Warning, if you don't want the Fighters Guild questline in Morrowind completely spoiled, you probably shouldn't read this. Anyway, on with the topic:

First thing first, I should clarify that this only deals with the main series games, from Morrowind to Skyrim. Daggerfall, Arena, Redguard, Battlespire and the Elder Scrolls Online, as well as the mobile games, are not of interest to be in this text.

What is Depth and Complexity?

This is an essential question to ask before getting into the games themselves, because in my time talking about this with others, or just reading or listening to people’s opinions, I can’t seem to get a clear view of what people mean when they say something is complex or deep. It has struck me as a description for something they like, or if they criticize it for not being deep, something they don’t like.

So what do I mean when I say the words “depth” and “complexity”? Well, the idea has to be broken down a bit, and I think I need to start with the game interface.

There is no doubt that the interface has become more accessible with each of the games from Morrowind to Skyrim, but what does that really mean for the series? Well, it affords us to use less time learning how to navigate the menus. Convenient, to be sure, and I suppose some would see it as a reduction of complexity to the game. I disagree, because I think that most people wouldn’t have a very different opinion on the depth and complexity of Morrowind if it had an interface that was more accessible than it is now. In truth, there was actually a small change to the interface, in the Journal, that came with one of the expansions, that made it a great deal easier to manage, and I can’t say I’ve seen people complain about it. So we can cross the interface of the list when it comes to what I talk about when using these words.

What about the skills and levelling up? This is something I am going to come back to, so I won’t go in great detail here, but I do think there is some validity of using this as one measurement. So we have one criteria grounded, in that levelling gives you choices for your character.

Are there other criteria? Of course there are. Even though it can be fun to go through every possible choice for what “depth” and “complexity” could mean, as I did with the interface, I will spare myself the time typing it out and just get on to the finished list.

Choices, the lore and the ideas behind positions is the best summation of what I think of as complexity, as it retains to the Elder Scrolls games from Morrowind to Skyrim. Other people could put other criteria, but these are the ones I find to be consistent.

Combat’s Depth?

I’ll admit right of the bat that this is not that common of a complaint, from what I have seen, but it is a complaint nonetheless that I have encountered. And, quite frankly, one I don’t really understand. Exactly what is the argument? Well, it is that combat has lost some of its depth because the game relies more of player skill than player character skill for fighting, and I suppose there is some truth to that, with the removal of the “dice roll” from combat. I disagree with this being reduction in complexity or depth.

Of course, I disagree with this because Bethesda didn’t only remove the chance to miss and dodge and such from the series when they made Oblivion. Had that been the case, people who bring this up would have a point, but it isn’t. Instead, weapons(as an example) now have a damage that is primarily dependent on the skill you have with that weapon, more than your characters strength or the weapon itself(within reason, of course). Weapons no longer have a static damage range, but have its damage calculated.

While in Morrowind, you could buy an Iron Warhammer from Arrille of Arrille’s Tradehouse and have a good damage weapon for quite a long time in the game(iron warhammmer does 1-28 chopping damage), in Oblivion and Skyrim, that Iron Warhammer is going to have a low damage for a very long time.

What this comes out to, is that weapon effectiveness scales very much the same way, but they go about it in two different ways. When you have a high skill and corresponding attribute, you’re going to be very accurate in Morrowind, so you can deal damage. And if you have the same in Oblivion or Skyrim(just replace attribute with perks), you’re going to do more damage, if the player can make the character connect their weapon to the enemy.

Which of these approaches has the most depth or complexity? I would say neither. They both go about doing the same thing, and they do it pretty well. It is about illustrating the character’s increased effectiveness with the usage of these weapons, and they both successfully illustrate that. Which approach people prefer is up to the individual, but I don’t think there is any inherent depth or complexity in one system that the other one lacks.

“But what of the options in combat itself?” some might ask, probably someone who enjoys Skyrim very much. A fair question too, I would say, given that between the adding of the controlled shield/weapon bashes, the dual-hand system and Dragon Shouts, I think Skyrim presents more options in combat than its predecessors. Or at least in melee combat and archery. Alas, magic wasn’t done nearly good enough in Skyrim, despite the potential. So let’s break down the combat itself, in all three games, to see what can be done with it. First the weapon skills.

In Morrowind, with the exception of magic, the combat is very straight forward and presents very few choices. Blocking is automatic and will trigger during combat if the stats favor it, and can only happen if you have a shield equipped. You choose between a series of palette swaps for the same weapons, and choose if you want to use a shield or not, or if you want to use a bow/crossbow. Long Blade, Blunt Weapon and Axe are all essentially the same skill, while Spear and Short Blades can boast to at least have a defining trait about them. Spear is exclusively two-handed and Short Blade is exclusively one-handed. Alas, these defining traits are rendered a liability and downside, more than reasons to choose them, when compared to the Long Blade, Blunt Weapon and Axe skills, all of whom sports weapons of both the two-handed and one-handed variety. Someone proficient in any of these three skills, have the same adaptability on the battlefield to someone skilled in both Short Blade and Spear. And generally better weapons available, since high quality Short Blades and, especially, Spears are much harder to come by.

