Well if you want to go by the Tanker movie they leave in the morning and get to the Rig at night. I don't know how fast the tanker would be going.



More evidence to support my case.

Look, no offense, but you don't have much reason to state outright "gamesas's lore is wrong and FO2's is completely right" when I've repeatedly given factual evidence that an 87.5 mile effective range is literally preposterous on a military aircraft by the year 2077. I really don't see how you can say "Vertibirds don't have unlimited range just because Beth says so" and then turn around and say "Vertibirds have an 87.5 mile range because Black Isle said so". That's a bit hypocritical.
500 miles (which, by the way, is shorter because they're designed for carrier operations, while Vertibirds aren't) is still almost six times your proposed Vertibird range, and it's not a valid comparison in the first place as the Vertibird of FO2, FO3 and FONV is designed to operate from ground bases.

Again, please explain how the military would be able to establish and maintain Vertibird airbases within 50-80 miles of the front lines of a war. It doesn't make sense, and in two pages of posts I haven't yet seen one plausible explanation as to how a military aircraft could possibly have such pathetic reach.

Finally, fusion reactors give near-unlimited range because that's the way they work. Ships that have nuclear reactors don't need to refuel for years; a Vertibird would likewise have extreme range.

This.

So desperate to see the Enclave again, in great numbers they conveniently ingore facts, logic and canon. They can't deal with the idea of them being reduced to remnants. Also many have not played Fallout 2 and rely totally on wiki.

Yeah I think it's safer to assume the Oil Rig is at least 300-400 miles out from Navarro. That gives Vertibirds a more reasonable range.

They certainly aren't anything approaching the deus ex machina some imagine them to be.

I'm questioning Fallout 2's logic in regards to it.

Besides, prehaps the verties were not fully fueled up? Maybe they were rationed only a small amount to prevent pilots from losing valuable fuel if the Verti crashed or went beyond its designated zone. When the Rig fell they could have gassed the vertibirds up as much as they could in Navarro and flown as far as they could, which could possibly be the East Coast (absolue max range I would guess).



Below the range of a WWI Bi-plane though?

I suggested 500 miles as a possible distance they could travel. 500 miles is quite a bit off from 175 miles.

I don't want to start an argument I simply think that this subject is something that can be debated, in the interest of friendly conversation.




I am not desperate to see the Enclave again. Indeed I believe they are nearly gone. I just would like the issue with the vertibirds resolved as it could explain several things.

and I have played Fallout 2.

My god are you really questioning Fallout 2? :banghead: This is why there is such a damn split in the fans.

First off, I should establish that I have no stake in the Enclave coming back; I could care less. I just enjoy debating about Fallout lore.

Second; Bethesda/Obsidian lore is now canon. Like it or not, that's the truth.

Third; It's a bit irritating to be told I'm ignoring facts and logic when you've yet to come up with a plausible explanation for how a military aircraft could have an 87.5 mile range.
And if "Bethesdian say so" doesn't count, then "Black Isle said so" sure as hell doesn't count.

I have played 5 play throughs of FO2. The video was simply to show you what I was saying from ingame. Navarro was Explained in FO:NV

I have in-game proof that the Enclave are in Chicago. That and every other base match with that map. That map matches with the bible written by Chris Avellone. He amended it like 8 times but did not touch this. I don't see how this doesn't qualify as legit to you. Who can someone trust for information about the game then? You?

What the hell do you want? a letter from god and nothing less?

And it's rude to insult other people and make incorrect assumptions about them. But it seems your getting a little emotional so I won't take it too personally.

I am not saying Fallout 3 is not canon but where in Fallout 3 does it say how far a Vertibird flys? Fallout 2 tells us, Fallout 3 does not.

Fallout 3 says they have a fusion reactor, which gives them near-unlimited range, as I've stated. Current naval vessels operating inferior nuclear fission reactors can go 25 years without needing refueling. Even if we assume that factors somehow combine to greatly inhibit Vertibird range, it's still easily in the thousands of miles at the very least.

