By FOB are you talking about the Tanker FOB or Fallout Brotherhood of Steel? The game Brotherhood of Steel made to many mistakes set by the Canon of the first two games. Thats why its not canon. Bringing it up is also going off topic. Wiki is not the bible its just a collection of all things Fallout that fans put together and not all of it is considered Canon.

1) We have not seen any Enclave vehicles that can travel around the world, other then the tanker and they went to great pains to disable it. So how do they travel around the world?

2) How do they communicate?

3) Why did the Remnants not go to theses other bases?

4) Why would they forget about them just because the Rig is gone? Why does Navarro not know? Why does Raven Rock not know?

5) Why did the entire Enclave governmnet die on the Rig when they were supposed to be around the world?

6) If the Enclave have these bases then why did they wait till 2241 to make a move to take back the America? and don't say Radiation because the Radiation was mostly gone by 2161. So since 2077 they sat on their butts when they have bases around the world and wonder weapons coming out of their butts and seemingly endless man power.

7) Why no in-game mentions of world wide bases?

8) Why have we not seen these craft they can use to go around the globe?




I know people love the Enclave but do we really need to bring them back from the four corners of the earth just so we can Whake them again? One line of lore is all that hints at other bases and yet so much crap would have to be invented to make it canon and so much was already done to "explain" the Enclave in Fallout 3.

Bold

Cheers,
Mk II

What? When all communication with the main headquarters goes down people will know that [censored] has happened, and if you require evidence Kreger tells you that they know the Rig was taken down by "internal sabotage". They will have the infomation of where the other outposts are at Navarro, all supply Vertibirds went through Navarro, it was also the larget mainland base so in the end unless your suggesting that another Enclave base is larger than Navarro and has so many people that they won't die out your idea about other Enclave bases is moot; it's been 40 years since the Oil Rig, they won't be many people left and there won't be enough to continue any real population.

When never see any vertibirds flying, yet know they can. This does not rule out anything. Any discredit by this would be speculation as how they could travel.

They have a range of 175 miles, just enough to get to Navarro.

We don't know. How does the NCR? It would be pure speculation to say. No ingame data proving either side.

The NCR uses Radio, the Enclave use PoseidoNet.

Who says they did? Maybe Everyone knows Eden was a computer but thought he was the best shot. Again, Speculation with no In game cannon sources to go either way.

No, Eden was the next in line, he was the highest surviving Enclave with the legal right to become a tempory, but legitimate, leader, they went there because they were ordered.

Alot of Maybes and speculation there :=: Enclave - Mk II :=: .

We do know how far Vertiberds travel and its not far.

NCR communicates by Radio, and good old fashioned brahmin, caravans IE letters. They also have computers

Government would not make a computer president unless everyone was dead. Which is how Fallout 3 said Eden became president.

1 ) This refers to Styles post and might help clarify what I mean.... Exactly, but we don't need to see everything to know they can. My point is that This question is unanswerable because it's not mentioned. I could list a myrid of examples of such things but we don't doub them. Like who was president 3 terms before Richardson? You don't know? That means he didn't exist! (sarcasm). This logic cant be used.

2 ) OK, so thats how then. Maybe there are other ways, but only PosedioNet has been proven.

3 ) Again my response was supposed to be used in context with Styles question. I'm basically trying to say the questions he gave me can't be used to prove/disprove the multiple bases theory because there is simply not enough information about the Enclave to tell.




Yes. A lot of speculations. But What I gave you is not speculation. I can show you something that proves the Enclave "Multiple Base Theory". So, until there is something that discredits what I have given, it seems as though the Enclave still live on.

Cheers,
Mk II

To answer how they go around world. Dude, they went around globe pre-war. 7 months prior. Obviously this stuff existed PRE-WAR. Could they use it to get back? Prolly not. Hence why not all Enclave at the rig or Navarro.

They have money and clout. Odds are if they went around globe, which as I said could have been places like the poles, canada, mexico, south america, they in remote places, that prolly not direct hits from nuclear weapons, and if in more violent regions could have bought or just taken over covertly bunkers etc.

Old fogey grunts not gonna know location of every base.

Who knows how big small whatever any base is. Why they not make a move? I would imagine if in a remote location travel be difficult.

Communication does not matter. If they can communicate, great, if not, they go with whatever they can, assume everyone else dead, and primary goal is survival.