Did this change for the better with Oblivion? No, I wouldn’t say that. One of the skills rendered unfavorable were simply removed(Spear), while Blunt Weapon and Axe was combined into Blunt. Blade now stood for both Long Blades and Short Blades. Now we’d gone from three palette swaps and two unfavorable weapon skills, to simply two palette swaps. The minor differences between the styles left it an aesthetic preference more than anything. Blade had the weakest and fastest weapon(dagger), while Blunt had the slowest and strongest one(warhammer).

What did change for the better with Oblivion is that now we gained control over our character’s blocking, and special effects from power attacks as various milestones of skill mastery was reached, as well as some effects from blocking(with shields or hands) that could be triggered. Combat became more involved than before. Unlocking the ability to disarm, knock down and paralyze the opponents with your weapon added a lot, and even more since you decided when you wanted to take the chance of these effects triggering.

This came at another expense though, dealing with the choice between a one-handed or two-handed weapon. The effectiveness of two-handed weapons, compared to one-handed ones, is far too small. The best weapons you’re likely to get, outside of glitches and artifacts, are Daedric, as they become random loot from every other bandit and marauder you come across around level 23, which isn’t that high a level. The Daedric Warhammer, the strongest Daedric weapon available, has 33 damage at the most. That is with 100 strength, 100 in Blunt and the weapon condition at 125%(only available with the Expert Mastery Perk in Armorer). A Daedric Mace or Longsword, the two most powerful one-handed weapons, will have 29 damage under the same conditions. And they can use a shield at the same time. You offer a small amount of damage, in favor of notable increase in armor rating and superior defenses in terms of blocking. Not only is blocking with a shield a great deal more effective, but it also has the benefit of getting the chance to stagger or disarm your opponent at higher mastery of the skill(expert and master, respectively). Adding in artifacts, the damage difference is even smaller, as Ummbra(one-handed sword) has 33 damage and Nerveshatter(two-handed warhammer from the Shivering Isles, level 30+ version) has 35.

Moving on to Skyrim, the weapon skills now do carry significant defining traits. Instead of the Blade/Blunt distinction, we now have One-Handed and Two-Handed. Unlike the previous games, you no longer have an all-in-one skill for combat, and we’re given more options in general for how to handle combat. Skyrim introduced dual-hand system, where all spells and weapons take at least one hand, if they are not two-handed weapons or bows/crossbows, and it all has its own advantages and disadvantages.

Two-handed weapons have the least flexibility internally in the skill, but offers a good balance of defense and high damage in combat. Weapon bashing and blocking, while not as effective as with a shield, significantly increases defense compared to a dual wielding setup, which can do neither, and two-handed weapons do significantly more damage than a weapon’n’shield setup, all other factors being equal(weapon quality, skill level, perks and enchantments).

Something that is important to bring up before continuing is that in Skyrim, combat effectiveness has a secondary concern, namely perks. You’re going to have very limited amounts of perks for the most of the game, where you have to balance everything from armor, crafting, weapon abilities and anything else your character might be interested in using. This will come up again when I discuss character leveling and creation.

One-handed can do damage and defense better than two-handed can, but it can only do one of those at any given time, and to fill the role of both as balanced as a two-handed fighter does, it will require a substantial investment of perks. If you only want to do better damage, the perk investment of one-handed is nearly identical in scope to that of two-handed. It is on the defensive side that a one-handed setup becomes expensive, perk-wise. This is because a defensive one-handed build relies on a secondary skill, namely block. There are some amazing abilities to be unlocked in this skills, like 50% elemental resistance(fire, frost and shock) when blocking and a chance to disarm opponents when power bashing them, but they come at an increased cost, making weapon’n’shield very poorly suited for hybrid characters for much of the game.

As an added bonus to this, in Skyrim, you can also give the various weapon types perks that alters their usefulness in small ways. Now, I don’t think these perks are handled that well, but I do think they add more reason behind your weapon of choice than Morrowind and Oblivion ever did, and is a step in the right direction. Warhammers and maces ignore X% of armor, war axes and battleaxes do bleeding damage and swords and greatswords do more critical damage.

I haven’t touched on marksman fighting in any substantial way yet, and there is a very simple reason for that: There are no substantial differences between the games between how marksman combat is handled, other than that in Morrowind you have a chance to miss and in Oblivion/Skyrim you have a chance to have your arrows trigger effects like knockdown/staggering on the opponent. The most significant change to this form of combat comes with the ability to weapon bash with the bow in Skyrim, allowing a controlled stagger of enemies that have come too close to give the player time to run or swap weapons to a melee setup.

