Is there a proper TES discussion forum i.e. no console simpletons, no anti PC filth, no "what makes a good rpg is relative" hippies?

The Skyrim mod forum is the only thing that makes this place bearable.

I love the anology, so true. For all the hype that was Skyrim it's a polished turd.

Suprisingly, I turned off Skyrim to play this game.(You have to really try and not laugh at this statement as the game is obviously a joke)With a little imagination, this game beats Skyrim in every way except perhaps the amount of glitches Skyrim has and graphical prowess.

Morrowind (in my opinion) was the pinnacle of RPG games.

Oblivion was an absolute trainwreck.

Skyrim had added some of the wonder back in, but it's still not as in depth and complex as Morrowind was.

he goes and posts a link where the game plays itself and is nothing but numbers


you can tell he has completely missed the point and like many others are focusing on the -numbers- when the people he's arguing against aren't.

Your Imagination means squat to the game, your imagination effects you and you alone. Thats more or less the agreed aspect of RPING, Roleplay, Playing the role of your char Imagining that role and playing it accordingly. fine, good, dandy wtf ever, cookies for you. thats isn't the damn point people get less options and the bare minimum in character developement as per what matters to the Game, what the hell is so hard to grasp about that?

Many things have been taken away...but a lot of the things added by no means makes the game simpler. For example instead of classes YOU now have to decide what you want to be by what you do.

It doesn't have Japanese school girls, dual wielding desert eagles. I'm sure gamesas will correct that in the next console game, though.

Well, there was major dumbing down from Morrowind to Oblivion (and some will argue from Daggerfall to Morrowind). That said, I think Skyrim actually improved on matters. The perk system re-differentiates between weapon types (maces, axes, swords etc), offsetting the merging of weapon skills. The skills it removed weren't particularly prominent anyway, unlike Oblivion's removal of, to name just two, any meaningful enchanting system and spears entirely. It's not what I'd want it to be, but it's set things out a lot better than Oblivion did.

It's still a good game. So it doesn't really matter to me.
AND Morrowind was 'dumbed down' from Daggerfall. So whatcha arguing for? :sadvaultboy:
Schwaga Malaga :homestar:

I can't believe people live on this forum just to belittle a game. Your only ruining your own experience, buds.

People Live on the forum.....rofl.


hey heads up, its a forum, people trade thoughts and have opinions that differ from yours.

and why are we just focusing on stats? have you seen the guilds? 5 quests in the college of winterhold and your already arcmage, 3 contract hits and your already a listener for DB. What part of Skyrim is exactly "biggests and craziest game we've ever made" ?

and because people like to fang you at the slightest hint of not liking something in the game.

Disclaimer I don't hate Skyrim Disclaimer

i would definitely say the rpg side of it is being dumbed down. its pretty obvious IMO. i do not care to much though as the rest of the game is solid. and they're only small things a mod can fix. like i really really wish attributes ere still in the game.

How is strength --> damage 'complicated'?

I leveled up to about level 25 on my assassin by accident, simply by enchanting, smithing and pickpocketing. In order to NOT level up that quickly again, I had to artificially limit my play style to stay a low level. You even level up quickly just by selling items at the vendor, and you say Morrowind/Oblivion is an idiotic way to level?
There is nothing smarter about this new system. It's been easymoded, like world of warcraft was, to appease the console gamers.
The next time we play an elder scrolls game, they will probably remove stamina, change light and heavy armor to just armor because the current system is just far too complicated imo. We will also start off with a colt .45 I imagine. Gotta keep the cod players on the hook.k

Yeah right...the majority of this forum is full of negativity. I'm just saying you could be playing a different game right now instead. And the Guilds are shorter but they are far more immersing then Oblivion. Length does not = Good. But I digress. I'm following my own advice because this forum is starting to ruin my game experience with constant belittling.

(exploding in spontaneous laughter)

Basically, the problem here can be simplified to this: you would prefer just using a calculator then doing the math yourself or even knowing how to. But I would rather not use a calculator and take the longer and harder route and do it myself, even if it means taking 10 times the amount of time. I just find it more fun that way, and more rewarding.

Yes, using a calculator is smarter for efficiency and for accessibility to mathematics, but it is certainly not making people any smarter with logical thinking, just the opposite!

So, you like things being done for you to an extent, but I do not. I guess there is no real way to fix this in making a game, besides making two different ones!

It just will be your way though because it will bring in more money

why do you have to start these threads now? cant we get a week without a dumbed down thread I mean we have 4 years till the next ES game

To clarify a few things...

A RPG is more or less about creating a character, assuming the role of that character, and then going out and exploring a world, interacting with other characters (NPCs).

In Skyrim, character creation is mostly aesthetic, akin to changing your face paint and uniform in Call of Duty.

Then there are the lack of stats that players can change. After each level, players only get to choose 1 of 3 stats to increase and 1 perk. That's ridiculous. What kind of RPG is this? Stats are tools that allow players to extrapolate their characters to paper or to video games. The less stats that can be manipulated, the less complex player-created characters are. This has been pointed out already in this thread, but is worth mentioning again anyway, stats are still there; but most of which can't be touched by players.

Another problem with Skyrim is the dialogue choices. Dialogue choices are superficial. Bethesda may as well just cut these choices out and give players a "continue" button, since most of the dialogue options end up going down the same path anyway.

