Caesar is a villain?
I thought House and Kimball were the villains of New Vegas. :goodjob:

Fallout 3 is not Fal....

Bah nevermind, people stuck with that and now everything needs to be like Fallout 3, "srhudder"

By his methods, I think so, but I accept its open to interpretation.

However he does guard the flame of civilisation, no matter which side of the line he falls - of course, he might have a different view of that flame than the others.

what about john henry eden?

Its dead

I'd like to see allot of different stories for each Fallout game. Why not make one of the games in an area of the US where NO major faction has control. A group of towns people are pulling together to fight off slavers or fight off a new type of intelligent mutant. There are so many things they could do to make the story interesting the possibilities are endless!

Unfortunately yes. The good President of the United States is most likely gone (god rest his mechanical soul). Unless the LW didn't blow him up or he somehow managed to back himself up I don't see how he could still be around. Besides in Broken Steel the "Enclave High Command" has taken control.

But was it ever truly alive?

Then the dead horse will continue to get beaten :sadvaultboy:

Yes. Yes he was. In our minds....and in our hearts...

the enclave are not a major part of fallout ? are you kidding ? yeah whatever.

They were a major element in Fallout 2 but were going to be reduced to nothing but remnants in Van Buren before Fallout 3 came and [censored] it all up.
So no, they're not a major part of Fallout as a whole, they're a major part of Fallout 2.

The Enclave has seen alot of attention in released fallout games, and it's another faction's turn now. However, I LOVE the enclave and would hate it if we've seen the last of them. However, if they come back they must do it properly. With the ol' advanced power armor in all it's glory.

the problem is obvious, no new vegas enemies are really very ominous or fun to fight like the enclave were, the enclave were bad ass, everything about em, their power armor, they way they would show up, getting dropped off by verti bird, they patrolled the map area had good firepower and sentry bots, so if you just say, "oh we need new enemies for the sake of new enemies" that doesn't make the game better, taking away the enclave takes away the most mysterous and ominous faction of the franchise, plain and simple, ceasers legion is a joke and so is the ncr, neither of them have the mystique of the enclave, if there was a faction similar to the enclave that would be cool, but there's not, ceasers legion run around with spears and macheties and they aren't very ominous or mysterious and they aren't high tech either, they're the lamest enemy in fallout there is besides bloatflys. so replacing the enclave with what amounts to be cavemen with spears DOESN'T work for me. sorry, and most people already notice a huge lack of good human enemies to fight and thats because obsidian took out the best faction in the franchise, so you can filabuster all you want, but the bottom line is combat in new vegas isn't that great.

Van Buren was never officially a game, so it doesn't really count. How could Bethesda screw it up when it wasn't really there?

Going by that, the Enclave were major factors in two of the three main Fallouts(since most people here have not called New Vegas Fallout 4).

ETA: I do agree that the sun has set on the Enclave as a major player, and it is time for some new blood to come along to terroize (or "save") the land.

My god man, hit the enter button a couple of times would ya? Not reading the next post if it's a clustered text.
Anyway, we go by lore mkay, we go by canonized events.
And Enclave?
They first died off in Oil Rig but somehow magically managed to produce even greater number and equipment than they had in FO2 and then died off again in FO3 and Broken Steel.
The Enclave can't just "appear" again.
It doesn't make sense.
If you feel that the new factions svck and only like fighting space marines with ultra secret evil master mind plans then so be it.
But Enclave died out... Thrice... How are they suppose to come back?
And Remnants?
We saw them in New Vegas.
They were old people who tried to hide away what presence of Enclave there was in the west coast.
Once Remnants are gone then there is no more Enclave.

It's about being realistic and following lore and logic.
And so what if one of the most mysterious factions was killed off?
They can always think up a new one.
In fact, by ridding Fallout of Enclave leaves a window open for a new faction to emerge in their place.
A new faction of mystery.
Maybe a new faction of high-tech.
Maybe a new faction of bad-assery.

If you didn't like the factions in New Vegas then there isn't much to do about it.
But the problem with the combat in New Vegas is not the absence of Enclave, it's that the game is too focused on fixed spawn locations.
The game becomes predictable after the first playthrough, and then it becomes dull.
Most enemies also use crap weapons and that's because of the absence of player level scaling. (Oblivion and FO3 were not better with it but still.)
So Enclave being gone isn't what makes combat svck in Vegas.
It's a bunch of other things.


There weren't a lot of Enclave in FO2 and most of them stayed on the Oil Rig which blew up by an atomic bomb.
So gee, I dunno, the only explanation I can find that Enclave could have emerged as strong as they did in FO3 is if they screwed each other's brains out and basically did what Legion did with the girls and turned them into baby mommas.
And the equipment?
Vertibirds?
Crawler?
Where the hell did all of this even come from?
If they always had this hidden away then why didn't they just go to Raven Rock directly instead of staying on an old Oil Rig?
I'm not as good as others are on Enclave lore but even if we dismiss Van Buren we can't dismiss the facts in FO2 and the plot hole between then and FO3.