Hand to Hand, on the other hand(pun intended), is more of a can of worms to open. I think that Oblivion did this combat style the best, even though it was rather weak as far as a combat skill went. In Morrowind, you only did Fatigue(Stamina) damage until the opponent was knocked out, at which point you could take down their health. It was ineffective and did little damage. In Oblivion you still did damage to the enemy’s Fatigue, but you also directly damaged their health at the same time. Add in that you could learn all the special power attack effects weapon wielders could(disarm, knockdown and paralyze) and got the block perk effects in addition to this without having to invest in blocking, and that you can affect ghosts and such when reaching skill level 50, you have a fairly viable(-ish) fighting style. Had there been Hand to Hand weapons to increase the atrocious damage(11 at the most), it would have been a great fighting style. Alas, since it falls so far short of Blade and Blunt in terms of damage(and it doesn’t have options for enchanting, losing at least 1 slot for that), it remains a poor primary damage focus.

In Skyrim, on the other hand, Hand to Hand isn’t even a skill. It can be useful-ish, like in Oblivion, but that is dependent on a few factors. Like your race. The only race that has any reason to invest in this fighting style is the Khajiit, who gets a bonus to hand to hand fighting passively from their racial ability. The second factor is heavy armor, where the Fist of Steel perk will give you your gauntlets’ base armor(before smithing upgrades, and irrespective of your heavy armor skill) as a bonus to you unarmed damage. And the last factor is enchantment, since you can have a Fortify Unarmed Damage enchantment. You do, however, still fall short of the damage one-handed and two-handed has, and you don’t have any of the fancy abilities you did in Oblivion, or even the ability to block. Put simply, it is an inferior way to dual wield.

My verdict on the non-magic combat is that Skyrim does it the best.

Magic and Magic Combat

Something I refrained from touching on in the last section was magic, because it would have mudded the issue substantially. I think I can more clearly present it if I separate it.

This is one area where I can start off by saying that I do think Morrowind outclasses both Oblivion and Skyrim, simply because of the amount of spells that are available. And, yes, some of this is because of the dice roll part of the mechanics Morrowind has. The spell effects Sanctuary and Sound are both dependent on this being possible. It also featured the largest selection of non-combat spell effects, as well as combat spell effects.

Oblivion removed some of the spells, but retained most of the important ones. Spells like Levitation would be problematic with the setup Oblivion uses, where cities are within their own cells, and the intervention spells were substituted with Fast Travel. But the variety available in combat, and out of it, and the largest selection of summonable creatures(with Shivering Isles, of course), made magic combat in Oblivion very good.

Skyrim, on the other hand, dropped the ball on magic, and big time. Non-combat spells have been greatly reduced in number, all spells are unique and allows no spell-making, and the combat spells we do have are largely ineffectual compared to their relative cost to use, and it features the smallest selection of summonable creatures. The only saving grace magic in Skyrim has isn’t even the spells themselves, but that some of the magic skills have very useful passive effects one can unlock through perks, especially Alteration. Restoration is, admittedly, done rather well, but it is also the easiest one to do, since Healing is pretty straight forward.

Commenting further on that, it is not like Skyrim has any excuse when it comes to its engine for a lot of these effects. The 100 skill perk in Light Armor, for example, gives a 10% chance of avoiding melee attacks altogether. Since this is possible, it would clearly be possible to have a spell effect like Sanctuary from Morrowind.

Generally speaking, Skyrim did an awful job with magic.

Stealth

Another point that is of fairly short length, given the similarity in the games. Sneaking around remains sneaking around. Skyrim has a better indication of detection than Oblivion and Oblivion does that better than Morrowind. All three games have Sneak Criticals.

Oblivion goes one step further than Morrowind and gives certain perks for that, like increasing the damage done and ignoring armor. Skyrim even further with things like Assassin’s Blade and Shadow Warrior.

Sneaking in Skyrim seems to be a more powerful tool for killing people than the previous games, though the mechanics are virtually the same in all the games.

Crafting

You can be a craftsman in all these games, on different levels. Alchemy is the only one that has consistently been a skill available to the player, Enchanting makes an appearance in both Morrowind and Skyrim, and Smithing is only available in Skyrim. You could still enchant in Oblivion, either with an Altar of Enchanting or a Sigil Stone, but those effects were completely unaffected by the player character’s stats.

Glitches and exploits aside, I think Skyrim generally handles the crafting the best, giving all archetypes something to use. Weapons and armor can be tempered, and you choose which types of effects you’d like to focus on in enchanting and alchemy.

This is really not a topic I think I can go too much into, because the fact remains that there is more crafting available for the player in Skyrim. It is a system I think should be fixed, and perhaps not have it be player skills as such, but rather abilities learned by question and winning the favor of smiths and enchanters, but that is irrelevant to the games in question, since none of them do this.

Character Creation and Leveling

This is, by far, one of the things I’ve seen brought up the most when comparing Morrowind and Oblivion to Skyrim, and I think there is something to it.

Race

One of the earliest choices we get is which of the 10 races we want to play as. This will have two primary effects on the game. 1) The aesthetic appearance of our character, from skin tone to height etc, and 2) the abilities that directly affect gameplay, like the Nords’ frost resistance.

You could consider the skill bonuses each race get to be one of these effects, but I find them to be very temporary at best and thus not a significant part of the evaluation I make of the races. More important, in Morrowind and Oblivion, is the starting values of the attributes. And here is where the biggest issue many find with the races in Skyrim lies.

