"Evolved" is a nice word. When you "evolve" an air force flight simulator into an "After Burner" style game, has it been dumbed down or not? It might be easier to pick up and a lot more flashy and exciting, it might leave you with a more continuous sense of achievement because you constantly manage to finish levels, but answer honestly, has it become less intellectually demanding or not?

"Dumbed down" is the generic response to glorify opposition to changes. I don't agree with all of the changes, but "dumbed down" is just over the top in my opinion, and using wording like that diminishes any logical presentation of an opinion that may have been made.

What a terrible anology.

TES games were never that complex or rooted in any science.

What a terrible anology.

TES games were never that complex or rooted in any science.

Another issue I had with Skyrim was the dialogue options. What you say doesn't seem to impact the world, your character, or NPCs all that much. In other words, dialogue options are more about leading you to some linear encounter or quest as opposed to giving you the opportunity to flesh out your character. To role-play, if you will.

No it doesn't. The logic would still stand. The emotional content of a statement doesn't magically make that statement logically invalid or valid. The statement is either logically invalid or it isn't--and that has nothing to do with sentiments.

I think the perks adds something over Oblivion.

I think the "world" of Skyrim is much more real and fleshed out than Oblivion (in terms of politics, factions and their role on world).

Unfortunately, I can disprove this very easily:

Let's say that I posted: "This game svcks!"

That statement is filled with emotional and opinionated content that overstates the case profoundly, but based on my dissatisfaction with some aspect of the game, I have just labelled the entire thing as terrible.

The emotional content in that statement absolutely does make the opinion (I feel by 'statement' you really mean 'opinion') invalid in the sense of 'logic', because it's an opinion based on a tantrum

Unfortunately, I can disprove this very easily:

Let's say that I posted: "This game svcks!"

The emotional content in that statement absolutely does make the opinion (I feel by 'statement' you really mean 'opinion') invalid in the sense of 'logic', because it's an opinion based on a tantrum

Complex relative to what?

Do you know of any more advanced first-person fantasy RPG sandbox games than the Elder Scrolls games? I don't. Which means the Elder Scrolls games are relatively advanced first-person fantasy RPG sand box games.

But it seems like Bethesda is starting to take the series into the Call of Duty direction.

I doubt it.



Yes, and that statement is either true or false regardless of whether or not the language offends you. That's my point, anyway. So the emotional content of my posts has no bearing on its logic or lack thereof. The logic and facts (or fictions) are separate from the emotional content.



It's an opinion that is based on my game experience. It's an opinion that is either factually accurate or inaccurate.

Ironically, the one who is being emotional here is you.

When has "fire mage" ever been a build? Fire is 1/3 of ONE school of magic.

So yeah, if you're using 1/15 of the spells, you'll be using few spells

.....

I mean, if you dislike that, it would be incredibly easy to add conjuration for summon and bound weapon, illusion for fear/calm/frenzy and paralyze, restoration for healing and wards. Suddenly you have more spells than you can reasonably use.

That's it. The perks that I underlined are the only interesting ones. The others are uninteresting, redundant, and probably should have just been automatic for magic users.

There are also not that many spells--and no spell creation to partially offset that fact. Let's say you made a "fire mage," in the end you'll only end up with a total of 8 spells; and 6 of which are truly unique. To make matters worse, these 6 spells aren't even all that interesting. Basically, there's the projectile spell, the damage shield spell, the DOT spell, and the trap spell. To be fair though, this was also a problem in past Elder Scrolls games; however, in those games players were able to create there own spells.

And the dragon shouts come off as a gimmick to me. Sure, they're visually impressive and fun to use the first few times, but many of them overlap with other skills/spells. The shouts even overlap with each other somewhat. For instance, why are there two cold shouts? Yes, one is primarily for crowd control while the other is for damage, but why weren't they combined into one shout? I think you guys (Bethesda) should have focused more on quality rather than quantity in this regard.

Another issue I had with Skyrim was the dialogue options. What you say doesn't seem to impact the world, your character, or NPCs all that much. In other words, dialogue options are more about leading you to some linear encounter or quest as opposed to giving you the opportunity to flesh out your character. To role-play, if you will.

