* This mod does not exist in the current templateXepha's Dynamic Weather - Point Lookout.esp! This plugin depends on master 'xepha's dynamic weather.esm', which is loading after it in the load order* This mod does not exist in the current templateXepha's Dynamic Weather - Fog Edition (dbleja's NEE - Anchorage).esp (Inactive)* This mod does not exist in the current templateXepha's Dynamic Weather - Darker Water.esp (Inactive)* This mod does not exist in the current templateXepha's Dynamic Weather - Experimental Green Tint Remover.esp! This plugin depends on master 'xepha's dynamic weather.esm', which is loading after it in the load order* This mod does not exist in the current templateDragonskin Tactical Outfit.esp* The current load order of this mod does not match the current templateDragonskinBonusPack.esp* The current load order of this mod does not match the current template=Medium+Very Far=DOF1.1.esp* This mod does not exist in the current templateV.A.T.S. Depth of Field v1.0.esp* This mod does not exist in the current templateCanterburyCommonsInteriors.esp* This mod does not exist in the current templateME2_Inferno Armor.esp* This mod does not exist in the current templateColossus Headgear.esp* This mod does not exist in the current templateWeld - Badge and Hat.esp (Inactive)* This mod does not exist in the current templatePowered Power Armor.esp* This mod does not exist in the current templatePPA - FWE.esp (Inactive)* This mod does not exist in the current templateXepha's Dynamic Weather.esm* This mod does not exist in the current templateBA_WRM.esp* This mod does not exist in the current templateFO3 Wanderers Edition - Optional VATS Halftime.esp* The current load order of this mod does not match the current templatedD-More Gore-BrokenSteel.esp* The current load order of this mod does not match the current template3EFwandererGear.esp* This mod does not exist in the current templatePersonalVertibird.esp* This mod does not exist in the current templateBikini_Armor_TYPE3.esp* This mod does not exist in the current templateAsharasLightningItems.esp* This mod does not exist in the current templateFatherandNun.esp* This mod does not exist in the current templateFrenchMaid.esp* This mod does not exist in the current templateAMR-B04.esp* This mod does not exist in the current templatexCALIBR_override_FWE5.esp (Inactive)* This mod does not exist in the current templateBashed Patch, 0.espImpervious Power Armour.esm* This mod does not exist in the current templateThe order that the current template suggests is as follows:fallout3.esmanchorage.esmthepitt.esmbrokensteel.esmpointlookout.esmzeta.esmunofficial fallout 3 patch.esmproject beauty.esmcraft.esmcalibr.esmxcalibr.esmfo3 wanderers edition - main file.esmmart's mutant mod.esmenhanced weather - rain and snow.esmstreetlights.esmerror correction.esperror correction - all transparency & trees.espunofficial fallout 3 patch - operation anchorage.espunofficial fallout 3 patch - the pitt.espunofficial fallout 3 patch - broken steel.espunofficial fallout 3 patch - point lookout.espunofficial fallout 3 patch - mothership zeta.espbentweaks-fo3.espbentweaks-oae.espbentweaks-tpe.espbentweaks-bse.espbentweaks-ple.espbentweaks-mze.espfirelightfix.espproject beauty- broken steel.espproject beauty- point lookout.espdarnifieduif3.espstreetlights - wasteland.esprealistic interior lighting.esprealistic interior lighting - bs.espxepha's dynamic weather - main.espxepha's dynamic weather - anchorage.espxepha's dynamic weather - the pitt.espxepha's dynamic weather - broken steel.espxepha's dynamic weather - point lookout.espxepha's dynamic weather - fog edition (dbleja's nee - anchorage).espxepha's dynamic weather - darker water.espxepha's dynamic weather - experimental green tint remover.esprealistic interior lighting - oa.espcasm.espcrosshair toggle.espcraft - activation perk.esprobco universal battery charger kit - zeta.espblackwolf backpack.espblackwolf backpack - vanilla big guns fix.espblackwolf backpack - anchorage gauss rifle fix.espblackwolf backpack - zeta drone cannon fix.espss ots camera fose.espmoremapmarkers.espbusworldv1.05d.espfo3 wanderers edition - main file.espfo3 wanderers edition - dlc anchorage.espfo3 wanderers edition - dlc broken steel.espfo3 wanderers edition - dlc mothership zeta.espfo3 wanderers edition - dlc point lookout.espfo3 wanderers edition - dlc the pitt.espfo3 wanderers edition - ufp support.espfo3 wanderers edition - followers enhanced (brokensteel).espfo3 wanderers edition - optional vats halftime.espfo3 wanderers edition - optional restore tracers (automatics only).espfo3 wanderers edition - project beauty (followers enhanced).esptailor maid.espfixedeyeglasses.esptailor maid anchorage.esptailor maid pitt.esptailor maid brokensteel.esptailor maid zeta.esptailor maid black retex.especho_usebothgloves.espasharasbatmanitems.espxcalibrmunitions.espxcalibrmunitions_fosenhancements.espdragonskin tactical outfit.espdragonskinbonuspack.esp=medium+very far=dof1.1.espv.a.t.s. depth of field v1.0.espcanterburycommonsinteriors.espme2_inferno armor.espcolossus headgear.espweld - badge and hat.esppowered power armor.espppa - fwe.espxepha's dynamic weather.esmba_wrm.espdogmeat leather armor - craft.espyoko'soutfits.espmicro bikini and more recolors.esppersona_and_secret.espeve.espeve - fwe master release (follower enhanced).espeve operation anchorage.espeve anchorage - fwe dlc anchorage.espmart's mutant mod.espmart's mutant mod - project beauty.espmart's mutant mod - dlc anchorage.espmart's mutant mod - dlc the pitt.espmart's mutant mod - dlc broken steel.espmart's mutant mod - dlc point lookout.espmart's mutant mod - dlc zeta.espmart's mutant mod - fwe master release.espmart's mutant mod - project beauty + fwe.esppoweroftheatom_fookandfwe.esprude awakening.esprude awakening - mmm.esp1pipboypda.espdirectional piplight.espdd-less blood time, larger blood.espdd-more gore-brokensteel.esp3efwanderergear.esppersonalvertibird.espbikini_armor_type3.espasharaslightningitems.espfatherandnun.espfrenchmaid.espamr-b04.espxcalibr_override_fwe5.espfo3 wanderers edition - more gore.espfo3 wanderers edition - more gore zeta.espfo3 wanderers edition - more gore the pitt.espfo3 wanderers edition - more gore pointlookout.espenhanced weather - rain and snow in fallout.espenhanced weather - weather sounds in interiors.espenhanced weather - sneak bonus during storms.espmegalight.espsleep in any bed.espclothed sarah lyons - sleepwear.espbashed patch, 0.espimpervious power armour.esm