Save for the skill bonuses and unique racial abilities and powers, the races start out with the same stats. All races have a base value of 100 in Health, Magicka and Stamina, and only the Altmer has an ability that alters one of these, with its +50 points in magicka.

I am among those who would like a bit more difference between the races as they start out, though I have to criticize Morrowind for how it handled its races too, simply on the grounds of how unbalanced they were. The same can be said for Oblivion, to a lesser extent, with how powerful they made the Breton compared to every other race.

The Breton is not the problem in Morrowind though, that would be the Nord and the Altmer. The two extremes, if you will. The Nords were completely immune to frost magic, and had a 50% resistance to shock, making them one of the best defensive races in the game. Their stats also fit very well for warrior characters, with a lot of health and strength.

The Altmer, while a great magician, has some immense weaknesses in Morrowind, almost to the point where it feels like a suicide run to play as one. Fire magic does 50% extra damage, shock and frost does another 25% and all non-elemental offensive spells have 50% increased effectiveness. That is % for % the strength of the Nord’s magical defense in magical weakness, which is quite dangerous given the common nature of spells from hostile creatures and people.

The Dunmer is another race with strong racial powers, starting with 75% resistance to fire and a 50 point Sanctuary Greater Power. The Redguards have their Adrenaline Rush, which substantially increases their capabilities as a warrior once a day. The Breton has 50% magic resistance(non elemental in Morrowind) and increased max magicka. The rest of the races really aren’t very useful compared to these, if planning for the longrun, when attributes and skill bonuses account for very little.

Skyrim made the races far more balanced, but removed some of their individuality. Morrowind has plenty of differences, but makes some races very much better than the others in pure gameplay. I think the balance should be somewhere in between, and I think Oblivion did the best job thus far with this, save for the Bretons. 50% resistance to all magic is a bit much, I think.

Birthsign

But race is just one pf the choices we are given in Morrowind and Oblivion. The Birthsign is another. And one that I agree we need to get back. A permanent trait to the character we choose in the beginning is neat and adds more choice to the character creation. That Skyrim lacked this is a bad thing.

Class

This is probably the most contentious of the issues people have with Skyrim’s character creation, and I think it is because it isn’t quite so easy to take a stance of “this is reducing choice” or “this isn’t reducing choice”.

Something that is important to remember is that the classes in Morrowind and Oblivion were just a collection of skills that made you level up, and in return these skills leveled up faster than the others. Other than that, there was no benefit on the skills themselves. Only the number associated with the skills mattered, be they minor or major skills.

I’m more in line with people who are glad to be rid of this class system, because I don’t think it adds anything to the game, beyond a label. Now, let me make it clear that I am in favor of having something along the lines of the Tag! skills from Fallout, where you get to put +15 to three skills of your choosing, but I don’t think the skills you select should be the determining factor for how you level up, like it is in Oblivion and Morrowind.

Character Development

Having spent some time pointing out flaws in Skyrim’s character creation, I think it is time to point to something I think it does right. Leveling up. Sure, the perks could use some work, and I would like Fallout-esque attributes, but that we’re given a choice in increasing health, stamina or magicka, as well as having 1 perk point per level to spend on our skills is something I can only consider a step in the right direction.

What I like about it is that now I get to decide what skills I want to invest in and how much, and I have to do so at the expense of other skills. You could argue that this is a poor argument, because you’re gonna get enough perks to get all you want anyway, but I find this to be a very poor argument in this context. And the reason why is because the very same argument applies to the system in Morrowind and Oblivion as well. Sooner or later, unless you stop using a skill, it’ll reach 100. And even if your corresponding attribute is not 100, that is of far less significance than not having the corresponding perks in Skyrim. Comparing Oblivion and Skyrim, the difference between 50 and 100 strength is about 20% to 25% damage. Compared to Skyrim’s 100% damage, stamina cost reduction and power attacks, that seems very insignificant.

Take two hypothetical characters, both warriors with heavy armor, block, smithing and two-handed weapons, in Skyrim. If I choose to, I can focus on my weapon skill much more than my heavy armor skill on one of them, and the opposite on the other. Or maybe I’ll try my best to focus on my crafting early on. They’ll end up largely the same, some 35-40 levels after starting the character, but until then, we do have the option to make characters with identical skills play differently in their focus. And this character would be rather narrow and direct in its skill selection. Add in restoration and destruction, making them hybrid warriors, and you’ll have even more perk points that needs to be balanced.

Attributes

This is the big one. The really big one. Probably the most repeated argument for Skyrim being less deep and complex than Morrowind or Oblivion(or both, doesn’t matter) has to do with the removal of the attributes.

In a sense, I could understand this point. I think removing the attributes instead of fixing them was a major mistake and loss of potential. However, I don’t consider the attributes to be well handled in Morrowind or Oblivion, especially the way they relate to leveling.

When I look at the attributes used on TES 3&4, at least when seen in the context of the class system accompanying it, I see nothing but a system meant to reward a huge grind. It doesn’t reward you for investing in the skills that supposedly represents your character, but instead pushes you not so subtly towards investing in the skills that supposedly are not what defines your character, so that your attribute gain isn’t so pitiful.

