Maybe if they're a good leader, I mean were their direct heirs to Ceasar?vNo, were their complete wackjob emperors? Yes, but we're they all bad no.

I still think it's a shame the Devs totally forgot about Andorak Septim. Technically, he wasn't a true Septim, being the son of an adoptive member of that family, but being as his father, who wasn't a Septim either, had ruled, then it can't be ruled out that one of Andorak's descendants has a right to the Imperial throne.

Where was he at the time of Oblivion then?

Well, considering that Andorak, then his descendants, came to control the Kingdom of Shornhelm, then it's easy to say that he/she was in High Rock.

Well, what if he was kilied in battle against the Daedra, or assassinated?

I don't think you understand what I'm trying to get at. I'm trying to say that the "wonderful" idea of having Martin be the final, heroic, Septim is rather stupid, when it's an established fact that there are cadet branches of the Septim family, the rulers of Shornhelm being one.

Heck, some of the Septim emperors could only draw a tiny bit of ancestry to Tiber Septim.

I'm not a lore expert or anything but I remember reading a book where the Emperor was a Dunmer Woman? So theres Dunmer blood in the Septims?

Katariah, the Empress Regent. She was not a Septim, rather she was married to one, Pelagius III, aka Pelegius the Mad. She was made Empress Regent when her husband was commited. She is not related to any of the Septims. But this can be interpreted that since the Emperor (Pelagius) was still alive, she didn't have to deal with the esoteric aspect of the Imperial title.

Did they hae kids?

Andorak lived over a hundred years ago in the 3rd Era. His descandants still rule the kingdom.

Wait...editing.

Yes, Katariah and Pelagius had a son, Cassynder. Who did become Emperor. And he was half-elven. But then he died with no children, so his half-brother became Emperor Uriel IV. He was not a true blood relation to Tiber Septim, yet he was still able to reign as Emperor. Andorak is Uriel IV's son, but he was disinherited and Cephorous II became Emperor, because he was a closer match to the Septim line. There, see that! Not all the Septims have been direct descendats from Tiber, heck, some weren't even blood related.

And in the matter of the death of Katariah, in a border skirmish in Argonia, the books say that her death was very well caused by murder, from a "disenfranchised branch of the Septim family." Like I've said, their are cadet branches of the Septim line.

So Oblivion makes no sense, how can there be no heir if theres still royal family members? I mean was Uriel even a direct descendant to Tiber?

Uriel VII is the son of Pelagius IV, who was son of Empress Morihatha, who was sister to Uriel VI. But I do not believe Uriel VII is a direct descendant of Tiber Septim, he, like most of the Septim Emperors, seems to be members of cadet branches of Tiber's orignal line.

Therefore, the only thing keeping the citizens united under the son of a god is ignorance?

Not exaclty. The Septim Emperors are not the only people to have worn the Amulet of Kings. The thing relating to the "Heirs of our conjoined blood" is not saying that all people have to be related to the Alessian Emperors, Reman's line, or the Septim line. It seems to infer that you have to have the right to rule. However, the government works differently that the esoteric world, so it would make TOTAL sense for their to be more members of the Septim dynasty. Thus, more Emperors, and a continuation of the Empire.

It's just the Devs being lazy or ignorant of their own lore. And they needed for their little plot.

Quick correct. Pelagius IV was not Morihath's son, but was Morihath's sister's son. Her name was Eloisa.

There is truth in blood. But it is not the truth you seek.

Seconded. It isn't up to a holy, unmarred bloodline to determine the Emperor. Its the http://www.imperial-library.info/fsg/nazzarticle05.shtml, or Amulet of Kings, which determines who rules from White-Gold Tower.

That's not to say the standards are higher...

When quoting that for a question asker, you really need to cite the source, so they know you're actually referencing a quote and not just being cryptic for the sake of being cryptic.

Ok, yeah, but that is the esoteric aspect of the Imperial title. It does not take into account the very gritty reality that the government of Tamriel needs a leader, and that there are likely other Septims.

The chief executive doesn't necessarily need to be an "Emperor", however. In the interim, while they search for an emperor, the Council could appoint a reagent. And if there's no good candidates, the Council could end up treating the regency like sort of a prime minister. They could even appoint as emperor someone who is willing to take a largely ceremonial head-of-state role, while leaving the actual head-of-government functions to the reagent.

That assumes, of course, that the Legion doesn't take matters into their own hands, basically forcing a new emperor on the Council.

I was only agreeing with the goodly Lord Dagon that bloodlines of gout-festered idiots don't determine rights to the throne. I was not saying an Emperor needs to be cosmicaly aware of their place in the world to be a money grubbing, war waging, conniving beurocrat.


The Emperor is largely ceremonial, because the Elder Council has been the true power in the capitol for a while, at least during Uriel VII's reign. I barely know any other Emperors by name, so sorry for not pinpointing the years the Council truely began flexing its muscle. I also think you over estimate the Legion's loyalty to the Emperor, many in the Legion are Orcs and assorted mercenaries, iirc.

Actually, the bloodline does determine right to the throne. As can be seen be seen by the Elder Council disinheriting Uriel IV's son so they could have an Emperor more closely related to Tiber Septim.



The Elder Council has been waxing and waning for years. They were constantly gaining power until Uriel VI. Until him, they were the ones that controlled Tamriel, with the Emperor only having the right to veto. Uriel VI used both the veto, and threatening council members so that they would do things his way. Empress Morihatha followed a similar pattern, as did Pelagius IV. Uriel VII was truly an Emperor in the sense of ultimate authority, his word is law; no one gainsays an Emperor.

The Emperor is also the leader of all the Legions. And the Legions are made up of whatever race is most abundant in the Province they're in. But most of the Legions seem to be made up of Cyrodiilic Humans, Nords, and Redguards. Orcs got only recently accepted into being non-monsters and citizens of the Empire.

The future of the Empire depends on a lot of factors that, unfortunately, weren't really addressed in Oblivion. We don't have a sense of how the government operates, how loyal the legions are to the Septim bloodline, how closely they were controlled by the central government, etc. It could well be that absolutely nothing changes in the provinces with the weakening of central authority. What might evolve is a society something like the Holy Roman Empire or medieval France (Tamriel was already probably headed in that direction anyway) where a titular emperor or king exists but power actually lies in the hands of various local nobility.

The idea that the whole Empire is done simply because there is no Septim heir (something which is almost statistically impossible in and of itself, but I'll go ahead and go along with Bethesda's story for the sake of argument) seems ridiculous. I can't really think of any real world examples where a power vacuum is left without someone to fill it. The Imperial City and Cyrodiil itself seem to be in good shape despite the OB crisis; it's not as though they were conquered by a foreign power. Someone will take power, whether as a puppet of the council or in their own right. Their success or failure at maintaining the Empire in its current form depends entirely on the loyalty of the legions, but I think certainly at least Cyrodiil will continue to exist under the banner of "the Empire." I'm not one of those who believes that the Amulet of Kings has much to do with it one way or the other. The story of the Amulet of Kings was certainly useful in promoting loyalty to the Septim line, but ultimately it's the legions that will decide whether the Empire survives or crumbles.

I think you are mistaken where we disagree, if we disagree at all which I don't think we do...


I was only entertaining the possibility, that many soldiers will not have the same gung ho, desire to serve a shadow of the Septims or the patience to remain in the Legion for Council politics.