The Elder Scrolls Novels Thread #6

Post » Fri May 27, 2011 10:00 am

If I drew a Venn diagram of "People who read books" and "people who are interested in reading a book based on a video game series," the overlap would be incredibly itsy bitsy teentsy weentsy. As small as Todd's perceived estimation of the mod users for TESIV.

Eh... I don't really agree with you.. I mean I get your point, but people could simply pick this book up without knowing it is based off a video game and be wowed. If they market it correctly that is.

EDIT: this is also why Beth hired keyes to write the book. Known author..
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Bones47
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 2:48 am

Because, like syronj said, they weren't aiming at the hardcoe lore fanatics of TES, but the general population. If it had been written by a loremaster it would of most likely (IMO) been boring or made no sense to the average TES playing John Doe.

lol

1). the ingame books weren't really boring
2). even if he is writing for the general population(which i doubt will be buying this) from what i've read, that's not an excuse to have something that seems like it could have been in my schools creative writing student book.
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emma sweeney
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 12:53 pm

lol

1). the ingame books weren't really boring
2). even if he is writing for the general population(which i doubt will be buying this) from what i've read, that's not an excuse to have something that seems like it could have been in my schools creative writing student book.


The fictional ingame books aren't boring, but everything else is relatively hard going. We should also keep in mind that the Argonian friend Glim is a throwaway character; I don't think he's one of the four party-members who are mentioned as being in the main quest of the book. Keyes was only setting the stage for the character Annaig and for Tamriel.

"And it is in Umbriel’s shadow that a great adventure begins, and a group of unlikely heroes meet. A legendary prince with a secret. A spy on the trail of a vast conspiracy. A mage obsessed with his desire for revenge. And Annaig, a young girl in whose hands the fate of Tamriel may rest . . . ."
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Pants
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 10:09 am

lol

1). the ingame books weren't really boring
2). even if he is writing for the general population(which i doubt will be buying this) from what i've read, that's not an excuse to have something that seems like it could have been in my schools creative writing student book.

As before stated many of those books weren't written by a lore master but by another author. Hence why some of the books aren't boring. (as I stated later)

And it is YOUR OPINION that you do not like the writing. Get over yourself people. Other people in this thread including me DO, you DO NOT have to bash a man's lifework simply because "you don't like his style". And if you do, you could at least be POLITE about it. It was a chapter or less of text, yet you seem to be judging keyes skill entirely on it.
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Campbell
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 7:19 am

To continue:


As she stood, something wisped through the air near her, and a shriek tore out of her throat.


Now, as a journeyman in the martial arts, I would like to submit that when a throwing weapon or projectile weapon of any kind of the hand thrown variety passes near your ear, it does NOT 'wisp'. You need speed to get that wisp, and only arrows can do that. Or you need large air volume displacement - think of a fan vibrated at high speed - and hand thrown projectile weapons do not have large air volume displacement.

Keyes, whatever else he is, is not - I strongly suspect - a martial artist.

How are you convinced that it was a throwing weapon or projectile?
It's a 'something' that's all we know from the blurb....could've been a misfired spell etc..
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Bad News Rogers
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 3:00 pm

Try about 8 pages. It's not a large sampling, but it's certainly enough to tell me what I assumed from the get go: It's really not worth reading unless you seriously are in love with the series.

People are saying that he's writing for a larger audience so that more people become interested. Well that's a horrible excuse given the writing quality. And he doesn't really do anything with the TES world anyway. This is just another adventure novel. It doesn't make me interested whatsoever. Where's the awesome lore this dude could have taken advantage of? That said, I'll still probably read it just because it's TES.

Yeah I agree with you i'll reserve full judgment for when I finish reading it( really hope the writing improves).

@thatoneguy


I think a lot of us came in with some above average expectations is because there were those who checked our Keyes other novels when everyone else was paranoid he wouldn't be a good writer and said he was good. For a lot of us we expected this to be a trashy video game novel and I read excepts from the Briar King(it was good) to see if he was okay and after reading tIC excerpt it was like a self-fulfilling prophecy.
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Adam Porter
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 10:50 am

As before stated many of those books weren't written by a lore master but by another author. Hence why some of the books aren't boring. (as I stated later)

Wait, what? The in-game books were written by the devs at Bethesda. Doesn't that make them "lore masters"? :huh:

Also, I would imagine that it would state on the back cover or somewhere early in the book (such as the Forward) that it is about the TES universe "based on the award winning TESIV: Oblivion blah blah blah."
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Dark Mogul
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 3:54 am

Touche, about "Oblivion". Also, Ted Peterson is a good writer and wrote a lot of the in-game books that you like.

Let's not get into a flame war about the novel, when we haven't read the whole book yet. I agree that the Argonian comes across as almost too human. I wonder, though, if Annaig and he could have been talking in Hist? We don't know that they were speaking Cyrodiilic.

