I mean don't be biased againsts it or make assumptions, but is the Empire really falling apart?

There are groups in every province who don't pay any attention to it, and it can no longer enforce them. Some of them are quite influential. The entirety of Summerset Isle and Black Marsh do not allow the empire to make decisions for them, and the empire there is almost non-existant. It's the same with most of Morrowind, the whole of northern Skyrim, and large areas of High Rock, Hammerfell, and Elsweyr. Even in Cyrodiil, it seems that some lands are controlled by the Renrijra Krin.

Of course, those groups have always existed. But now the empire cannot hold them back. So, yes, it is falling apart. We saw that a Telvanni managed to begin an actual rebellion in Mehrunes Razor, even whilst Morrowind is fighting a civil war, and we see the lack of military forces the empire has as they do nothing about the Renrijra Krin - Leyawiin is said to stand alone.

Well, falling apart may be an over-or-under-statement (We Won't have the clearest picture until TES:V) But the Empire certainly isn't in good shape, as most likely roads have been destroyed, cities lost, and resource production has most likely been curtailed across the board. WHat will happen to the Empire depends largely on how the populace acts in the aftermath of the oblivion crisis. I.E. A new sense of unity could bring prosperity to the ravaged continent, or they could plummet into a dark age.

Also, as gallowglass said, the Empire has been steadily losing its power over the provinces, so theres a possibility for outright war among the provinces, but it really depends on how people act post-oblivion crisis.

There already is a war between the provinces. The Nords and Orcs are fighting a war against the Redoran of Morrowind, and northern Elsweyr is fighting a war against Leyawiin.

I think with leyawiin its more of a insurgency, but good point.

I'd say so. Personally, I think the empire has rotted from within. Take a look at the situation in Vvardenfell. The Great Houses, along with a few Imperial organizations, control the little arable land that exists. Raiders, bandits, and monsters are relegated to the more dry and inhospitable areas of the island: The Ashlands, Molag Amur. Even the bandit caves lie along the road away from good arable land. And the books that talk about Imperial involvement in the East speak of it as a drain upon their resources, driven more by the personal avarice of the powerful than the good of the Empire.

Look at Cyrodil in comparison. Settlement is sparse, and heavily interspersed with goblins, bandits, and marauders. The countryside is dominated by ruined forts, long since abandoned by the Empire but hosting healthy populations of outlaws. Goblins prey upon farmers no more than a day's ride (scaled up from the game model) from the walls of the great towns (Chorrel in particular), and mines are constantly infested by the little buggers. Actually clearing them out (Fighters guild quest, Cheydinhal) is the exception, not the rule. My guess is that the heavy taxes (including currency depreciation) necessary to keep the empire running are slowly destroying the communities that form its base. As people find it harder and harder to live in a law-abiding fashion, they drop out of civilization, gathering in the remote places to find strength in numbers against rapacious tax collectors.

And as this process goes on, "remote areas" become progressively more numerous and closer to the official centers of Imperial civilization. And not only do human outlaws gather in these places, so do goblins. With the strength of Cyrodil perpetually abroad, little can be done about it... and little could be done anyway due to the atrocious economic policy that leads to the problem in the first place.

This decay can also be seen in the nobility of Cyrodil. Bruma and Cheydinhal have a competant lady and lord, respectively, but Bruma's is due to the constant influx of hardy Nord stock, while Cheydinhal's ruler is a foreigner. The situation is much worse to the south: Bravil's lord is a drunken wastrel, while Leyawin's is a man who trusts nobody, and is not worthy of trust... particularly by the Khajit and Argonian populace that inhabits this area. Skingrad benefits from the fact that its lordship hasn't changed hands for at least several hundred years, while Anvil, despite its beloved ruler and position as a center of oceangoing trade to parts West, still suffers from a growing urban blight. And Chorrel is ruled by an old lady, who spends most of her time ruminating over her lost husband (and her lost painting), and, so far as I can see, has no heir other than her daughter, who is married to the Duke of Leyawin and is possibly even worse than her husband. We don't know what conditions were like in Kvatch before it fell. Hmm... I've never really explored Kvatch to try to figure out what it looked like before it fell to Oblivion.

With the tax base eroding, its only a matter of time until the Legion starts missing payroll on a regular basis. I'd say that all Oblivion would break loose when that happens... but it looks like it already has.

I think it's likely. Here's an earlier thread on this: http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=737581&hl=sengoku

The Empire has been going in and out of crisis ever sine the reign of Pelagius I, and every time, the Empire has managed to weather said crisis and come out of it with the power mostly intact. However, then, Cryodiil and the other Provinces had an Emperor to guide them. Since Mehrunes Dagon had his little hissy fit, there now is no heir to the Dragon Throne directly from the Septim line.

The devs seem to forget that there are descendants of Tiber Septim ruling Sharnhelm, but I will leave that little bit alone for another thread.

Anyway, the Empire, as it stands now, is destined to crumble. That doesn't mean that all hell is gonna break loose. I forsee something along the lines of a Confederacy between a number of states. Cyrodiil, Hammerfell, and Skyrim will likely remain close to each. Morrowind will be totally independant. Another war will errupt between Valenwood and Elsywere (shocker /sarcasm). Summerset Isle might make another grab to form the Dominion again. High Rock has two possibilites, go back to the chaos before the Warp, or become a more united country. And then Argonia will continue to be itself.