[/code]

For some reason the latest version of Gary Bash is not launching FOSE when I use Bash to start the game - I reported that.

That may be the case with you as well, but I can't be sure by this information. Do you use Darn UI? If so after the game loads and you hover your mouse pointer over the bottom left of the main menu screen it should give a read out of what version of Darn and whether FOSE is active. If not then start the game with the FOSE loader only. I make a shortcut to the FOSE loader and have it on an app launcher on my vista sidebar.

I do use Darn UI. Also, I just launched FO3+FOSE through Garybash, mousedover the Pipboy icon in the lower left corner, and it reports that I'm "Powered by FOSE 1.2 b2" which is what it should be. So, I don't believe I'm running into that issue.

The point about FOMM and Bash not agreeing I think is important. I've seen that with mine as well. Can't recall how I fixed that except to adjust both until satisfied making sure that Bash is the last one you adjust. It could also be that you have bash set to lock times and that is OK to do if you never use FOMM - if you do then turn that off. Also I'd close FOMM when adjusting load order in Bash - bash can auto adjust when things are shifted, but I don't think FOMM can.

You were correct: Bash was set to Lock Times. I've unchecked that and will re-sort to see if I can get them to both agree.
EDIT: Blah, just did that and re-sorted. Garybash and FOMM still do not agree. I'll do what you suggest and see if I can get them to agree.
EDIT 2: Ok, both my Bash and FOMM load orders agree now.
EDIT 3: Game still crashes when hitting quicksave with CASM.

Masterupdate just sets a flag in each esp that turns it into an esm. No worries about them being ruined. A few modders mod for masterupdate though - tarrant being one. I think he recommends using his Phalynx only with masterupdate. Does your character have companions?