We’re not given an important choice that will define our characters for much of the game to come, like in Fallout 3 and New Vegas, when it comes to these attributes. We’re given 3 to 15 potential point increases every level and we damn well better make sure you get something out of it, because they determine everything from speed, to melee damage, dodge chance, health, how much people like you, magicka, magicka regen or resistance(against paralysis and such) and the amount of fatigue and magicka you have.

Do I think it is a bad thing that the attributes affect these things? NO! I think the way the attributes are implemented is highly flawed and doesn’t serve gameplay.

Building a character is about finding that one way you want to play it, but when the game is set up so that actually doing this is limiting your own character needlessly; I think the point has been lost.

Why do I think Fallout 3/NV does attributes better(Almost Perfect notwithstanding, that is a horrible perk)? Because you have very limited means of increasing them after the initial choices you’ve made in how they are to be. You have to prioritize, to think about what is most important for your character. How important is it that people like you? Do you need a lot of health? Are you going to invest in many or just a few skills? How many Action Points should I go for? How much do I need to be able to carry? Is it worth sacrificing one of my limited number of perks to increase my attributes?

This sort of prioritization is mostly lacking in Morrowind and Oblivion, and I think that is very sad. And I think it is even worse that Bethesda had a much better system available and choose to not use some variation of it in Skyrim.

I will give Skyrim credit for getting a tiny bit of the prioritization back though, by giving us very limited increases in our primary stats, choices that remain irrevocable, even after the Perks have been made possible to respec.

Factions

I don’t think either of the three games have, broadly speaking, done factions very well. The three best factions, for my money, if the Fighters Guild in Morrowind, the Fighters Guild in Oblivion and the Dark Brotherhood in Oblivion.

Before continuing, I should clarify that I don’t necessarily make this judgment on the basis of the questline alone. I think the questline in the Oblivion Mages Guild, for example, is great fun to play through. My problem with it is that it doesn’t feel like a Mages Guild, but rather like I am playing as a member of the knightly Order of the Lamp, sworn to protect the Mages Guild. The Recommendation quests are great, but the nearly non-stop Worm Cult focus isn’t what I associate with being a member in good standing at the Arcane University.

But, you might ask, if Morrowind’s Fighters Guild is one of my favorites, why don’t I think Morrowind did the factions very well in general? It is quite simple: The factions in Morrowind, by and large, lack an overarching narrative the player takes part in. They appear more to be in the line of places where the developers could herd a lot of quests for the player to do.

I don’t want to be too down on this, because I think it does have some benefits. Take the Imperial Cult, for example. With the exception of the Shrine Sargent quests and the Oracle quests, you’re doing nothing but running errands, collecting money, drinks and alchemy supplies. But it is rewarding to do so, because you do so as part of a missionary effort. It gives a coherent context to the busywork you’re assigned to do, that does have rewards if you perform them well. Both in the quest itself, and in the reputation gained in the faction. And the Imperial Cult is very generous with its enchanted items, scrolls and potions.

You can describe the Legion, or the Great Houses, or the Mages Guild or pretty much every other guild the same way. Herding mostly unrelated quests together, giving them some context and rewards outside the quests itself. I wish more TES games did this, because it is such a perfect opportunity to expand on the lore through these factions. I think the Bard’s College was intended be something along these lines, but it was underwhelming and too small in scope.

However, the strength of this is also its weakness. There is no narrative to make you care about continuing in the faction, no choices to be made, and it all comes back to self-interest. Now, let’s examine the Morrowind Fighters Guild for a moment.

What do you do in most of the quests? You take orders from a local Guild Steward and kill some stuff. Or fetch something. Until you’re slapped in the face with a choice between supporting Sjoring Hard-Heart’s efforts to make the Guild more independent of the Empire, or Percius Mercius’ efforts to uphold honor. Or are you? If you take the time to talk to Percius Mercius about the assignments given to you by Eydis Fire-Eye and Lorbumol gro-Aglahk, there seems to be a lot of assignments that have more to do with helping out the Comonna Tong than actually being contracts.

Towards the end of the questline, you’re given a choice in who you want to support, Sjoring Hard-Heart or Percius Mercius. And this is where I think the questline goes from pretty good to the best narrative in a faction yet seen in an Elder Scrolls game.

On the outside, Sjoring’s position might seem wholly based on self-interest, and Sjoring himself seems to be mostly self-interested, as he decides to try to kill you rather than let you take over as Guildmaster, but his position isn’t that unreasonable in the grand scheme of things.