You break one chain along a line of communications and the entire thing can go to hell. Chinese would have targeted sats with nuclear weapons.

Offline means that link is destroyed. Maybe base got hit, maybe not. Won't know unless you go there.

There is alot of information: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHGRcdq0x9A&feature=related, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIh0jizPP6c oh and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khv6Pa7Ph00.

We have the Renmants of Fallout New Vegas that tell us that the Enclave are Dead in the West. We have Fallout 3 that said that Enclave were not in the East till after Fallout 2. Edit: We have alot of information from Fallout 2.

I give good reason why the bases theory makes no sense and yet I get "maybe this and maybe that." The Enclave are dead or very close to it. Fallout 3 is so full of plot holes. Having Enclave pop up yet again as a major force from across the seas you might as well just forget logic and call it Fallout 4 return of the Targets!.

Its Whake-A-Mole. We destroyed them so many times. They games make it more likely they are dead. Logic says its pretty likely.

FO2 states they are all dead. They show up in FO3

FO3 Says they remain a serious threat even after Raven Rock.

FO3BS You can choose not to blow them up. And seeing as there is no official ending for it... There cannot be a cannon end untill a expansion of FO3:BS, but that has not been made.


And the "good reasons" you give me are not good. They can only be answered with speculative thought that cannot be backed up by in-game or Bible proof. So all I can say is "maybe this... Maybe that". And you say "FO3 is full of plot holes" but you are so ready to use it as proof to why the Enclave is dead?

Cheers,
Mk II

What I can't understand is why targeting the Citadel in BS automatically makes the H-Bradley fire on AAFB as well........

They were Nuked in Fallout 2. New Vegas tells us many stayed and tried to make a new life but ended up being hunted by NCR and BoS, others went to Navarro. There were not that many Enclave in Fallout 2 which means their numbers in Fallout 3 make no sense because many died on the Rig, many others gave up only to be hunted, some stayed at Navarro, while the rest went to DC.

Fallout 2 makes it clear that the entire USA, government was on the rig yet you cling to the bible that says they went all over the planet. Fallout 3 says Enclave were not in the East till after Fallout 2 and Eden became president because government was dead.

Fallout 3 Encave get destroyed, twice and the BoS there said don't worry we will mob them up.

They have no means of going around the globe. Vertibirds can't go that far and we have seen no craft. The Virus would have killed any Enclave outside of the Rig. No means to get the inoculation to anyone else. They did not have it ready till they were destroyed.

There's really no logic to them having gone "around the world" before the war. The rest of the world was in shambles, Europe was torn apart and the U.S. had virtually no allies. Not a good political climate for building a shelter.

I still believe that the Enclave has a small base or two out there, but in America.

You don't put yourself in one place. Period. Ever. Ever. It is strategically STUPID.

So 7 months before war, most Enclave go to a rig in middle of ocean.. chinese have sats. Spies. If enclave did something that dumb, it gonna be noticed.

That makes for a convenient missile strike right there. "Stupid Americans put most their leaders and important figures on oil rig. Nuke it general cho lee".

They don't know what to expect. In perfect world, things be hunky dorey, no communication lost, blah blah blah.

But from military standpoint, you plan for the worst case scenario, always. Assume everyone else dead, do what you can to survive.

If virus is pre-war plan, they gonna know it possible that plan gets activated, sooo, you take precaution from it if you can't make it to rig.

The logic for going outside of America, is to hope you in a place that does not or is very limited to the amount of nuclear weapons that hit you or around you.

It increases odds of survival, that is why you do it, cuz you have no idea what the chinese know or plan to target. That is why. You don't go to one base. Cuz if chinese know YOU ARE DEAD.

That is the logic. Probability for survival increases the more you are spread out, just like vaults are spread all over.

Well they did and seeing as how the American's sabotaged a Chinese attemped to drill the same spot they know it's there anyway.



It was a post-war plan after the Enclave chcked on the mainland in the 2170's.

Thats my point. Eden would not have been president, some other human would have been president for Fallout 3. The entire government would not have been on the rig according to that quote from the bible. Still Fallout 2 says the Entire Government was on th Rig. Fallout 3 tells this as well because no one else was left to become president so Eden became the president.

