Yes I do remember that. But he says that in context of alerting internal security to the Chosen One's location. I think he was confused as to how a stranger was able to access PoseidoNet via a terminal that was not on the Oil Rig (seeing as there are only a few (4?) terminals that can still access the network at the time), not as to how a Enclave force would be on the mainland. There is evidence of Enclave bases in the west other than the Oil Rig, such as the Remnants Bunker in NV, which was originally a refueling station for Vertibirds. Also, remember that after the Oil Rig was destroyed, even though Eden ordered Autumn to move the contingent east, some decided to stay (I'm a bit foggy on where I got this, but I'm sure it's canon). It's possible that some Enclave forces relocated elsewhere and reactivated some military bases (most likely in the North if they did, since the NW was closest to Alaska, excluding Canada). With any luck, the Northern Passage might be used for an upcoming Enclave DLC (unlikely as it may be).

On a side note, if they do ever bring back the Enclave, Dornan needs to be in it, one way or another.

Enclave forces that did not go to DC stayed at Navarro. They fought NCR and NCR won. Others tried to start a new life in NCR only to be hunted by NCR and the BoS. The Remnant Enclave in New Vegas tell us this. If there were other bases they would have gone to them.

The one in New Vegas could just be a pre-war Vertibird fueling station the Enclave remnants came across. Fallout 2 does not show any evidence of other bases other then Navarro. Fallout 3 tells us there was no Enclave in the East till after Fallout 2.

Why can't you let it rest. There's a ton of evidence that proves that Enclave are nothing more than a remnant anymore against few vague clues about some Chicago base over there. Even Bethesda's Broken Steel's description states "In Broken Steel, you’ll continue your current Fallout 3 character past the events of Project Purity, and work with the Brotherhood of Steel to eradicate the Enclave threat once and for all.". Case closed!

Personally, I disagree. The Enclave could wipe out ALL major factions under the right leadership. The BoS is a renegade outfit that has an 'Elder" leadership, plain and simple. The NCR are plainly corrupt forwards and backwards, thats why I NEVER side with them. I am a firm Enclave believer and I like Mr. House as well. People who actually get things done. The Enclave was simply mislead, they didn't need a computer to lead them, they needed a REAL president. With that being said, the FEV has some implications that needed to be changed. Instead of killing Non-Pure humans, just target mutated creatures instead, because I guarantee you that the DNA of a mutated human does not match the DNA of a Super Mutant or Ghoul.

Why target mutated creatures only? What is the Enclave going to use for sustainance when thier numbers increase, people really need to lose the idea that it is 100% eugenics behind the Enclave's plans; it is not. The fact that typical mainlanders are minutely inferior is not the only issue, it is also the issue of the Enclave being limited in it's ability to project it's authority and that it's authority will be largely unacceoted by the mainland population. They want to repopulate American and rebuild the American government, simply killing everyone and begining with the population they already have under their thumb makes logical sense to them and me.

Eden is a poor leader though, [censored] that guy.

EDIT: When I say "and me" I mean entirely from the Enclave's perspective, I in no way support genocide, something of a capitalist/individualust myself.

the irony of it is that that plan would drastically reduce the gene pool, essentially making future generations of enclave imbred

the enclave were morons.. ok. maybe thats too harsh.. they definately werent the brightest, though.

Funny, the generations that they survived on the Oil Rig, with similar populations to a vault, seem to indicate otherwise, maybe they have large stocks of sperm for artificial insemination like at Vault City. Population control makes sense for thier limitied society.

As the self-proclaimed defender of President Eden around here, I must take issue with this statement. :stare:

What is it about Eden that you feel doesn't qualify him for the title of "real President"?

i mean when they ultimately tried to repopulate the americas.
of course theyd keep it limited on an oil rig that had finite supplies.

the irony isnt that they wouldnt survive (i'm sure they could) its that they run the risk of mutating their genes through imbreeding

The guy was legitimate but come on, his did risk the entire Enclave on what seemed a lackluster plan at best, brught down by the cowardice of Autumn mind-you; Eden was a Richardson based pychopath, who exposed the Enclave to extreme danger to achieve control over a minute area in comparison as to what they could have been working towards (global/continental slate cleaning), in my opinion because he venerated Richardson to extreme levels, he has probably spent the same time in office as him too, though without being elected democratically.

It would just take a long time and a lot of planning, growth would be minutely slow; that being the only major drawback of the Enclave's plan. The first initial recolonisation would be risky and require massive amounts of organisation; they may even have to simply spend a decade or two sitting on their asses just to get some more people injected into the civilisation.

it would take thousands of years for diversity to come back into the genepool if they actually carried out the jet strweam master plan, though i should think.

you don't se the irony in that?

