ok, skyrim is a good game, and its also a good elder scrolls game. but now that im through i cant stop thinking ive seen all of it before, only with older graphics.

same basic gameplay mechanics, same guilds, same daedra lords, same artifacts, same lore (dwemer!), same books, same skills, same activities. ok dragons are new (mean people compare them to oblivion gates and cliffracers) and also are shouts but they only make up for the lack of magic. to me the only really new things are the followers and marriage. which are cool but could need some more depth. oh and jobs are fine.

does anyone think the TES formula needs a general overhaul? im not sure about it. surely il like some fresh elements which reach deep into the core of the game, but im scared beth might totally ruin it (anyone saw the jump splinter cell made from DA to convicttion?). they might take "overhaul" as "complete streamlining".

also i dunno if i had looked over this if my two main complaints (how they handled magic and the lack of choice, like conflicting guilds) had been handled better.

opinions?

If they would have just kept the scope and complexity of the original TES games like Daggerfall they would be just fine. Instead they remove more and more from the formula that become troublesome to implement or for console considerations.

I really do not see your complaint...everything that you mentioned that is the 'same old stuff' is the bread and butter of TES.

You want them to completely throw out all the lore and history of Tamriel and Nirn?

They cant add new gods, history, and artifacts
Theres no such thing as new artifacts and history

no he is just saying that they dont need to repeat the same stuff every single time, like the deadric artifacts have hardly changed since morrowind

no, but maybe they could work out rarely seen aspects of it.

Your telling me you want new stuff like fallout new Vegas had new factions and stuff? I don't quite get it,

Cheers

They need to add ride-able wargs, and flying griffons. Also gnomes and steam punk artwork. Also oversized armors with and japanese anime swords and stuff.

Can't just add artifacts though.

fair enough, I would like them to expand on a few things

All they need to do in this regard is dip into lore and throw "will the average player understand this?" out the window, because come on there are people who couldn't give a halfs worth of what the story and people in. and for those that do its a nice ant lion nest.

yeah, why not. vegas world was amazing. no unkillable quest givers plus fractions excluding each other. and multiple ways to every goal. its weakness was the "master of everything" character customization. if youd mix the way vegas world was built with tes lore and character developement, id love it.

While I agree that it could use a combat overhaul, some of your examples and your reasoning behind the change (it's not "fresh") are poor. If the mechanics were good I'd play the same game until something better came along. I still do go back to play games which have better mechanics compared to sequels or modern imitators.

I think they essentially could make up some new history. We've corrected our history books after cross-referencing source materials or finding new archeological evidence. You could easily do some "this myth turned out to be true" stuff and some "we've believed this for 800 years and it turned out to be 800 year old propaganda" stuff. You would have to be careful not to go overboard with it, but a little might be fun and certainly wouldn't make things unrealistic.

maybe not a complete overhaul, but i get your meaning. i think skyrim feels so "samey" because its using the same hardware as the last game, whereas from daggerfall to morrowind to oblivion were huge technological leaps. the daedric quests were slightly less formulaic this time though.

really, bethesda just needs to work on improving and expanding the mechanics of the game that are already there and not relying on such formulaic questlines. as it is, every game has mostly just gotten prettier in direct proportion to the mechanics getting less substantial.

we get it, you can make pretty 3D models... now work on the game part please :spotted owl: .

There are parts of it that need overhauls, definitely.

Melee combat in particular. Shield bashing added a lot but other than that it's still extremely basic, awkward looking/feeling, and unrewarding. Alchemy also needs an overhaul, and their list of effects has a lot that needs to be junked(fortify skill entirely) as well as a lot that could be added. And they also just need to balance skills/combat way better. Every game so far has been so full of exploitable mechanics and extremely overpowered effects and so on, that you can barely avoid them without limiting yourself from using several skills at all. Their formula for armor calculation is bad, being able to get near 100% resist or cast time reduction is bad, the damage is all over the place, it looks like no one really tests their numbers.

It depends what you mean by overhaul really.. They can always improve on things, but I definitely wouldn't want them to change any of the core aspects that make Elder Scrolls games what they are (pretty much everything you mentioned in your second paragraph lol). They can always add stuff to the formula without breaking the lore too much. I know you're saying that you feel the games are all a bit samey, but I honestly think they've done a good job expanding on things in Skyrim. Whether it's the lore that's already there (the Dwemer, and in turn the Falmer), or whether it's completely new additions (such as The Companions, and the College of Winterhold).

The part I think they've messed up with Skyrim is simply the things that they've removed, and in some cases replaced. A lot of people cite spellcrafting, which is a good example. Sure, it was broken as hell in Oblivion and completely destroyed any sense of balance that the game might have had, but it offered a lot of freedom to a class that can sometimes be quite restrictive.

As for things they've replaced, I mentioned The Companions and The College of Winterhold before. Those are more or less just replacements for the Fighter's Guild and Mage's Guild respectively. I don't think that was a particularly good move. Oblivion's Fighter's Guild and Mage's Guild questlines were better. Certainly the Mage's Guild questlines anyway, if I'm honest I actually preferred The Companions to Oblivion's Fighters Guild. The thing that makes it lesser despite my personal opinion is the sheer lack of content.