What Sjoring is working for is to prevent the Vvardenfell Fighters Guild from collapsing, and his way of doing this is to ally himself with the local crime syndicate, who has the influence and money to help them out. In return for a few favors, of course. Like killing an Imperial judge in Ebonheart, or collecting money on the Comonna Tong’s behalf. Or silencing Thieves Guild critics. And, finally, take out the Thieves Guild completely, by killing all the leaders they have in Vvardenfell. Shady stuff, but when you hear about the uncertainty of the succession in Cyrodiil, how there are mobs trying to get at the Emperor’s heirs because they are believed to be Daedra planted by Jagar Tharn(ask Legionnaires in Ebonheart after unlocking the “Unrest in Cyrodiil” topic) and how generals keep one eye on the Ruby Throne, I can’t help but think there is a certain value to make the Vvardenfell chapter independent, as much as possible, from the Empire.

Sjoring Hard-Heard:

“I’ve watched your progress in the Fighters Guild, [player name]. You’ll make a fine Guildmaster someday. But with all the unrest in Cyrodiil, we need allies to make sure there’s still a Fighters Guild here for you. I need you to kill the Thieves Guild bosses.”

(Unrest in Cyrodiil)

“Uriel Septim was never a strong Emperor. And now he’s finally dying of of age and illness. A coward’s death. They say Ocato makes the real decisions. They say Uriel’s heirs are really daedra or shapeshifters planted by Jagar Tharn. They say the Emperor might pull back the Legions to try and protect himself. Some of the generals in the Legions have one eye on Uriel Septim and one eye on the throne. At a time like this, only the Imperial Guilds with strong allies will survive.”

To add to this, what you choose to do in the Fighters Guild in Morrowind can have dire consequences in the Thieves Guild, ranging from having it unjoinable, destroyed or thankful to you for having removed the Comonna Tong ally in Sjoring Hard-Heart.

So, you’re given a choice, between Percius Mercius and Sjoring Hard-heart. One want to return the Guild to being honorable, the other one wants to make sure there is a Guild left at all. I think both positions are relatable, which is why I think the faction is so good. It combines what a guild like that should do(mercenary contract work) with the lore of the world(Cyrodiil’s internal problems) and gives you two different sides to choose from, each with their own outlook on the situation. There is no “good guys/bad guy” dichotomy. It is just who you think is right about the path to the future.

The Fighters Guild and Dark Brotherhood in Oblivion have some of this narrative to guild work balance, but they lack the extra steps that makes me consider them as good as the Fighters Guild in Morrowind.

The Great Houses and the Skyrim Civil War

First off, I’m not interested in a debate about the Skyrim Civil War or its sides. This is about the factions who are mutually exclusive in the games, the Great Houses and the sides of the Civil War.

I enjoy playing in the Great Houses a great deal more than I do the Civil War, purely set on gameplay grounds. The civil war is rather boring and uninteresting in the questline itself. But it does have something that the Great Houses never seem to really get across, and that is the position behind the factions. Both sides have a narrative that is understandable, where neither side are really a “bad guy”, at least outside of the perspective of the other side. Had the quests themselves been more interesting, this duo-faction situation could have been the best faction questline in the series so far, because it plays very much on the lore and what path is better for the future.

Alas, the Great Houses don’t really have anything like this. It, like most factions in Morrowind, lacks an overarching story and is mostly busywork dressed up. Hlaalu takes quite a few jabs at House Redoran, but it is never a coherent story. Some internal conflict in House Redoran happen, but it lacks choices and insight into the positions. It just doesn’t feel significant to be part of one of the Great Houses. At least in the Civil War, you can see the Jarls being replaced and there opens a decent amount of new dialogue regarding the outcome.

The Lore

This one is simple, or should be. I wrote a text, which I called “Skyrim is not about Skyrim” where I in detail criticize the direction of the lore in Skyrim. The text is what follows:

“Something that is interesting to see in the game Skyrim, when you think about it, is how little of the game is actually about Skyrim. At first this might seem like a very strange assertion, given that the game takes place in Skyrim. However, looking at the circumstances of the lore, you do get a quite different image.

What is the most relevant lore to the setting of the game, as in the specific social conditions we will see the Nords live under in 4E201? Well, it is the White-Gold Concordat, predicated on the rise of the Thalmor and the decline of the Empire, culminating in Cyrodiil’s surrender in 4E175. The Nords were involved in the conflict, but were so reactively. Simply put this means that they were never initiators of anything that happened in Cyrodiil. They were simply called in to help the Cyrods fight the Dominion soldiers.

Okay, so the big picture of the lore is centered on Cyrodiil and Alinor. What about a smaller scale? Well, the most immediate event in Skyrim itself that has shaped the current socio-political climate is the Markarth Incident, the Reachmen Uprising. However, this has fundamentally shaped the present through Ulfric Stormcloak, much more than the Reachmen, who play a somewhat small part in the setting. Specifically, this is the time when Ulfric is stabbed in the back by the Empire and presumably coming to the conclusion that this Empire is not worth having anymore.

Wait a minute… Let’s go back and re-read that last part. Uh-huh. Interesting. Again it seems that the Empire is in the center of the focus here. The rebellion was deal with, by and large, being reduced to hill-dwelling guerilla fighters. A nuisance, but not a major threat. Markarth was back in Nordic control. The net-gain from that conflict for Skyrim as a whole is that a former supporter of the Empire turned against them. Ulfric himself seem to be supportive of the idea of the Empire in general, just not what he sees it to be after the WGC. Much the same can be said for Galmar, and people like Thonar Silver-Blood.