I was using Phalanx for a time, but I found it caused too many crashes for me so I uninstalled it (as per its instructions), and returned to using Followers Enhanced (an optional component of FWE).

As always, thanks for your informative replies. I'll look into using FO3Edit to clean a minor .esp (maybe a clothing one or something) using the simple guide you provided.

[evelina c]

There are a quite a few mods I do not recognize the fixes and such especially. What is error correction and benTweaks?

Keep in mind that the BOSS list available through FOMM is only updated by the FOMM team and the BOSS list from the BOSS google code site will be more updated. Certainly I see some FWE stuff out of order. Are all those mods loaded after the Xepha's whether because they are unrecognized by BOSS?

Here is my LO:

Spoiler

Active Mod Files:00  fallout3.esm01  anchorage.esm02  thepitt.esm03  brokensteel.esm04  pointlookout.esm05  Destruction.esm06  zeta.esm07  unofficial fallout 3 patch.esm  [Version 1.2.0]08  project beauty.esm09  pointlookout-followersgettogo.esm  [Version 2.]0A  Companion Core.esm0B  Companion Share & Recruit.esm0C  RobCo Certified v2.esm0D  Wasteland Whisperer v2.esm0E  craft.esm0F  calibr.esm  [Version 1.3]10  xcalibr.esm11  refurbishes [all].esm12  fo3 wanderers edition - main file.esm13  mart's mutant mod.esm14  mmzombiecemetery.esm15  cubeexperimental (en).esm16  dcinteriors_comboedition.esm17  enhanced weather - rain and snow.esm18  streetlights.esm19  xepha's dynamic weather.esm1A  unofficial fallout 3 patch - operation anchorage.esp  [Version 1.2.0]1B  unofficial fallout 3 patch - the pitt.esp  [Version 1.2.0]1C  unofficial fallout 3 patch - broken steel.esp  [Version 1.2.0]1D  unofficial fallout 3 patch - point lookout.esp  [Version 1.2.0]1E  unofficial fallout 3 patch - mothership zeta.esp  [Version 1.2.0]1F  darnifieduif3.esp**  Project Beauty- Broken Steel.esp**  Project Beauty- Point Lookout.esp20  firelightfix.esp21  streetlights - wasteland.esp22  craft - activation perk.esp23  craft - energyammo.esp24  tincancrafting.esp  [Version 2.0]25  calibrxmerchant.esp++  InverseCombatKnife.esp26  more hotkeys.esp27  princess better prompts v1pt1.esp28  zumbs'_overhauled_real_time_security.esp++  Zombie Sounds V2.esp++  GeneratorSound.esp29  moshman's wasteland ambiance.esp2A  galaxynewsradio100[m].esp2B  ghostradio.esp2C  mutantradio.esp2D  lookoutradio.esp2E  radiotenpenny.esp2F  conelrad 640-1240.esp30  existence2.0.esp31  radioblues.esp32  war_radio.esp33  people_radio.esp34  invasionradio.esp35  kbatradio.esp36  vtap25.esp37  radio stutter fix.esp38  radiohotkey.esp39  radiohotkey_radiobluesaddon.esp3A  upp - original perks.esp3B  upp - pack 1.esp3C  upp - pack 2.esp3D  upp - experience perks.esp3E  upp  - quest perks.esp3F  combat style perks.esp40  PreWar Book Titles and Perks.esp41  notsofast.esp42  HeirApparent.esp43  merc.esp44  tubrrcompound.esp45  bospatrols.esp46  markb50k_wasteland_patrols.esp47  echo_batterycharger.esp48  householdwaterpurifier.esp49  blackwolf backpack.esp4A  gunnysack.esp  [Version 1.3]4B  falloutfood.esp4C  stealth kills enabled.esp++  Stealth Kills Enabled - Pitt Compatibility.esp4D  1animated nightvision goggles.esp4E  ss ots camera fose.esp4F  ZoomReworked.esp50  directional piplight hdr.esp51  motorcycleremake.esp52  expanded megaton house v3.esp53  maintenanceshed.esp  [Version 1.3]54  moremapmarkers.esp55  treasure maps_underground.esp56  treasure maps_secrets of the wasteland.esp57  treasure maps_bobblehead edition.esp58  treasure maps_a fist full of caps.esp59  greenerworld.esp++  Destruction - Main.esp5A  Destruction - Main - Statics.esp++  Destruction - DLC.esp5B  Destruction - DLC - Statics.esp5C  mtc wasteland travellers.esp5D  cliff's_residences of dc - player version.esp5E  dcinteriors_dlc_collectables.esp5F  rivet city realignment.esp60  movinonup3.0.esp61  