I think in an ideal world we'd have had the Fighter's Guild AND The Companions. The Mage's Guild AND the College of Winterhold. And that could have played into the idea of conflicting guilds that you mentioned. But I'm being somewhat ignorant to the amount of work required when making these games, that would probably have been too much of an undertaking for Bethesda. And to be honest despite the fact that the guild quests in Skyrim are lighter on content than the ones in previous Elder Scrolls games, I think Bethesda more than made up for that with other areas of the game. Skyrim is definitely the biggest game of their's that I have played in terms of the sheer amount of content.

they could add one or two without much of a problem. But a whole new set of daedric artifacts would be just wrong. But this is tes, you can't forget all of this lore.. There is no redoing history.

umm... why not? the current artifacts have history sure, but they are made by daedric freaking princes. sheogorath can make it rain flaming dogs and molag bal can resurrect you just to f**k with some guys head: im pretty sure they could make new artifacts if they wanted.

I think the trouble is more the lack of depth in what's there rather than adding or removing.

The history isn't bad because it's old, but because unlike real histories, everyone agrees on everything. Compare that to our world in which we had a cold war and there are thousands interpretations of what happened and when and why. One side's hero is another side's villian. Even in current events you get that somewhat -- talk with a democrat and a republican about just about anything and the views are 180 apart. In Nirnish history, Talos runs around conquering just about all of Tamriel, and to read the history available, almost everyone thinks it was a good idea. There are some minor rumblings about the acrturian heresy, but no one who says "
we were better off independant without the Empire" That's something to take a hard look at. I'd also add a bit about the point of view of some of the historical losers -- What do Khajiit think about the empire allowing slavery in Morrowind?

Comabt wise, I'd work on the balance, maybe find some good puzzles to add. bring back the spells. Possibly breakage of armour as well as making new. stuff like that.

personally i think they should just end it and start with a new IP. games arent any different than movies in that you can only do so many sequels before it just gets redundant. i had so much more fun in fallout 3 and fallout NV than any TES game and i think its mostly because it was a new world for me. i couldnt play the original fallout games because i cant stand turn based combat. as great a game as skyrim is i keep comparing it to morrowind and oblivion because so much of it is familiar. they really need to start another fantasy IP up.

Except those movies barely have the backstory that the elder scrolls has.

There is no redundancy here, that is only your own problem to with.

I voted 'No'. Unless a series is known for its regular overhauls, a la Final Fantasy, the developers do best when they stick to the 'old' formula and just make tweaks here and there.

I think it could benefit from a good overhaul in a few areas. Mainly the Depth of the combat system, and the polish to it.
here are some ideas i think would be beneficial. just my 2 cents....

[*](Archery) - Complete with a perk tree like in Skyrim, only also adding in even deeper, richer sub branches to the category. Possibly adding in a selection of special abilities one could train and select from to perk with.
[*](Example: Perk to draw 3 arrows that fan out in a cone in front of you, usable 3 times a day, with a special keystroke: mousewheel up)

[*](Spellcasting) - Spells in Elder scrolls feel like they have so much unused potential that's gone wasted! Maybe in the future we could have a sort of "Learned spell system" or something where a player can mix and match new spells and create spells out of a possible bank of options. This could work similar to alchemy experimenting, only have the effects of something like we see in the game "Magika" when you combine spells. This could create a whole new demension of depth to the Elder Scrolls Series of magic! Again, like the archery tree we would have a big perk tree only with more branches, and sub branches!
[*]Another Idea I've always liked to see possibly implemented for spells is the idea of "Drawing" them in the air to initiate a changed version of the spell. For instance. Say the Spell "Flame" shoots flame when cast, but if you hold down "Flame" and make a Triangle Shape in the air and then cast, it does something special, like a Flame Wall!

[*](Fighting) - I love the combat in The Elder Scrolls, but I feel that it could be taken to the next level if time were committed to implementing a few additions.
[*]First: The option to "Parry" with a single weapon. This could be done several ways, but just an example of one way here: The button would be mouse wheel Up, or a Trigger button on the consoles. Performing a parry would not block all damage, but perhaps mitigate it slightly, or allow for a short window where a double tap of the attack button could allow for a "Riposte" or counter-attack type of strike. This would really enhance the depth of the gameplay for people who choose do dual wield, or wield a weapon and a spell, and can even still be used for players who use 2handers or a shield and weapon.

[*]Also, as with the archery and Spellcasting trees, The Fighting skill tree could use a bit of complexity into it. Give us some more options to distinguish the style of combat when using different weapons. Perhaps add a unique Special type of power attack depending on the type of one hander, (Each weapon type could simply have its own unique animation, effect, benefit, and risk to using it. for example, a thrusting sword attack that strikes a vital spot on the enemy, slowing it, but slowing you if you miss! A Hammer blow that confuses the enemy and makes him attack anything nearby, but staggers you if you miss! A powerful Axe Chop that disarms the opponent or weakens their damage output for a short time, but causes you to lose stamina if you miss!

[*]Second: Possibly add in an option for players to "kick" an enemy. (Like in Dark Messiah) that would open up whole new possibilites and tactics to push back enemies and position them for further attacks or enviromental effects (kicking them into a spiked wall, or over a cliff so they fall)
[*]_______________
[*]Quest need to be able to be managed better, I hate to say it, but give us a good ole Journal and let the player choose what to accept and "write down" or "rip out and throw away" (aka dropping a quest) - You could SO do this in a nice, neat, Elder Scrolls RP'ish way where its neat and customizable.
[*]Update the Inventory with new menu, possibly give us a "Backpack" type of deal, a Special Slot for weapons and armor, a pouch for ingrediants and misc items, a key chain for our keys or lockpicks, and another slot for our books. Give us features to sort things how we want to, manually, alphabetical, whatever
[/list]

The two biggest changes are the entire reason I voted no.

Dual-wielding
Dragons

The series feels new to me, but I guess I wasn't expect a completely different game.

It is, after all, The Elder Scrolls.