I don't see why not.

I am questioning the logic of the vertibirds apparent stated distance in the game. Similar to how some question Fallout 3's lack of plausible settlements.

The originals are not Holy Tomes that are infallible. I hold no game above the other (I think they are all great, I just have a personal preference) but "logic" is something that has been used as an argument against 3, and turn-about is fair play.

I think Fallout 2 is a wonderful game. I just think this is an interesting conversation that could provide some new information. I generally try to stay neutral in the "vs" threads.

My point was Fallout 2 does no explain what happened to Navarro. You said many times that "Fallout 2 also said Enclave were destroyed."

This debate is about Bases out side of North America. I am not questioning Chicago!

The map in Fallout 2 is not explained. There is no "why this represents bases outside America!" so your Proof is just speculation and one line..

I have given you proof from Fallout 2, Fallout 3 and New Vegas that backs up my statements.

Yea it was rude, sorry.

It's isn't 87.5 miles.....It's maximum range just isn't 175x2 = 350 miles XD Also IF you didn't know Vertibirds weren't in the war, Then Enclave siezed the prototypes then started Mass production POST WAR. Also where is it said that they have fusion reactors? Besides the wiki? Other then they blow up in the same muchroom cloud as the cars where is it stated? where's the specs? Also your using RL tech as examples again. You Car in FO2 didn't drive for unlimited range, neither did your energy weapons shot forever. So just be cause it's fusion doesn't me it lasts forever in the FO world.

All I'm doing so far is giving you what it says in FO2. I'm not using anything else.

Apology accepted, just try to remember we're all friends here.

I enjoy debating Fallout lore with others who are well-versed in it, as it's quite fun and I can stand to learn even more about the universe, but if we let debates get heated everybody loses.

@Andaius-While I recognize that real world specs are not directly applicable to the Fallout universe, the fact remains that the Fallout military tech baseline is greatly advanced compared to modern-day military technology. As such, one would expect Fallout aircraft to be more significantly more advanced and capable than their modern-day counterparts.

It would indeed be 350 miles, sorry for the miscalculation, I misremembered the definition for range. However, that's still nothing less than preposterous for an aircraft as advanced as the Vertibird is.
The fact that they weren't in the war itself really has no relevance; they were designed for full-scale warfare and if the Enclave had somehow modified the prototypes it certainly wouldn't be to reduce range, given that they would be flying across a post-apocalyptic wasteland that was severely lacking in available airbases.

Yeah Fallout 3 says they have a fusion reactor, which means the ones in Fallout 2 have as well but Fallout 2 tells us how far they can go.

Second Fuel for them as in Uranium was almost gone so I doubt the Enclave have tons of Uranium "fuel" around. Possible Vertibirds have to rely on both Fusion and liquid fuel. Vertibirds were not designed to fly long range.


Edit: To everyone here, I really am sorry I am coming off so rude and harsh. I'll try not to be in the future.

I agree. I don't want to be known as a "Fallout orginal hater" or accused of being one because thats not what I am. I just think its something that should be able to be discussed and not just shut down.

From what I've seen the stated 175 miles of a VTOL aircraft in Fallout 2 seems illogical and prehaps the range is more, I do not see the effectiveness of a military aircraft built to those specifications. Thats all I am saying.

I know that FO2 does not explain what happened at Navarro. But what I was trying to point out was that the Narrator describes the destruction of the Oil Rig as the ultimate end-all to the Enclave (seeing as he says "no one remembers President Richards name" -paraphrase). The only way I can see that as possible is if everyone dies.

By stating this I am trying to point out that Fallout 2's ending is not perfect and does have holes. Holes such as the Enclave dying on the oil rig when, according to the person who wrote the ending, these same people are stationed all around the world.