canterburycommonsinteriors.esp62  CantaburyCommonsGuards.esp63  maxlevelworkaround-hp-bs.esp64  wastelandmastery.esp65  skillcheck.esp66  fo3 wanderers edition - main file.esp67  fo3 wanderers edition - dlc anchorage.esp68  fo3 wanderers edition - dlc the pitt.esp69  fo3 wanderers edition - dlc broken steel.esp6A  fo3 wanderers edition - dlc point lookout.esp6B  fo3 wanderers edition - dlc mothership zeta.esp6C  fo3 wanderers edition - followers enhanced (brokensteel).esp6D  fo3 wanderers edition - alternate travel.esp6E  fo3 wanderers edition - ufp support.esp6F  fo3 wanderers edition - optional restore tracers.esp70  fo3 wanderers edition - optional vats realtime.esp71  fo3 wanderers edition - optional worn weapons.esp++  FO3 Wanderers Edition - Project Beauty.esp++  FO3 Wanderers Edition - Project Beauty (Followers Enhanced).esp72  FO3 Quest Patch - FWE + BS.esp73  weaponmodkits.esp74  weaponmodkits - fwe master release.esp++  WeaponModKits - FWE Optional Worn Weapons.esp75  weaponmodkits - operationanchorage.esp76  weaponmodkits - thepitt.esp77  weaponmodkits - brokensteel.esp78  weaponmodkits - pointlookout.esp79  weaponmodkits - zeta.esp++  Echo_UseBothGloves.esp7A  jmschematics - craft.esp7B  dragonskin tactical outfit.esp7C  dragonskinbonuspack.esp++  DTOForFWE.esp7D  zl-svd-calibr.esp++  SVDForFWE.esp7E  zl-acr.esp++  ACRForFWE.esp7F  tactical weapons by grs frederyck.esp80  xcalibrmunitions.esp++  frederyck+FWE+xCALIBR.esp81  xcalibrmunitions_fosenhancements.esp82  stealthboy recon armor - craft.esp83  calibr ammo schematics - craft.esp84  craft improvised weaponry.esp85  craft improvised weaponry - unmodeled.esp86  realistic death physics.esp87  burnification.esp88  eve.esp89  eve operation anchorage.esp8A  eve - fwe master release.esp++  EVE - FWE Master Release (Follower Enhanced).esp++  EVE Anchorage - FWE DLC Anchorage.esp++  EVE - FWE with WeaponModKits.esp8B  phig_steadyaim.esp8C  dlm_ffoutcastsquest(fweed).esp++  DLM_FFOutcastsQuest_Override-BS.esp++  FalloutFoods - FWE Master Release.esp++  ThePitt-NoFireFollowers.esp8D  RobCo Certified v2 Zeta Addon.esp8E  RobCo Certified v2 Mechanist's Edition.esp8F  Wasteland Whisperer v2 Broken Steel Addon.esp90  Companion Core DLC Addon.esp91  Mysteriouswoman_corsetntrousers.esp92  DogmeatEssentialModv1.2.esp93  Dogmeat Leather Armor - CRAFT.esp94  phalanx-obedient-dogmeat.esp95  Move-Dogmeat.esp++  DogmeatStealth.esp96  responsive kill reactions.esp  [Version 1.1]97  immersivehealth.esp98  mart's mutant mod.esp**  Mart's Mutant Mod - Project Beauty.esp99  mart's mutant mod - dlc anchorage.esp9A  mart's mutant mod - dlc the pitt.esp9B  mart's mutant mod - dlc broken steel.esp++  Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Point Lookout.esp9C  mart's mutant mod - dlc zeta.esp9D  mart's mutant mod - zombie cementery.esp9E  s.t.a.l.k.e.r. mutants[addon for mmm].esp++  Mart's Mutant Mod - Dynamic Player Scaling.esp9F  mart's mutant mod - fwe master release.esp++  Mart's Mutant Mod - Project Beauty + FWE.esp++  T3T_MiscItemIcons.espA0  Gifts4Kids.espA1  tubunarfwe.esp++  xCALIBR_override_FWE5.esp++  FWE+WMK_weapons_xCALIBRified.espA2  Attentater's Wasteland Economy.espA3  enhanced weather - rainbows.espA4  enhanced weather - weather sounds in interiors.espA5  realistic interior lighting.espA6  realistic interior lighting - oa.espA7  realistic interior lighting - bs.esp++  PiPBoy Light Range x4.esp++  PiPBoy Yellow Light.espA8  megalight.espA9  xepha's dynamic weather - main.espAA  xepha's dynamic weather - anchorage.espAB  xepha's dynamic weather - the pitt.espAC  xepha's dynamic weather - broken steel.espAD  xepha's dynamic weather - point lookout.espAE  xepha's dynamic weather - experimental green tint remover.espAF  xepha's dynamic weather - rain (oa).esp++  Xepha's Dynamic Weather - Darker Water.espB0  night time sneak boost.espB1  =Medium+Far=DOF1.1.espB2  Bashed Patch, 0.esp

