What makes you think that they wont be in Fallout 4(if theres one).

Well, Outcasts "might" be in Fallout 4 (hopefully) but Lyons Brotherhood is no longer BOS in my book so they should undergo a cosmetic change in name and maybe outfit colour.
So if Lyons Brotherhood is in FO4 but Outcasts are not then I'd say that FO4 don't have any BOS in them and will ignore Lyons Brotherhood as white noise unless they under go a change in design.

Remnants, just remnants

I love the Enclave, but their just arent the superpower like the old days

It was created by President JFK on Feburary 12, 1962 (so the height of the cold war).



and I got it from the offical number of people in line for Presidential succession. Based on what I've heard from both you and The Enclave though, it would seem that the number of "successors" was significantly less by the time of Fallout 2 (ie. about 9).

Also in regards to the Raven Rock vs. Oil Rig Debate. My guess is that they amassed their forces on the Oil Rig and Raven Rock was meant as a "Fall back" position (which is exactly what it served as).

WHY. WHY. OH why is he gone noooooo. (crying) waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
But anyways to Gabriel: I did like the BOS outcasts they had some nice color on their armor that was cool

I always loved the black and red combo, also love yellow and white combo but it wouldn't be very suitable for the wastes.

Doesnt matter it looks Fashionable lol. I like strutting my stuff in the wastes rofl.

Seems odd to me. The Rig I am sure had alot of supplies as well. It had labs and they could build advanced pa. Their plan to use the Jet Stream to send Modded FEV around the world did not come about till around 2240-2241. So what was the Enclave doing for 164 years? I don't see their plan in FO2 being the reason for siding with the Rig over the Rock.

They could have set up at Raven Rock. Set up away to watch the Vaults. Used the FEV from Vault 87 and used the people of Vault 101. If they really needed to they could have sent people to Mariposa and Vault 13.

They could have gone anywhere in the USA they wanted, based on how FO3 makes travel look so easy. I doubt the Rig was the only place they could send FEV into the Jetsteam.

Very least they could have abandoned the Rig and went to the Rock at any point up till FO2. They had 164 years to do so. They are crazy about taking over DC in FO3. For people that are "the government" they sure did not care about DC for over 164 years. They could have used both bases.

They had contact with Eden seems they knew DC was in ok shape and the Rock was still there. Enclave being "the Government" would have known about optimus prime at the pentagon as well. So the Oil Rig is great but DC is the Capital. It has way more Vertibirds and other equipment. It has Optimus Prime and a Land Crawler Base as well as control of a Space Weapon and yet they ignored it for over 164 years till the rig blew up?

With the Rig and Raven Rock the Enclave could have taken back America a long time ago..

That's the point, why would they need to leave later?



They started the plans for FEV in 2230's when they first ventured back onto American soil to see the choas caused by roving gangs of ex-Unity Super-Mutants, along with the would-be warlords battling for the wastes. Fallout 3 provided no details on the travel between the two, personally I don't really see the need in splitting the nation in two, the Enclave relied on propaganda and such to keep up moral and prevent desertion.

They certainly were [censored] crazy I'll give you that, they wanted to use the Purifier to kill off all of the mutants so that they could begin rebuilding, that rebuilding could have taken place anyway though, the fact that it is the Capital means nothing to the Enclave in the short term. I'm still sure that the Oil Rig had satilite communication, they could easily have controlled Bradley-Hercules from the Rig.

Any how it's a moot point really, when the Enclave was first created there was no Raven Rock, no Optimus Prime and Bradley-Hercules, it's just another Fallout 3 induced mystery, personally I really don't see the need in having both, the only emerged for the first time in the 2230's and thought about solving [censored] from the Rig.

They had actually sent scouts way before 2230's. Just after the Master fell, I believe. But it took time for them to found and dig up that FEV sample. I think their plan A was to find a new planet to populate. Hence the social experiments going on in the vaults.

Even still the project starting in say 2230 thats still 153 years. Enclave could have taken back America long before 2230 with the Oil Rig in the West and Raven Rock in the East. In 30 years they had an unexplained population boom.

Point I made about them sending people to Raven Rock was because if Eden was talking to them then they know that Raven Rock and most of DC is still there. All their wonder weapons are there and huge stockpiles. Enclave could have in theory taken back America by working from West to East and East to West long before FO2. Long before they came up with the FEV plan of FO2.

I agree Enclave in FO3 are a mystery. I would go as far as to say it really messes with Lore. Enclave in FO3 were way to powerful with way to many wonder weapons. Optimus Prime could have been theirs if they had got their before the brotherhood. I don't see why they did not go to DC at least a group of them, the moment Eden made contact with the Rig.

ITS NOT OPTAMIS PRIME ITS [censored] LIBERTY PRIME!!!!!!!!!! so stop calling him a gay transformer! also Raven rock was built way before the oil rig witch would make it obsolete. and wouldn't the chinese rather nuke the capital than an oil rig. plus the oil rig had the last oil supply. and it would have been easy for the enclave to get from navvrow to D.C with the vertabirds (sorry for no paragraphs i use a ps3 to write with)

I use a PS3 to write with, it is quite easy to use and still have proper grammar. We call him Optimus Prime because he is "a gay transformer", Take It Back! was written by Micheal Bay.