Yup, a long time it would take, given that I believed that the Enclave's population was around 1'000 citizens in 2242; though the Enclave can only think in the long-term, people like Richardson and the original masterminds of the Project knew full well that they wouldn't live to see America rebuilt and knew that maybe even by the time the generation below them died that still little would have changed. The Enclave citizen don't demand change however, very little changed on the Oil Rig for the whole 150 years of it's existance; I get the impression that the people would be docile and simply slog on as things slowly picked up.

EDIT: It is still a practical solution however, how long will it take for people's like the NCR to unite and such? At least the small number of people will live in a safe and clean world.

I know this has been argued before (I seem to recall me and Okie really getting into this one ) but I do not lay the blame for the defeat of the Enclave on Eden. I lay it it more on the machinations of Autumn's in his misguided attempt to be more "humane".

Eden's plan would have ended in success for the Enclave (at least back east, not yet on a global) scale. Autumn's plan led too....well.........



I still stick by my guns in this case in regards to my argument that Eden was not the one who ordered the purifier to be held at all costs. I still view Eden's relatively simple plan (get an agent to poison the water thereby "purfiying" the CW and surrounding areas of threats) as a clever act of sabotage in order to prevent something like the West Coast senario from happening again (a lone local ruining everything). The Enclave was established in the CW before the Brotherhood came, I sort of see the purifier plot as a way for the Enclave to destory a significat threat to their plans (the newly arrived Brotherhood) from forming a second "Chosen One" senario, and with a (theoretical) minimal loss to Enclave personel.



I'll take that as a well-recieved olive branch.

Besides, we might not want to be divided on this when we have bigger fish to fry.


(no offence cannibal, friendly discussion and all)



Not really? Explain please.

the jet-stream-master-plan's function was to decimate all of the non purebred mainlanders.
but by isolating themselves (through killing off essentially everyone else in the world via the jet-steam-master-plan) they set themselves up for polluting their own gene pool through imbreeding.

I had actually prepared an attack on Eden when I came to the realisation that it must have been Autumn's interfering that led to the need to physically control the purifier, otherwise they could surely have just administered the virus (IT WAS A VIRUS BETHESDA!) from the shoreline at night or something; but given this the fact that Eden backed down to Autumn and directly risked the human element, i.e.,the Enclave itself, on a plan he intended to usurp anyway is surely the signs of his machine nature coming through. He had one goal, the erradication of the mutant hordes, his method of executed, an infected water supply; the fact that many people (whom the Project was being done to help) may be in danger is irrelevant. Let Autumn do what he wants and simply stab him in the back anyway, making the risk of all of the men for nothing. Eden is a n objective machine who wanted to purify D.C. to the point that he was willing to dupe Autumn and all of the men into a false war, which Eden had no interpetation of agreeing with, just to make things easier at home, and get Autumn out of the way, whilst he continued the Project, even if all those it was designed to build a future for had been killed.

In the end I blame them both, Eden and Autumn. Eden for being a dictatorial machine and Autumn for being a traitor.

But what evidence do we have that Eden was the one to directly risk the lives of Enclave soldiers? Not really anything (as I see it). In my mind, virtually everyone who died at the purifier is on Autumn's head. Eden really couldn't stop Autumn's plans with at least a significant portion of the human element backing Autumn up. Eden let Autumn go ahead because 1. he probably felt confident that even if Autumn had the gall to try and defend the purifier, that Enclave forces would prevail (nobody was expecting Optimus) and 2. he felt it wouldn't matter in the long run anway, if he was able to sabotage the purifier, Autumn would lose by default.



Thats really what he was doing with his plan concerning "Take it back" (have the LW distribute the virus). He basically said "screw you Autumn" and decided to give the go ahead for Operation "Infect the Hell out of the Water". He mowed down (in the Raven Rock escape) any soldiers still (apparently) loyal to Autumn.



Do you mean all of the Enclave? The loss of men at the Purifier and in the mow-down at Raven Rock, wasn't really all of the Enclave forces. The vast majority seems to have been under Eden's command and still safe and snug at Raven Rock.

Just to kinda re-enforce some of my points, here's a quick run down of what I see Eden's plan as being.

1. Sabotage water purfier to cause purification of the CW and surrounding areas and wipe out newly arrived Brotherhood and pre-existing local threat to future Enclave missions in the area and prevent a "chosen one" senario from the Rig happening again.

2.Order a saboteur to accomplish this plan, preferably a double agent, who can get into the purifier without attracting attention (I don't see Eden as the one who ordered the intial occupation of the Purifier) and who can be turned to Enclave goals. Later this plan was tweaked a bit to include the LW as Eden was unsure of who in the Enclave the he could now trust (seeing as his "confidant" had apparently betrayed him).

3. Further development of Enclave forces in the CW and surrounding area (in peace) with eventual goal of finding a way to release world-wide virus from their current location.