I've never used CASM since my game doesn't crash I just make hard saves all the time.

Does it crash when you make hard saves (through menu)?

Are you using skyranger's Stutter Remover? If you are try removing that temporarily (I create an extra folder in OBSE/plugins called temp and just move plugins into that when I want to test without).

Ohh and there is Busworld!!! Get that out of there. http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1097761-relz-busworld-better-english-translation/page__view__findpost__p__16038360 even the original author admits it is brimming with issues.

[Jade Barnes-Mackey]

There are a quite a few mods I do not recognize the fixes and such especially. What is error correction and benTweaks?

http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=11745 - "Error correction is similar to Quarn's unofficial patch in that it fixes bugs in FO3. Currently over 1000 items have been changed (although I admit some are judgement calls on my part"
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=10318 - "This mod fixes and tweaks some things in Fallout 3 and it's DLCs."

Keep in mind that the BOSS list available through FOMM is only updated by the FOMM team and the BOSS list from the BOSS google code site will be more updated. Certainly I see some FWE stuff out of order. Are all those mods loaded after the Xepha's whether because they are unrecognized by BOSS?

I use the masterlist from the BOSS team that gets posted in the BOSS thread on this forum. It sorts all but 4 of my addons. BOSS recognizes xCALIBR_override_FWE5.esp and sorts it last, as the author of the patch insists it be sorted last. BOSS doesn't currently sort the newly released Powered Power Armor.esp and PPA - FWE.esp (this is a compatibility patch for FWE and needs to be loaded after Powered Power Armor.esp), so I've just placed them near the bottom. Powered Power Armor.esp must load after Project Beauty, as per the author's instructions.

Does it crash when you make hard saves (through menu)?

Sometimes. I'm finding that I have to load a saved game twice (I know it sounds crazy) in order for it to not crash immediately after I quicksave or do a hard-save. If I load a savegame only once and then quicksave or hard-save, the game crashes. If I load a savegame twice, then switch zones/areas/fast-travel/whatever and then quicksave or hard-save, the game crashes. Something is fubared.

Are you using skyranger's Stutter Remover? If you are try removing that temporarily (I create an extra folder in OBSE/plugins called temp and just move plugins into that when I want to test without).

Nope, not using this addon. Only the ones listed in my LO.

Ohh and there is Busworld!!! Get that out of there. http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1097761-relz-busworld-better-english-translation/page__view__findpost__p__16038360 even the original author admits it is brimming with issues.

But... Pintocat's version is so awesome! His version of Busworld has not caused any crashes for me when I used a Merged Patch. I don't know if that's true of the Bashed Patch, because I haven't tried entering a bus since I returned to using a Bashed Patch last night (because I can't even save half the time).