I like the portrayal of the Imperials remaining in Black Marsh. Although I'm no historian, it reminds me of the Romano-Britons who remained after the collapse of the Roman Empire in the 5th century CE. Some returned to Rome, but other families had been living in the colonies for centuries, and stayed. Just as with the fall of Rome, the Imperial remnants of Black Marsh can't get used to there no longer being a Pax Romana.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pax_Romana


While he was a senior designer in 1996 that doesn't mean he was a loremaster.

http://www.giantbomb.com/ted-peterson/72-15617/
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Loane
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 5:30 pm

As before stated many of those books weren't written by a lore master but by another author. Hence why some of the books aren't boring. (as I stated later)

And it is YOUR OPINION that you do not like the writing. Get over yourself people. Other people in this thread including me DO, you DO NOT have to bash a man's lifework simply because "you don't like his style". And if you do, you could at least be POLITE about it. It was a chapter or less of text, yet you seem to be judging keyes skill entirely on it.


1). They could have used those authors
2). I said I would wait until the book comes out to judge it fully and the writing REALLY is below average. I'm not even trying to sound elitist when I say this,but i've read works a lot better than that and if it weren't for me wanting to know what happens after Oblivion I wouldn't even pick it up.

Also Keyes is an author, he knows he is going to be criticized.
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Kayla Bee
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 4:31 am

Wait, what? The in-game books were written by the devs at Bethesda. Doesn't that make them "lore masters"? :huh:

Also, I would imagine that it would state on the back cover or somewhere early in the book (such as the Forward) that it is about the TES universe "based on the award winning TESIV: Oblivion blah blah blah."

It says it on the front lol so no random person is going to pick it up without knowing what universe they are getting themselves into lol
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Your Mum
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 6:47 pm

It says it on the front lol so no random person is going to pick it up without knowing what universe they are getting themselves into lol

Again, you assume someone who hasn't played or heard of video games isn't going to pick it up.

EDIT: Curse my spelling/grammar today... ugh.
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Heather Kush
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 6:29 am

Again, you assume someone who hasn't played or heard of video games is going to pick it up.

I've stated multiple times and once in this thread that only the hardcoe fans of the series are going to be into this.
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Laura-Lee Gerwing
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 7:43 am

I've stated multiple times and once in this thread that only the hardcoe fans of the series are going to be into this.

But you have no proof of that is my point. You don't know that.
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Neliel Kudoh
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 3:37 pm

What "they said" sounds like the most idiotic marketing plan ever. :rolleyes:

Still, how much did Bethesda pay this Keyes dude to make the novel? Why couldn't that money have been used for TESV's development, or for awesome merchandise (Daedric Alphabet keyboard, NECA action figure series, sountracks, art books, etc)?

Or a comic book? Given how visual video games are, using a comic book as a medium makes sense, since it is also a visual medium. I can think of a dozen pencilers, inkers, and colorists who'd do a fantastic job.

Didn't they do that with Redguard? This is probably the only time I'll endorse a comic book, but it would have been a good idea, cost less, and irritated far fewer people. A comic book is short, relatively throwaway, a taster, for fun. It fits the medium of videogames. A book is supposed to be a good read in its own right. More is expected of it.

If I drew a Venn diagram of "People who read books" and "people who are interested in reading a book based on a video game series," the overlap would be incredibly itsy bitsy teentsy weentsy. As small as Todd's perceived estimation of the mod users for TESIV.
Probably true. I read books, I play games, but rarely do the two overlap, cos' when you do, you get crap like this.


As before stated many of those books weren't written by a lore master but by another author. Hence why some of the books aren't boring. (as I stated later)

And it is YOUR OPINION that you do not like the writing. Get over yourself people. Other people in this thread including me DO, you DO NOT have to bash a man's lifework simply because "you don't like his style". And if you do, you could at least be POLITE about it. It was a chapter or less of text, yet you seem to be judging keyes skill entirely on it.

Actually, many of those ingame books were written by Loremasters. MK didn't just write the sermons, y'know?

And yes, we are perfectly entitled to bash a man's lifework if we are the target and the work is substandard. You publish something, you accept people will crticise it, its that simple.

I'd be interested in seeing what an ordinary reviewer thinks of the writing, without the bias of TES fandom. I'm fairly sure he'd reach the same conclusion as us.
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Andy durkan
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 4:24 pm

But you have no proof of that is my point. You don't know that.

If you want to play it that way, then we'll wait to see how well the book does to see if i'm right or not.
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Alyesha Neufeld
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 8:00 am

Maybe this kids' prose will change as the story progresses, or when all uncool argonians die? They are just local urchins at this point, maybe after the world pisses on them they'll grow?

You know, because the characters usually undergo some change as a good story progresses?
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Flash
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 3:30 am

Didn't they do that with Redguard? This is probably the only time I'll endorse a comic book, but it would have been a good idea, cost less, and irritated far fewer people. A comic book is short, relatively throwaway, a taster, for fun. It fits the medium of videogames. A book is supposed to be a good read in its own right. More is expected of it.

Probably true. I read books, I play games, but rarely do the two overlap, cos' when you do, you get crap like this.



Actually, many of those ingame books were written by Loremasters. MK didn't just write the sermons, y'know?