4. Profit

Not really, they have assess codes for all the vaults. They open them up when the time is right, and begin integration of the populations. That is what I think the control vaults where ultimately for.

I d have to play fo3 again to remember every worf spoken by eden. If my memory serves it was the Autum that was more agressive than eden wanted to be. Eden was a good Enclave leader only reason they lost is because of the player. They slapped bos on a regular bases. They slapped the outcasts all the time, and they destroyed prime. My even a super self aware AI can predict u. Enclave would have rapped it up if not for the player. Sure men died no pain no gain. In war men die!!!! Point is they would have won if not for your super man video game guy. Also the Enclave that retreated to remote locations around the world in 2077. They are no remnents. They haven t even entered the frey. When they come calling it s going to be a whole new ball game. fo5 they ll be back... hard. It will take all of the wastes put together to beat them. Well and you. You are like 1000 men once leveled high. All IMO

There are no Enclave around the world. No evidence to support it. Wiki even changed it. Some went around the world, to get out of dodge before the great war. Enclave in America has had no contact with them in over 200 years. Its safe to say that they don't care about America for they are long gone and have not heard a thing from them.



This! Even Broken Steel mentions taking care of them "once and for all." The Brothehood even talk about mopping up what is left.

Enclave is gone. Should not come back. They are dead! Nothing but Remnants now. Move on. Lets have something NEW.

I think Bethesda s going to give u something new in 4. Something way way better than CL. I don t think bos will even be in it either. About the remote location Enclave how can wiki change the fallout time line????? Even if it says they got out of dodge of what ever it says now. Lost contact doesnt mean dead. You or none of the old guard can change my mind. Fo5 they ll be back and everyone will fully understand what they ve been doing for over 200 years. You won t like it, but it will be believable. Unless you can get me a global hawk or working spy satellite then I ll believe you. I don t think theres just bases but mini nations. The people that were already there are pure. Remote means no one cared so why waste the nukes. I think global comm. broke down, fev in the jet stream??? do u have any idea how much it would take to wipe out the world??? Its a silly notion. Get me that global hawk and let me check and if im satisfied that they r not there then lm with u. As usual this is all IMO

Yeah what ever you say :facepalm: I am just following canon and logic. The plan in Fallout 2 would have killed everything everywhere it canon. Wiki changed your signature "Enclave retreats to remote sections around the world" to this: "Come 2077, with total nuclear war rapidly arriving at America's doorstep, the President of the United States and a number of other members of the conspiracy left their posts to take refuge on the Poseidon oil rig. Here, the President himself set up a secret base from which the USA could continue to exist and wage war on China, with the eventual goal of retaking the continental United States. Some members of the Enclave retreated to remote locations in other parts of the world, but when the bombs hit, they lost all contact with the main group"


We know from from the games that the Enclave leadership was at the Rig. Anyone dedicated enough to the Enclave went there. Some that left most likely were just low level people. There is no contact with them. No mention of them. No way to talk with them. I would be stupid to find out there are large powerful Enclave bases around the world. If they are so Pro-American why the hell did they take off? Why no contact with the main Enclave? They are the Enclave, all powerful right? How is it they lost contact? They lost contact because they were unimportaint people not commited to the Enclave.

I am not going to change your mind fine. Its clear I can't because you are anti-canon. "Anything is Possible" crap...

If that happens, I will never play a Fallout game again.

And your notion is a silly notion.

The point is that any contact with the outside world puts the Enclave at risk, detection puts them at risk; what was the point in all of Eden's eyebots and radio, it just attracted undue attention. I'll give you that Eden might have expected the Enclave forces to prevail at the purifier, but to send them out there at all, especialy when he would undermine the whole reason for them being there, was just too risky in my opinion. It's not just about sending them into direct combat, just to send them out at all was an unnecesassry risk seeing as how he could have just replaced Autumn... oh wait he couldn't, stupid, "nobody knows he's a computer [censored]. :swear: _{I [censored] hate this game.}



The need to use the Lone Wanderer is massively suspect, the only reason I can think of for it is that nobody in Raven Rock was loyal to Eden (which is just ridiculous but whatever); I realise that it's a low blow defending my point with Bethesda's crap way of somehow getting the PC on the whole plot but it is canon (and I have to justify why nobody saw the Oil Tanker dock at the Rig so now it's your turn to defend poor descisions )



See above reasoning.

In short, to expose the Enclave at all, especially over the [censored] radio, was a risk; especially seeing as how I believe it to be Eden trying to LARP Richardson and just a real President in general.

you mean like thay did with that vault at the beginning of F2?

hah... are you sure the enclave (being the very best humanity has to offer ) would want to breed with such common blood?

I mean, for the sake of "this could happen" sure, it could.
but i feel the enclave. due to their ideologies would be much like the BoS after a while- isolating themselves right into non-existance.