The above is only good if you're trying to appeal to the 14-year olds that frequent Xbox Live. The type who skips through dialogue, doesn't read any of the lore, etc. In other words, the type who shouldn't be playing RPGs to begin with. But game developers are just like any other company, they want to make money. So Bethesda is trying to broaden their audience by dumbing down the RPG elements. By the way, if you needed a spreadsheet to get through Morrowind, then I think you may have bigger problems than dragons. Just sayin'.

So what is Skyrim? To me it's just a brain dead adventure game/dungeon crawl. You don't get to mess around with many stats, you can't affect the world in any deep way, and most of the dialogue options bring you down the same path. Skyrim doesn't sound like much of a RPG.

I will be short because I don't want to rant to much. I picked yes and it svcks. Simply put I love Skyrim it makes for a great RPG and a great Elder Scrolls game in my opinion. However that goes without saying that I find the lack/removal of key RPG features quite upsetting and I hope that in the next installment Bethesda start putting more features back in the game they took out mainly stats and suchlike. The game feels Elder Scrolls enough for me to love it and I just try not to think to much about the features that have been removed that make it a little less RPG. I won't complain but I hope Bethesda take this into account because to be fair I might give the next TES game a miss if they 'Streamline' any more of the gameplay.

I like when they don't give you the reason for being where you are at the start because it leave open your imagination to create the scenario. For instance, perhaps you were imprisoned because you were homeless on the street and the nobles were sick of you and your filth. Or maybe you were framed by a skilled thief. Or maybe I was causing trouble by using certain magical spells. Or maybe I really was being a bad person! I just find it fun to imagine the scenario as I see fit, and to have the rest of the game allow that to at least be possible in a sense.

but I have to disagree on they they forced on the backround in Skyrim, it is the same as the others, you are assumed a prisoner by the others characters, just like the other games.

Completely agree!

You're disagreeing with a fact?

What I said in this context was not opinion; it is a matter of fact. The NPCs in the cart tell you exactly why you are being held prisoner. :rolleyes:

To everyone complaining about the dialogue choices: Ignoring Morrowind's choices (simply because of the way it was done) I would really like to know what RPGs you guys are playing that give you more than 2 or 3 choices for any given dialogue tree. The reason I do not count Morrowind in this, is because it's dialogue system was basically just a reference of particular topics you've heard; and you still couldn't talk about every topic with every NPC. Actually, come to think of it, there aren't even any choices in dialogue other than "yes" and "no" when presented with a real, legitimate choice.

You're all expecting WAY too much from a video game. Maybe, when Quantum Computers become everyday house-hold items, you will get your wish. All of your wishes. Human-like AI, an infinite range of choices, etc. Until then, if you still think these things are completely possible, program your own game. I guarantee that if you did, with hardware of today, you would make a [censored] load of money off it.

Yeah, there's been dumbing down. Been happening since Morrowind. Thank heavens for mods.

It is a better RPG than either Daggerfall or Morrowind has been to me. I loved the character creation in Daggerfall, and the amount of skills in both of those games. But the actual roleplaying I did was mostly done within my own head. My character feels more like a real person in Skyrim, instead of the silent hero that he has been in the past. If they had created this game with the amount of skills that past games had, then I would not even bother with the old games. I am really hoping they start seperating weapons skills more, and bringing back the weapon types that Daggerfall had.

I want more puzzles too! These are the best dungeons they have ever designed. It's definitely not just about going in with your sword swinging.

TES has always been an Action-RPG, a hybrid genre.

First of all, what is an RPG? The only thing that ever seems to match in anyone's answer is: stats, numbers, and leveling up. There are "Western" RPGs, Japanese RPGs, MMORPGs. All three are quite different in many ways, but they all have three things in common: stats, numbers, and leveling up. If you disagree, then what the heck is an RPG? Because most other things don't need "stats, numbers, and leveling up" to exist, but some RPG players cry when they aren't all included in one complete package.

Now, what is an action game? That's kind of a vague name for a genre. Fighting games, FPS games, several other genres can be classified as "Action" games, but are instead referred to by their specific gameplay elements. But all action games have one thing in common. If your skills as a player are bad, then you will be bad at the game.

Now back to Action-RPGs. They combine elements from two very different, sometimes contradicting gameplay systems. A person who has a high level of player skill can overcome character skill limitations, likewise, a character with a lot of skill doing _____ can compensate for a lack of player skill. And if both the player and their character have high or poor skill doing ____, then what do you think happens? That's right, they will either have no way to do it, or they will excel in it. But this is only the case if the gameplay is set up to allow for this.

Right now, TES seems to be heading in the direction of "player and character strengths will compensate for each other's weaknesses". But the closer you get to one, the farther you get from the other. If the game puts too much focus on "RPG", then it frustrates people who like Action games (and these people are not just "casuals", even if some casuals like Action games). If the game puts too much focus on Action, then it frustrates people who like "RPG".

Bethesda is trying to make a game that appeals to both crowds, but it's not easy. If you want RPG in its purest form, then TES is not the game for you. If you want Action in its purest form, this isn't the game for you. But if you want to play a game that attempts to combine elements from both genres, then TES is a good game for you.

So, all in all, I'd say yes. TES is moving away from "RPG". And that's just fine by me.