[Jake Easom]

I use the masterlist from the BOSS team that gets posted in the BOSS thread on this forum. It sorts all but 4 of my addons. BOSS recognizes xCALIBR_override_FWE5.esp and sorts it last, as the author of the patch insists it be sorted last. BOSS doesn't currently sort the newly released Powered Power Armor.esp and PPA - FWE.esp (this is a compatibility patch for FWE and needs to be loaded after Powered Power Armor.esp), so I've just placed them near the bottom. Powered Power Armor.esp must load after Project Beauty, as per the author's instructions.



Sometimes. I'm finding that I have to load a saved game twice (I know it sounds crazy) in order for it to not crash immediately after I quicksave or do a hard-save. If I load a savegame only once and then quicksave or hard-save, the game crashes. If I load a savegame twice, then switch zones/areas/fast-travel/whatever and then quicksave or hard-save, the game crashes. Something is fubared.

But... Pintocat's version is so awesome! His version of Busworld has not caused any crashes for me when I used a Merged Patch. I don't know if that's true of the Bashed Patch, because I haven't tried entering a bus since I returned to using a Bashed Patch last night (because I can't even save half the time).

The authors of FWE are usually quick to point out that they don't even use the UFP as it has caused them problems, so I'd be hesitant to use those tweaks you linked.

At this point I would recommend doing testing with mods disabled. Make 10 saves in an interior without the intention of keeping those saves then disable all but the essential mods (overhauls) and slowly build up until you have a stable game - reactivate mods at about no more than 5 at a time and in logical groupings. After any reactivated group starts to crash then narrow the search down to specific mods. By testing I mean have the character do a bunch of things in different orders each time: Running from cell to cell, combat, dialogue, inventory management, buying things, fast travel, etc.

Like I said there are several mods that cause issues in my load order - the truth is they are all mods that would likely work in a vanilla load order - it is just that in combination with the mods that I favor more - they are the problem mods. So Busworld could very well work and I at one time even got the older version to work - at the expense of several mods that I liked more. I had a whole thread about my struggles - http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1022943-crashing-on-exit/.

So still there are mods I can't use and I still don't see masterupdate as solving them. Bashed patch is not going to be a magic fix either. I feel you pain though - I wish I had the discipline with Oblivion to not include one mod that caused any issues like I do with F3. I want Busworld to work, I want Arefu expanded, I want the Foundation to all work happy as clams next to each other.

http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=8886 is not a traditional esm/esp plugin - it is an FOSE plugin. Much more common to have script extender plugins in Oblivion (many more of them too). I will say that it and the Oblivion version are two fixes that really really do work.

With Oblivion there are a few things about saves that I got into the habit of. With Oblivion if you reloaded into the same cell you last died in it can cause problems. Some even recommend exiting the game completely and reloading it. I rarely do that. Another recommendation was to never use quick saves or autosaves. So, keeping the practice up I never used them with F3 - I only make saves by going to the main menu and doing it there.

Since you have reverted to master restore have you loaded the merged patch and see if the crashes persist?

Also with the power armor thing - for third party patches to overhauls still in development - I usually wait a week or two for others to be the test pilots. Let them mature a bit before jumping in. Certainly I don't jump into a mod to test it if my game is not stable already.

[Marquis T]

Since you have reverted to master restore have you loaded the merged patch and see if the crashes persist?

I have not reverted to MasterUpdate/Merged Patch yet. However, I'm strongly considering doing so, and soon. Since trying to join the sophisticated Bashed Patch crowd, I've had nothing but crashes and problems. Although Merged Patches and MasterUpdating ares said to be comparatively inelegant solutions, at least I was able to play the game, save, zone, etc., and really, that's what matters in the end.

Maybe as mods become more sophisticated and Bashed Patching becomes a necessity, I'll bother to learn the nuances and how to troubleshoot at some point (probably with a clean install and re-extracted mods). Right now though man, I just want to blow some Enclave to smithereens, and I can't.

Thanks for your patience and informative replies throughout this learning experience.

[helen buchan]

No I mean have you simply loaded the game with master restore and your old merged patch and see if it crashes then?

If you don't have master update set now and still have your merged patch then it should take no longer than 5 minutes to test that. Just trying to help you narrow down whether it is the lack of masterupdate esm status that causes the crashing or the presence of the bashed patch. Once that is determined then you know which way to go.