And yes, we are perfectly entitled to bash a man's lifework if we are the target and the work is substandard. You publish something, you accept people will crticise it, its that simple.

I'd be interested in seeing what an ordinary reviewer thinks of the writing, without the bias of TES fandom. I'm fairly sure he'd reach the same conclusion as us.


lol I was thinking of saying the same to Nighthawk earlier since I don't think this book will be well received by critics and i'm a lot of them will end along the lines of


"if you're looking for a good read this isn't it, but if you're a hardcoe fan of the series then you'll probably go ahead and get this"
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Brian Newman
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 5:34 pm

The writing is rather poor yes, but I liked the setting and the Characters, and the "Were-Crocodile" story felt like something out of an In-game book. So I'll say I liked it, but my expectations were a bit low and I'll reserve my judgment until I actually get the book.
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Nany Smith
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 8:24 am

The writing is rather poor yes, but I liked the setting and the Characters, and the "Were-Crocodile" story felt like something out of an In-game book. So I'll say I liked it, but my expectations were a bit low and I'll reserve my judgment until I actually get the book.


I agree; we shouldn't squabble about the book when we haven't read it yet.
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Danger Mouse
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 6:52 am

I agree; we shouldn't squabble about the book when we haven't read it yet.

The problem is, a taster, or a first chapter, is supposed to draw you in, whereas this made me feel like the Author was retarded.
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James Baldwin
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 5:23 am

What "they said" sounds like the most idiotic marketing plan ever. :rolleyes:

Except that's not the point, regardless of its veracity. I came to terms with the entirety of the whole non-dev-written video game book situation about five months ago. The point is: It's still a real-life novel based on a video game, which generally has only a slight bit more merit for its genre than movies based on video games. Read as: not much merit at all. And the fact that it's not written by Tedders-who-is-htarogoehS or Confrator Kirkbride or even the Esteemed Professor Hasphat KK Antabolis, but instead by someone who has relatively recently started exploring TIL and playing Oblivion, means that I cannot realistically expect it to be of the same caliber as even the more fiction-oriented books in-game.

@thatoneguy


I think a lot of us came in with some above average expectations is because there were those who checked our Keyes other novels when everyone else was paranoid he wouldn't be a good writer and said he was good. For a lot of us we expected this to be a trashy video game novel and I read excepts from the Briar King(it was good) to see if he was okay and after reading tIC excerpt it was like a self-fulfilling prophecy.

:shrug: I neglected to read Keyes's other work. I meant to, but I never did get around to it. So I'm speaking from a very clean-slate perspective. I have no idea what his other writing is like.
But anyone who is experiencing a self-fulfilling prophecy has set that prophecy in motion themselves.
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ImmaTakeYour
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 4:38 am

The problem is, a taster, or a first chapter, is supposed to draw you in, whereas this made me feel like the Author was retarded.


It would have been stupider to have the criminal really be a werecrocodile. It was more realistic to have the would-be adventurer/would-be rogue Annaig stumble onto common criminals instead.
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^_^
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 7:47 am

It would have been stupider to have the criminal really be a werecrocodile. It was more realistic to have the would-be adventurer/would-be rogue Annaig stumble onto common criminals instead.

Frankly I don't give a damn about Wercrocodiles or Skooma, it was the author's quality of prose that made me think he was retarded.
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naana
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 9:52 am

Eh, the writing isn't going to win any awards, but it's legible, and it doesn't read like it's talking down to the reader, so I'll probably be fine with it. And most importantly, this little blurb does seem like enough research has been put in by the author, so the book looks like it will at least feel like it took place in TES. There's nothing more annoying than reading a book that's set in a preexisting setting, and yet feels nothing like that setting.

So, I'll probably pick up the book.

It is interesting, though, that Keyes seems to have written this book with the assumption that only prior fans of TES will read it. Typically, you would expect an author to work in a brief explanation of any in-setting words that a reader may not be familiar with (simple things like 'Khajit' or 'Dunmer', for instance). If I had handed that excerpt to someone not familiar with TES, they likely would have been profoundly confused. Of course, that might not be the case in the full book, but it does look that way from what we have so far.
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Vickey Martinez
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 5:31 am

It is interesting, though, that Keyes seems to have written this book with the assumption that only prior fans of TES will read it. Typically, you would expect an author to work in a brief explanation of any in-setting words that a reader may not be familiar with (simple things like 'Khajit' or 'Dunmer', for instance). If I had handed that excerpt to someone not familiar with TES, they likely would have been profoundly confused. Of course, that might not be the case in the full book, but it does look that way from what we have so far.


He's going easier on the reader than you might think. In "The Kingdoms of Thorn and Bone" he introduces many words and factions with little explanation, until you pick up more information during the course of the series. For example, he begins "The Briar King" with a huge battle between human ex-slaves and the demonic race that had been their masters. The mage queen leading the human rebellion is an advlt Virginia Dare from the lost colony of Roanoke -- no explanation at first of how the colony was transported to this alien world. And this is only the start of the four-book series, which quickly flashes forward to a couple of thousand years later. The series works a lot better than this sounds.
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Nick Tyler
 
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