And I know, Bible does not beat In Game facts. But the majority that we know about Fallout is because of lore. We simply can't have in-game support for everything.

Concerning this issue, there is NO in-game information (not counting the map). Bible sources do gives us lead though. And these bible sources do have some credibility behind them due to New Vegas's "ED-E" recordings.




They have a nuclear bomb near the scientist that can release the FEV.

Cheers,
Mk II

No worries! It's hard to properly convey an argument via solely text without coming off in a different way than you intended.

If Vertibirds have fusion reactors, they won't need refuelling; the whole point of nuclear reactors in combat ships today is that they run for years on end without needing refuelling.

The issue is Fallout 2 makes it clear they can't travel long range. Maybe 175 miles is low balling it but being able to cross oceans is just exaggerating it. Saying maybe Fallout 2 was wrong or not very logical in that sense is just :banghead:

If Fallout 3 came out and said they have the ability to travel non-stop around the world! then you would have a case and alot more mad original fans.

How do you figure that? What if they run dry a mile off from the oil rig? Then your "example" is totally invalid. All we can say is that there Maximum one way range is less than 350 miles. Since it doesn't state the fullness of there fuel tanks anywhere.



Again your making assumptions. They only have more advanced tech in a very very narrow field. Namely cold fusion power, that forums the bases for energy weapons, and powered armor frames. they don't have microchips, or smart weapons as we see today. Just like in those retro-future movies, they may be sporting ray guns but there other technology is way behind. I don't assume anything based off of what we have today compared to what they are using. Yeah you think they would have advanced computers if you have ray guns but nope, they still run on vacuum tubes and take up the size of a large room most of the time. There Idea of a hand held PDA is the size of a telephone book.

I can logically explain this friend . Nuclear reactors on ships are cooled by the ocean. Water is taken in to keep it from over heating an blowing up. Vertibirds can't have tons of water to cool their reactors. They also need alot of maintenance hence having to return to the Rig/Navarro alot.

I agree that there is no chance of them crossing the ocean. I want to make that clear and I do not support the overseas base theory, heck I don't think there is much more than a base at Chicago left of the Enclave.

I just think that we shouldn't just think of the range as "only getting to Navarro". Thats a very very short range and any military aircraft designer worth his salt would avoid such an ineffective range of combat. A range of 500-1000 miles or so would help explain a few details. Like how the Enclave got to the east coast (prehaps they re-fueled in Chicago or something).

Just saying that its up for debate and I find that the Fallout 2 set range to be slighly illogical.

Where does it say this range though? 175 miles seems way too close to the American coastline given everything we're told about the Oil Rig. Unless this is a definitive statement by an NPC who would know I think we can safely regard it as incorrect.

Assume the Oil Rig is say ~500 miles from Navarro and everything starts to make sense. Vertibirds would have a range of up 900 or so miles before requiring refueling which is reasonable given their function. They're clearly extremely short ranged aircraft that seem to fit the role of helicopters more than a military aircraft. 900 miles, however, is still not gonna be enough to get you from one end of the USA to the other without at least two stops.

Makes sense; I'm perfectly willing to grant that Vertibirds don't have insanely long range, but I think equally we need to accept the fact that a maximum one-way range of 350 miles isn't very plausible for something running on fusion power. If a fusion reactor gave range that crappy they'd just switch back to a gas-powered engine.

@Andaius-A maximum one-way range of 350 miles is still pathetic. And I know the Fallout universe is less advanced than ours in many ways, but in terms of power sources for military applications they are undeniably ahead of the modern world; if you don't want to accept FO3 Vertibirds as an example of this, use FO2 Power Armor. And, by extension, if it's got a better power source, it's got more range.

Well I think most of us can agree that Vertibirds can't travel across oceans or America in one go. Which means Vertibirds would not be the way Enclave talk with one another (so called, these bases around the world). If they could why send ED-E when they could get get into a Veribird and fly to Navarro with the info?