If it is the bashed patch and it has nothing to do with masterupdate then it is time to look at what is being imported into the bashed patch that is not being imported into merged patch that is messing things up.

If not for just yourself then others who could use the info and maybe improve upon Bash - or identify mods with issues.

Bash allows me to use Destruction - which I could never get to work with a merged patch, but that was implemented later due to exploration.

[RAww DInsaww]

If not for just yourself then others who could use the info and maybe improve upon Bash - or identify mods with issues.

Good point. The results of my meager attempts at testing are as follows:

FIRST attempt with Merged Patch ONLY, no MasterUpdate - FAIL
1. Loaded FOMM and checked/enabled all addons. Disabled Bashed Patch, 01.esp.
2. Loaded FO3Edit.exe and loaded all enabled addons from step 1.
3. Created a Merged Patch, titled Merged Patch.
4. Started FOMM, enabled Merged Patch.esp and launched FOSE (i.e. the game).
5. Chose my most recent saved game and loaded it.
6. Attempted a CASM quicksave (hotkey: F4). Game crashed immediately.

SECOND attempt with Merged Patch ONLY, no MasterUpdate - FAIL
1. Started FOMM and launched FOSE (i.e. the game).
2. Chose my most recent saved game and loaded it. This is the same save as in the first attempt.
3. Chose that same saved game and loaded it again (i.e. loaded the save twice.) Yes, I know this is crazy.
4. Attempted a CASM quicksave (hotkey: F4). Game did NOT crash.
5. Fast traveled to The Citadel and entered The Lab and approached Quartermaster Durga.
6. Waited 24 hours to re-populate Durga's inventory to check to see if the Powered Power Armor.esp mod's changes would take effect. They did.
7. Attempted a hard save. Game crashed immediately.

THIRD attempt with Merged Patch PLUS MasterUpdate - SUCCESS
1. Started MasterUpdate.exe and allowed it to run to completion.
2. Started FOMM and launched FOSE (i.e. the game).
3. Chose my most recent saved game and loaded it. Same save as in the first attempt.
4. Attempted a CASM quicksave (hotkey: F4). Game did NOT crash. This is the first time the game did NOT crash after only a single loading of a save. Things are looking up!
5. Fast traveled from to The Citadel and entered The Lab and approached Quartermaster Durga.
6. Waited 24 hours to re-populate Durga's inventory to check to see if the Powered Power Armor.esp mod's changes would take effect. They did.
7. Attempted a hard save. Game did NOT crash.
8. Eureka! Pretty sure Merged Patch and MasterUpdate is the way to go for my combination of mods. Game is finally playable. Enclave faces are finally meltable. Happiness ensues.

I ran two more tests, just in case it would give you some more information:

FOURTH attempt with Bashed Patch, 01 PLUS mostly MasterUpdated files BUT Merged Patch.esp is NEITHER merged NOR enabled. - FAIL
1. Started FOMM and disabled Merged Patch.esp and enabled Bashed Patch, 01.esp
2. Note that I did NOT run MasterUpdate.exe again, even though my mods have changed. In other words, Bashed Patch, 01.esp is not flagged as an .esm.
3. Started Garybash and rebuilt Bashed Patch, 01.esp. I did NOT check Merged Patch.esp for merging into the Bashed Patch, 01.esp
4. Once patch was rebuilt, I launched game using Garybash's Pipboy button (FO3+FOSE).
5. Attempted to load the same savegame I've been loading in all previous attempts. Game freezes (it does not crash, it simply freezes).
6. Figuring it's a fluke, I restart the game through Garybash, and attempt to load the same savegame. Game freezes again.

FIFTH attempt with Bashed Patch, 01, PLUS Merged Patch merged into Bashed Patch, 01.esp PLUS mostly MasterUpdated files - SUCCESS
1. Started Garybash and rebuilt Bashed Patch, 01.esp.This time I ENABLED merging for Merged Patch.esp into the Bashed Patch, 01.esp
2. Note that Bashed Patch, 01.esp is still NOT flagged as an .esm because I have not run MasterUpdate on it.
3. Once patch was rebuilt, I launched game using Garybash's Pipboy button (FO3+FOSE).
4. Attempted to load the same savegame I've been loading in all previous attempts. Game loads.
5. Attempted a CASM quicksave (hotkey: F4). Game did NOT crash.
6. Fast traveled from to The Citadel and entered The Lab and approached Quartermaster Durga.
7. Waited 24 hours to re-populate Durga's inventory to check to see if the Powered Power Armor.esp mod's changes would take effect. They did.
8. Attempted a hard save. Game did NOT crash.
9. Hooray!