In conclusion, the Elder Scrolls series is starting to feel more like Duke Nukem than a first-person RPG.

Huh?

Let's stay focused here.

I said that using the anology of a type of simulation streamlined down to a level of an arcade game was a terrible anology, because no TES game is as complex or rooted in science as a simulation.

because a fantasy game is about...FANTASY.

I'm emotional because I think you're so wrong you should win a blue ribbon? That's quite a revelation

Ok a few examples of how stats can add depth to the game (and note that when I say stats, what I basically mean is numbers as used to define your character; not necessarily just the labels that are visible to the player):

- If I make two characters, and both of them walk into the same ancient dungeon and find a really old book written in some kind of ancient language, one of those characters might possess the knowledge to read it, while to the other character it's just nonsense. How does the game determine whether a character has the knowledge? Through numbers / stats.

- If I go and hit an NPC, leave town for a week, then return and speak to the same NPC, will they remember and take a hostile attitude towards me? Again, stats are necessary to determine this.

- If I make several characters, and all of them need to break into the same castle, each one might try and enter in a different way. One might bribe the guard, one might try and climb the wall, one might overpower the guard and take his key, one might sneak in through a back entrance, etc. Stats determine what your character can and can't do, what their strengths and weaknesses are, etc. Which in turn has an impact on their actions.


In an ideal RPG, i'd want everything the character can possibly do to be determined by stats. Every single thing about them should be uniquely defined to make them as complex as possible... and to make their interactions with the gameworld as complex as possible.

I do believe the series has been getting simpler and simpler to appeal to a less motivated audience.

As a random for-instance, armor. In Morrowind you had left and right gauntlets, left and right pauldrons, boots, greaves, cuirass, and helm. In Skyrim you have boots, gauntlets, "armor", and helm. The available slots for armor have been halved, and as a result, your ability to customize your appearance or enchantments has also been halved. Morrowind also allowed you to wear clothing and armor together. Heck, it let you wear a skirt as a male character if you wanted to (standard uniform for the Legion). Maybe not all people really took advantage of all the options, but there were options. I loved to wear a newtscale cuirass over an exquisite shirt; it looked very nice. You can't do anything like that anymore.

Another for-instance: equipment maintenance. You no longer have to worry about your equipment wearing out. There's now one less "consumable" item that you have to worry about while adventuring. Running out of tools to maintain your gear used to be a real thing: do you go back and get more tools, or do you press forward and hope your weapon doesn't fall apart before you can get back to civilization?

Magic. They took away the ability to make your own spells. Their pre-made options all look very nice, but because you can't actually change anything you are not a master of magic you are a magic consumer. You buy a spell off the shelf and it just works. And if there's not a spell that does what you want it to do well, tough luck. Half the spell effects from previous games are simply gone.

Several things that many players saw as complexity and annoyance, a more dedicated roleplayer saw as immersion and and freedom. So, is Skyrim "dumbed down"? Yes. It's still a good game, certainly more polished than their previous offerings. But the removal of gameplay elements and the removal of many ways for your character to be an individual has resulted in a simpler experience that is more hack and slash and less strategy, roleplay, or thought.

Morrowind is still Bethesda's greatest game ever.

I think you have used poor examples for the use of stats.

Your first one is about knowledge which isn't about stats (least not purely), its about what a person/character may have or haven't learned, and how good a memory they have, and the opportunity to put it to use.

The second is partly about memory (on the part of the NPC), and there's other things involved like did you go back disguised or not, or wearing different clothes ect, are you using illusion spells. Stats can help, but knowledge, memory, and use of spells and/or skills on both for both parties, can over come useing stats.

And your third example, whilst a bit, theres more to a character than stats alone (the same can be said about skills). stats can play a part, but not by themselves, theres more to making a character than stats, skills are just as important, how the character acts, that he/she does or doesn't do.

It's gone from being a role playing game to a combat centered adventure game

I have to agree with this guy. OP, if your build is so focussed on one small piece of one school of magic, I am not sure what you are expecting. If anything, I think your post proves how awesome Skyrim is. You can focus on specializing in 6 spells. Or you can branch out if you like. Skyrim is not stopping you.