Okay, so the Empire is highly in focus around the rebellion. What would you expect, Tdroid? You drooling [censored] anti-Empire [censored]? Well, I would expect that to be the case. It is just one of the things that makes me reach my conclusion.

Before I get on to that, I want to make one last point on Skyrim itself. The main quest. Dragons are returning, but they seem to have little to no impact on the real setting of the game. Ask yourself this: What is actually on the minds of most people? In most cases, if they are worried, it will be the civil war. This also takes virtually all the attention from the Jarls as well. The larger impact on the game’s setting is the civil war.

Considering that, an element of the civil war we have to examine a bit is the whole stance of “this is just a sideshow”, which is something Tullius will say outright. The civil war is not a priority in the eyes of the leaders of the Empire. The Dominion is the priority. And to the Dominion, the civil war is just another way of weakening the human nations, as long as it rages on. For the time being, their short term goal appear to be to destroy the Cyrodilic Empire, to which end the civil war is just a tool.

This also reflects the lore itself. It treats Skyrim’s setting as an interlude before the next big conflict with the real enemy, between the real participants. You know, the Aldmeri Dominon and the Cyrodilic Empire. Tullius and Ondolemar says as much. It happens to include what I can only call a token main quest centered on the Dragons. However, even this seem to be more focused on what is generally Cyrodilic lore.

Before the release of Skyrim, the Dragonborn was much more heavily geared towards the Cyrods and their culture, with a tradition of Dragonborn Emperors, beginning with Alessia, then through Reman and finally Tiber Septim. It isn’t before the game Skyrim that we get much insight into the Nords reverence for the Dragonborn, in what I can only see as removing differences between the Nords and the Imperials. At the end of the day, regardless of how you cut it, the Dragonborn is not a Nordic centered cultural aspect. It is a Cyro-Nordic(as in, shared between the cultures, not the old name for the Imperial race) cultural aspect that is far more relevant to Cyrodiil’s culture, and at the point of being irrelevant in Skyrim’s. The Nords don’t have anything akin to the Cyrodilic Dragonborn Emperor traditions.

The main antagonist, Alduin, is, on the other hand, something unique to the Nords. Or he used to be. Now he is described as “the firstborn of Akatosh” by a fellow Dragon. There are many ways this could have happened, when considering that Akatosh is a merged god from both Nordic and elven gods. However, the change of Alduin comes back to the Cyrodilic culture and religion.

With this turn of Alduin, and the changes that have been made to the Thu’um, it strikes me that it becomes harder and harder to find anything that is unique to Skyrim and the Nords, even in Skyrim. The only thing I can really think of is the Thu’um itself, as a cultural tradition. Currently under tight lock and key with the Greybeards, of course, because having more than 5 Nords be unique would be dangerous to the perception that they are much the same as the Imperials. And Sovngarde, which they thankfully have kept free of the non-Nords.

In general, we learn next to nothing about any modern history of the Nords, with the only history lessons being centered on either the ancient Nords, which translates to being little more than a show of how the Nords are so much more like the Imperials now, or on the other provinces. I don’t think I am exaggerating if I say that we have a better grasp of what has been going on in Cyrodiil, Alinor and Morrowind than Skyrim in the time between Oblivion and the game Skyrim. And in the time before that.

The Nords’ culture is another thing that is never explored in the game. We have a few references to the Jarls having the right to challenge the High King, which isn’t that unique, given the normalcy of duels in TES in general, and we get a nice little thing with the exchange of the Axe between Balgruuf and Ulfric. Minor, almost incidental, details and nods to them being a warrior people.

However, on the other hand, the religion has drastically been reduced, and replaced by the Imperial Divines. It is to the point when you find it to be a relief that calling Talos Talos isn’t another part of Cyrodilic culture being used instead of the Nordic one, and that there isn’t enough difference between the Imperial and Nordic version of Dibella to really tell them apart, unless someone specifically calls her “the bed-wife of Shor”. At best, we have 3 Nordic gods remaining. Ysmir(as Talos), Mara(the Handmaiden of Kyne) and Dibella(the one who barely isn’t the Imperial Dibella even at a good day).

Tiber Septim having created the Empire is used as a justification for its continued rule, which doesn’t strike me as a particularly Nordic concept. It was Ysgrammor’s line that was to rule Skyrim. After it died out, it was up to the most suited of the lords remaining, and the power changed hand to the one who showed himself the better ruler and protector of their lands. There is no Dragonborn right to rule in Skyrim. Only Dragonborn ruler I can think of was Wulfharth, the Ash King and the Storm of Kyne. That Talos created the Empire and was Dragonborn, and thus having the right to rule, is a distinctly Cyrodilic concept, not a Nordic one. I’d argue, with the Jarls having the right to challenge the High King to a duel to the death, this tradition is glaringly antithetical to the very traditions of ruling that exists in Skyrim.