And there are five main Fallouts actually. (I do consider Tactics and New Vegas fully canonical games, it does not need to have a number on the end to be a main game.)

Yeah, by that logic, Fallout Tactics is 3, then 3 is 4 and New Vegas is 5 ... o.O

New Vegas is cannon like it or not

Is staying absolutely 100% true to lore so important? To me this game is for entertainment. Why beat the lore to death?

<...slowly backs away from can>

Yup. Continuity is everything.

Its supposed to be workable into one long saga/story - Imagine if you're watching an action movie and then all of a sudden for no apparent reason the lead man has become a woman. No explanation, the other characters on screen don't even seem to notice, you'd think it was pretty silly.

Yeah, something so blantantly obvious is one thing, but nit-picking it to death is another.

I liked the Enclave in Fallout 3. I liked their presence anyway. My main problem with their involvement to the storyline was that they were treated just as baddies to kill and not much else. They should have been expanded more and the freaking robot should have been destroyed when it took its first steps.

in other words. By all accounts, the Enclave should have won. It was bad writing that made them lose. Nothing more, nothing less.



I agree.

I stick with the Lore, I love Enclave, but they are remnants, for now, they cant appear again like the Mighty Empire all over again just for the sake of fanservice,

Of Course, at least that you want The Burned Game happen again bliviongate:

no and I wouldn't want them to. At best they should appear similar to the mojave brotherhood in New Vegas with maybe a couple vertibirds still left.

I have no problem with the Enclave being a power in FO3. It's neither illogical nor non-canonical. It's a matter of perspective, I think. You can think of it like this - would a major power put all its eggs in one basket? Real world reference, would the US put all its military power in Norfolk, but nowhere else?

There's a lot left unsaid in FO1 to FO-NV. You just have to assume that there is a world ticking beyond the mere confines of the current game.

So, Midwest BoS is probably doing stuff as we speak, and we don't know what. That stuff is not bound to what's going on in FO3 or FO-NV. I bet that they have lots of centres of power, not just Chicago. If Chicago was nuked, I bet they could scrounge together enough of a force from the other centres.

I think that is true for the Enclave as well. They got licked on the West Coast, but a remnant of the former US government would have eyed the east coast eagerly and would have built a presence there. If you want to revive the US in the fallout universe, it would be natural to want to revive the symbols of it, and the most important symbols of it were on the east coast.

I also bet that there is Enclave in the midwest. Maybe much reduced, but I bet they have a power centre there. If I was the leader of the enclave, I certainly would establish centres in areas that were strategically important and with opponents that I would have to deal with sooner or later.

It is illiogical and non-canical for the Enclave to be in the East with such numbers based on what we know of them from FO2, FO3 and New Vegas. Enclave were not the United States Government. They were a group within it. FO2 we learn that before the great war the Enclave members went to the Rig. The Rig is where they had most of their people. Navarro only had a few Vertibirds. Oil Rig was destroyed and killed most of the members.

FO3 tells us that the Enclave did not even know about Raven Rock till Eden came "alive" chances are by a signal sent by the Rig blowing up. If the Enclave had a base with thousands of Vertibirds and other weapons as well as a space weapon and land crawler why would they want to go to the Oil Rig? Why would that base be full of crap armour they have in FO3 and not T-51b armour?

New Vegas tells us that there was Enclave that stayed behind at Navarro but it fell to NCR. Many Enclave gave up and tried to blend into NCR but ended up being hunted down by NCR and the BoS.

So given that the bulk of Enclave died at the Rig, many more gave up only to be hunted down or died at Navarro. That just leaves the Enclave that went East which there could not possible be that many of them. Some how with in 30 or so years they end up with countless Vertibirds and troops, space weapon and land crawler base. Again if they had all that stashed away pre-war why did they not know about it? Why did they not use it in FO2? Why did they go to the Rig when they had all that in FO3?

I am not bashing the Enclave but their Role in FO3 was way over done and again their plan made no sense at all. It was the same plan in FO2 but only watered down, literally and came down to "I hope the Lone Wanderer helps us."

Enclave as remnants would be great. Trying to make another life somewhere. Remnants in the West would be Old people. Remnants in the East would be Remnants of Remnants seeing as they were all young people. Children of the ones that came East most likely.

Its possible Enclave did have some very small outposts before the war but its more likely that Enclave when moving west set up the outpost in Chicago.

To see the Enclave as a power again I hope its them controling another power like the MWBoS with a new plan of controlling mutations insted of killing off everthing not Enclave.