Hope that helps you (or anyone else) in making sense of things or with future troubleshooting.

[Nicole Kraus]

Well all that doesn't explain whether the bashed patch is to be at fault only the presence or absence of masterupdate for your load order.

I just checked the http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3729 comments - others reporting crashing on saves there. Seems though that those were traced to mods though as well. Which is still what I suspect.

Here are futher tests I would do:
Check the crashing using hard saves versus CASM - which crash more.
Check which saves result in less crashes on the next reload and save -- my bet is hard saves are more stable.

Check if using a bashed patch AND masterupdate results in crashes. If no crashing with Bashed patch masterupdated then we have narrowed in on masterupdate being more key than the bashed patch in this scenario. Did you read my crash thread with Arthmoor's conclusions at the end?

Then also please tell me that you did test master restore (esp status) without Busworld. I'd do that and remove any companion mods (other than FWE) too with bashed patch and hard saves and see if there is crashing.

[Dalton Greynolds]

Here are futher tests I would do:
Check the crashing using hard saves versus CASM - which crash more.

With JUST the Bashed Patch, both CASM quicksaves and hard saves were at 100% immediate crash rate. No difference.

Check which saves result in less crashes on the next reload and save -- my bet is hard saves are more stable.

I only had CASM quicksaves prior to switching to the Bashed Patch, after which things went awry. After the switch, I had no hardsaves to test with because hardsaves were also a 100% crash rate with JUST the Bashed Patch.

Check if using a bashed patch AND masterupdate results in crashes. If no crashing with Bashed patch masterupdated then we have narrowed in on masterupdate being more key than the bashed patch in this scenario. Did you read my crash thread with Arthmoor's conclusions at the end?

I just edited my previous post with two more tests. Do these tests give you any more information? I ran a Bashed Patch with mostly MasterUpdated files (i.e. ALL files EXCEPT Bashed Patch, 01.esp were flagged as .esm). Works fine as long as the Merged Patch.esp changes are incorporated/merged into Bashed Patch, 01.esp

[Siidney]

Well what I mean by comparing saves is to make new hard saves - preferably after waiting out a cell purge sweep (8 days with FWE + disable primary needs to help that out).

Then make 5 hard saves and 5 auto/quick saves.
Then test by loading from each and saving with one or the other types to get a clearer picture of which leads to more stability.

I see your edits above - question though on how you are merging the merged patch into the bashed patch ... do you mean just having it active while you bash? Are you leaving the merged active, as well as, the bashed patch?

If the merged patch was left active then it is probably not cashing due to it being active which leads me to believe that something in your load order is being merged with it that is not in the bashed patch.

So when using the bashed patch are you importing tags? when using the merged patch with the bashed patch are all esp active. It could be that something is deactivated that needs to be activated even if it is mergable into bash.


Then also - I'm prepared to throw out all your results if you don't at least test esp status master restore + bashed patch WITHOUT Busworld. :shifty: because Buswold caused me those exact issues with esp status and bashed patch.

[Brian Newman]

If the merged patch was left active then it is probably not cashing due to it being active which leads me to believe that something in your load order is being merged with it that is not in the bashed patch.

When I chose to rebuild the Bashed Patch, 01 in the FIFTH attempt, I selected Merged Patch.esp in the checklist for category Merge Patches when the Rebuild Patch... pop-up appears. So yes, it was left active in a sense ("+" symbol in checkbox, by being merged into Bashed Patch, 01.esp) which probably means your assumption about load order not being merged properly is correct. Note that in the failed FOURTH attempt, I did NOT do this and thus it was a failure which further bolsters your assumption.

Then also - I'm prepared to throw out all your results if you don't at least test esp status master restore + bashed patch WITHOUT Busworld. :shifty: because Buswold caused me those exact issues with esp status and bashed patch.

LOL. Damnit, I'll try. Right now though, I' m heading out.