Yet, both the Stormcloak leadership and several pro-Empire NPCs seem to hold to the idea that Tiber Septim’s Empire had the right to rule Skyrim. The Stormcloaks simply doesn’t accept the current Empire as the same one, as a result of the White-Gold Concordat. They do not deny such rights, which they should by their own traditions.

Maybe I am not being fair. What about the guilds in Skyrim? Two of them are native in, and restricted to, Skyrim. The Companions and the College of Winterhold. The Dark Bortherhood and the Thieves Guild are hardly venues for Nordic culture, but what about the guilds unique to Skyrim?

What about the Guilds unique to Skyrim? The Companions is a questline I can say is not about any other people, with a straight face. That is a fair point. However, even so, the Companions are not used to flesh out any of the Nordic culture. They are kinda just there. Mercenaries with a fancy name and origins, but with no actual impact on Skyrim’s culture as portrayed in Skyrim. They’re just stuck squabbling among themselves about the Beastblood, and with the Silver Hand about the Beastblood. They’re not taking anything away from a Nord centric narrative, but they aren’t adding anything either. I would think that a group dedicated to upholding Ysgrammor’s legacy would be a bit more involved in politics and society, but instead they effectively distances themselves from it.

The College of Winterhold, on the other hand, is so deep in the rest of the lore’s focus on Cyrodiil and the Dominion that it is not even funny. The main antagonist of the story is a Thalmor agent, and the Plot Device used to defeat him is found through assist of the Synod, one of the Imperial mages guilds left, and the Psijic Order, a non-Thalmor Altmer mages guild. The College of Winterhold, much like Skyrim itself in the Great War, is simply reactionary to the actions of the other factions centered in Alinor or Cyrodilic culture.

On the other hand, with the addition of Dragonborn, the Dunmer receive a whole new take on their gods, the Reclamations, and the Heart Stones of Red Mountain become a thing of Telvannit interest. The Imperial influence on this storyline is twisted into serving the Dunmer’s narrative, not the other way around, with the Heart Stones making an Imperial General come back to life and attack a Dunmer settlement. They are also given a new social order, with the change of the Great Houses, when Hlaalu is no longer one of them. Another Imperial influence twisted to serve the Dunmer narrative, instead of the other way around, and letting them distance themselves culturally from them.

The Orcs have more innovation too, with the inclusion of the Strongholds, and added context for their lives here. Their social order is fleshed out, as is their connection to Malacath in the quest “The Cursed Tribe”, much more than the Nords are. Adding a new name for the king and his nobles is not the same as adding layers to their social order.

I ask you this: What in Skyrim is really about Skyrim and the Nords? Very little, as far as I can tell, and even less of importance. It is about Cyrodiil, about Alinor, or a mixture of the two. Its primary focus, through the setting, is not the Nords themselves, but to act as a prelude to the larger, more important conflict between the Empire and the Aldmeri Dominion. Something that also infects the main questline, as if arbitrarily adding the Dragonborn as just as revered a figure in Norduc culture didn’t already do enough to smear a Cyro-Nordic core to it. It doesn’t even seem to make an attempt to hide this. They use the same exact “Plot Device” as they did in Oblivion; the Dragonborn. Uriel and Martin Septim, and now the Player.

The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim is not about Skyrim. Not in any substantial way.”

Moving on to Oblivion, for which I have no easy-at-hand text to use, I will try to summarize my point at much as possible, given the already longwinded nature of this text.

Cyrodiil, not only no longer being a combination of a jungle and farmland, is severely lacking in cultural identity, and doesn’t do anything to expand on the Imperials. The distinct Colovians and Nibenese are all but gone from the nation, and the religion is hardly ever given much attention. Visually, the province has next to nothing that appears to be actually Imperial in design. Compare the weapons and armor from Skyrim, Morrowind and Oblivion. Skyrim and Morrowind has a lot of styles that has a distinct appearance to it, usually tied to a race, but Oblivion lacks this. The common iron and steel armors in Skyrim feel very “Nordic”, but the same armors in Oblivion are entirely neutral in design.

Summed up, Oblivion has virtually no visual identity, no cultural identity or no religious identity. It is sad that it is that easy to sum it up, but that appears to be the case. Now, I want to clarify, I do enjoy Oblivion a lot as a game, and this is a criticism of the lore specifically.

In Morrowind, on the other hand, you can go pretty much point for point in my longer criticism of Skyrim’s lore and put a little “check” on every point I make. These “checks” would naturally represent what Morrowind does that Skyrim doesn’t.

There is just so much to learn about the culture of Morrowind and the Dunmer, even with a larger divide in their people(Ashlanders and the “settled people”). We get to see how the Tribunal Temple operates, to speak with Vivec and Almalexia, we have a villain and role as a hero firmly established in the parts of the lore unique to the Dunmer, conflicts between the Imperial Legion and the Ordinators and Bouyant Armigers, Temple authority’s influence on the main quest, the Hortator business and much, much more. Visually, Morrowind is very diverse and tells much.

Conclusion

Don’t look at me, I’m not going to tell you what conclusion to draw from this. Think for yourself.

TL;DR

TB; DC