I don't remember everything Eden said in FO3 but reading the Vault I came across this.

"President John Henry Eden from Fallout 3 refers to President dike Richardson as one of America's many leaders that he studied for inspiration, and Elder Owyn Lyons mentions President Richardson when talking about President John Henry Eden stating, "The Brotherhood encountered the Enclave once before, on the west coast. Back then there was a 'president' dike Richardson who led them."

Is it possible Eden had contact with the Rig but the Rig did not have contact with Eden?

Now steady I old sport, I wouldn't go that far... :tongue:

I think the statement, "Fallout 3 messes with lore" isn't really that far, infact it's more of a jumping off-point really, the start of any discussion, so normal and natural that we all just assume everyone knows that Fallout 3 makes no sense so we don't even bother saying it.

Optimus wasn't even ready before the war, all the resources of presumabely the pre-war Enclave couldn't put Prime back together again. How the BoS did it... OMFG THE STORMTROOPERS ENCLAVE BE STEALING OUR WATER!!! TAKE IT BACK!!! _{[censored] Bethesda...}

Hmmm, perhaps that is the case, and the Rig, not knowing this, assumed that Rock was nuked and destroyed, the Enclave Army under Eden may very well have always been there, but Eden, being a robit couldnt take control since he knew Richardson was alive, and so he wouldnt let the Raven Rock Enclave leave to do anything but sit in what i'd assume to be a lower part of Rock that would function like Vault 101, living as citizens and living until Richardson and his cabinent died and Eden took control, and perhaps by then he has sent an Eyebot or a message to Autumn Senior.

More likely Raven Rock was abandomed/reduced to a fall back spot because it was more likely to be nuked to hell. If there was a second army under Eden at the Rock why have they not taken over DC in the 164 plus years since the Great war? What were they doing in that time? Why did they not take control of DC and Optimus Prime? A second Enclave force under Eden makes no sense. Enclave would have sent someone long before to check even if there was no signal. If they knew the place was abandoned their is a higher chance they would just assume it was destroyed.

I was going under the idea Eden did not come "alive" till after the Rig went boom.. Eden talks about being the other presidents advisor. Other president we know of before him is Richardson.

Thats why I asked "is it possible Eden had contact with the Rig but the Rig did noy have contact with Eden?" Would support "President X" theory.

Eden was a robot, and therefore cant break rules of his AI, and since he wasnt president until Richardson died, he couldnt rightly take control.

If Eden had an army of humans under him, you would think they would ask "why is a robot our leader?" "Why for generations we have not left this Rock?" Why did the Enclave back West not send someone to check to see if the army was still there? They get no signal they would assume that the communicatons were down. I don't think they would write off another army in the East. We should have heared about them in FO2. Enclave on the Rig would be far more likey to give up on the Rock if they knew it was empty.

Why didnt the residents of Vault 101 say "Why the heck can't we leave?" simple answer: brainwashing, they thought they couldnt, so they didnt, and so they couldnt.

Then that would mea the Enclave in FO3 are trully brainless Tools. I don't by that they are. I am not an Enclave supporter but I don't hate them.

Why did the Enclave back West not send someone to check to see if the army was still there? They get no signal they would assume that the communicatons were down. I don't think they would write off another army in the East. We should have heared about them in FO2. Enclave on the Rig would be far more likey to give up on the Rock if they knew it was empty.

Yeah, i didnt really think that, i just wanted to try to rationalize how such a large army "appeared", perhaps... G-gaaaaarrryyyy...
Perhaps it wasnt a large army, perhaps it was just one squad, one squad that was kept in "stasis".

I wouldn't imagine that there could have been any Enclave soldiers before the soldiers from the Rig came (which doesn't make much sense to me as Raven Rock in real life is specifically designed to be the next pentagon should a nuclear war occur). However plans could have changed and the Enclave wanted to divert all their forces to the Rig so they could launch a massive attack when they were ready. Raven Rock was a "fall back" position that was designed to serve as both a COG facility and a "back-up" base in case plans went screwy (and boy did they).

Eden did command his personal "army" of robotic soldiers though (sentry bots, maintance bots, and turrets and such) and Raven Rock probably has some "robot manufacturing" capabilities as well. In fact Raven Rock must have a lot more space than what is shown (8 beds wtf?) as the real-life Raven Rock complex is designed to hold over 3000 people. We must have only been shown the "upper levels".

I still say all the Enclave soldiers in Fallout 3 are all clones of one squad of soldiers.

Thats interesting...hmmm. I need to think on that theory

Is there any examples of cloning in Fallout? If that was what happened then that would actually be kinda cool (kinda...Im not sure what to think about it actually :homestar: ) and would help explain the massive numbers of soldiers in Fallout 3...