I mean really now. You have been saying the same things over and over again. I have given you In-game proof that supports the Fallout bible, and you still deny it. What do you want? You haven't given me anything that disproves a thing I have said.



The government should be centralized. So action could be taken quickly if needed. Having the ground forces of the Enclave spread out while command would be centralized would be best. HQ commanding Armies work that way. Its like saying government shouldn't all be in one city ( a capital) in case of a attack. THEY ARE. Not the whole army, but the government is.



Yes there is. The Enclave's plan was to kill all "muties" and rebuild America in their vision. Being spread out across the world would allow for the whole planet to be colonized in the American way of life. Exactly what they wanted.

"Sits back in a chair, drinking a Sunset Sasparilla while watching this debate, while the Initiates Practice" Best debate i have seen in a while, good facts too, keep it up, cheers.

haha Im glad you like it

But like Styles and others have said, the FEV-Curling-13 virus requires an inocculation to survive (if you are a prime normal like the Enclave are, then you actually suffer a worse fate than muties.) This vaccine for Curling 13 was developed post-war on the rig, it would have been impossible to reach the foriegn outposts and give them the inocculation to prevent death. I also don't see the practicality in communication and coordination.

Other outposts still left in America? sure I'd say thats possible, certainly can't rule out the possiblity. Other bases in other countries? ehhhhh.....I don't really think so.

:=: Enclave - Mk II :=: if your goal is to make me sick of this debate so I will go away.

Anyways. I am not denying the fact that there are alot of Enclave in Fallout 3. Nothing about the Enclave in Fallout 3 makes sense but for a few things. We know Enclave were not in the East till after fallout 2. We know the entire government died on the rig because thats how Eden became president. We know they died twice in Fallout 3.

Their numbers are due to Bethesda messing up and adding alot of Targets, nothing more.

I say the samething over and over again because you don't have anything. All you have is "But Maybe!" You just want the Enclave to come back as a powerful force even though it makes no sense. Fallout 3 it made no sense. So for them to come back a third time as a powerful faction would just be stupid. Then we will have to destroy them for a fourth time, for they are the Enclave and they hate everyone.

OK. Lets say they did have communications. This is all speculation but it will show it is possible.

Enclave crack the code for the inoculation. They send the chemical formulas needed to reproduce it to all other bases. Upon receiving the inoculation, it is mass produced and given to every Enclave citizen. Done.

However, that raises a problem: Why couldn't the Enclave communicate with these other bases after the destruction of the Oil Rig. here is my reason: The oil Rig was the Command HQ for the Enclave (that would include where the President was, government, generals, etc.). It would also include the communication HQ. Upon destruction, it would leave the Enclave unable to communicate with one another. It would also hold vital positions for other bases, leaving the Navarro Remnants in the dark in where to go until they get a message from Eden.

Seem unlikely? It happened with vault 0. Fallout tactics. The central hub of all vaults.




I'm sorry if I'm making you sick of the debate, Im not trying to. :sadvaultboy:

But i'm not giving "what if" scenarios. According to ED-E, there is a stronghold in Chicago run by the Enclave. It matches up with the Emap i brought up in the start. Everywhere mentioned that has Enclave in the area are on that map. Thats canon, right (ED-E)?

Im getting frustrated because you deny this by asking questions that are literally unanswerable by me. Its a story, and from what we have been given, I have been able to point out that they are (or can legitimately be) still be around. You have been asking me very specific questions that probably won't ever be answered.

For The Enclave:

No doubt, they planning pre-war. I'm sure they had lots of plans. But you can plan all you want. Until those bombs starrt dropping, and where they drop, and the extent of the damage... plans are now moot. You can do your best, but exactly, in the end, it will be a free for all, with goal of survival. Cuz for every little thing you can think of, 10 more things will happen that you didn't plan for. That means, if there a Enclave base in say Antartica, and they have no word from anyone, they are going to do what they can to survive and hopefully one day, regain contact with other Enclave.

"holds his hand up" May I interject here. While i see Enclave Mk 2's points, and respect them, Styles does have a logical point as well. As a member of the Brotherhood, i too have had problems with the numbers of Enclave in FO3 as well. I personally want to try to mediate this to say why don't you both agree to disagree on this one, as your both shooting facts like Liberty Prime was lobbing Nukes like footballs( and i am not starting a Liberty prime debate, so let it drop).