None shall survive.

HAHAHAHAH!!!

So thats why theres so many outlaws in Cyrodiil?




I think the new book coming out mentions something about a descendant.

But anyway yeah I geuss it makes sense for the Empire to crumble, but going off from lore in ES 5 I don't want to see a "fall of Rome" scenario where the Imperial City literally gets sacked and all of Tamriel gos into Dark Ages, I'd rather see the empire fall apart so that provinces like Cyrodiil, Hammerfell, and High Rock become groups of city states, that govern themselves and have their own armies ETC, rather than all hell break loose and everything becoming destroyed and everyone living in mud huts like the Dark ages.

I mean I'm somewhat concerned over this because alot of what I like about these fantasy games comes from the Dark Ages, but for the game to actually become that would svck.

That book is the thing to be worried about right now. It could very well butcher quite a bit of lore.

Floating, undead city of doom? Lol wut?

Its also about a teenage girl....

Ok Barenziah was a great book series (In the game) but REALLY a book about Elder Scrolls is about a TEENAGE GIRL? What a bunch of bull! Why not have it about a warrior like a knight or a barbarian! Not to sound stereotypical but come on Tamriel is NOT a fairy tale I know they're going to take the whole High Fantasy thing to far!

I've found nothing about that group except a short text that said who they are and what they want (but not how powerful they are) and a small passage in the Pocket Guide to the Empire that didn't reveal any relevant information either.

From which sources did you get your information? (I mean, it doesn't sound as if you just made that up, but I can't find anything on the Imperial Library.)

To Nero Severus - Actually, I think every good tale set in the TES world should have a thief as a main character. And with "thief", I mean thief in the way it's used in TES... Vivec, Cyrus, Barenziah, Decumus Scotti... they're all "thieves". Okay, Decumus Scotti is a thief in the way Guybrush Threepwood is a pirate, but still. These are the characters that make good TES stories - not noble knights.

Necromancer's Moon.

It's too soon to worry about the upcoming TES novel. After reading two books by Keyes, it sounds as if the upcoming novel's heroine will be similar to Ann Dare (in "The Briar King" and the other three novels in that series). Keyes does well with his characterization as far as I can tell, so at least the TES novel won't be done by a hack.

I'm not so sure that Skyrim, Cyrodiil, and Hammerfell will stick together. I don't see a total Dark Age approaching, but it's possible it will be like the Warring States period of Japanese history -- warlords and feuding kingdoms, the common people caught in the middle. Maybe Lhotun will go his own way with Hammerfell the way Helseth will probably focus on keeping Morrowind together, and the Nords will get more ambitious.

I never really thought about that, I mean maybe not "Thief" Thieves but more rogue type characters.

I don't think the Empire will dislove, I think it will continue to be the mightiest power on Lake Rumare for centuries to come :frog:

To put the query diffently: Will Cyrodiil remain the womb of Nirn? Will White-Gold Tower, whose stone is the Amulet of Kings/Enantiomorph, the combined blood of Akatosh and Shezarr, remain the ideal which gives birth to the Empires of static change? I believe it will remain so, for now, no matter the political landscape, thanks to Martin's apotheosis.

:talk:

In-game dialogue. The Renrijra Krin control the skooma trade, which is the economy of northern Elsweyr, and because of it are allied to many of the tribal chiefs. There is a town called Border Watch which is led by a tribal chief, although it is inside Cyrodiil. Also, the houses don't look as if they were peacefully occupied...

Also, when you speak to citizens of Leyawiin after you close the Oblivion gate outside of their city, they tell you that the count claims that Leyawiin is ignored completely by the leaders of other cities. He also needs to rely on mercenaries, essentially, to find bandits and his wife encourages you to continue to hunt them down. Their military is clearly not capable of doing anything on its own - not even a raid against skooma dealers, just outside the walls. The nearest city is led by an idiot, and his heir probably relies on the Renrijra Krin for his deliveries of skooma.

This is a minor point, but I thought the Khajiit at Border Watch were serving Cyrodiil -- watching the border with Elsweyr, but not on behalf of Elsweyr's Khajiits?

2 words, no emperor

One can hope. While I like the cultic mumbo-jumbo of TES just fine, it's always best if divine clashes are enhanced and mirrored by the human drama around them, in this case the politics of an Empire without and Emperor.

2 words, infernal city :cake:

Mundex Arena ring a bell? :prod: I mean that's kinda the point, and I agree that there's no emperor like no emperor.

Wasn't the Emperor just a figurehead with a magical amulet that kept the bad guys out? I mean I'm sure theres other people that can rule Tamriel, if thats not the case then I'm sure Provinces, Kingdoms, or even city states could rule themselves.

I'm not sure if he can be replaced. After all how can you top being the direct descendant of a guy who achieved apotheosis?

No, the Emperor was legit. And yes, of course the Provinces, Kingdoms etc could rule themselves...