So who knows at this point how many men I ve killed and onlr took like 200hp of damage. I go in Ceaser s tent with mini gun ap rounds and boone theirs like 7 men with displacer gloves and Ceaser. They kill me quickly I try it twice more they kill me fast. 3rd time I run back out the door so the loose melee advantage. I back up and spray mini gun ap boone shooted them in back. I run out of 5mm ap spool no time to reload. The few still alive including Ceaser are chasing me. I pull riot shotgun with slugs kill them. Shot Ceaser in head his face peeled off his skull skull rolled across ground Ceaser s camp and Ceaser done.

Now I did die three times in their main leaders tent, but all the other men in his whole camp I killed with Boone with All Amrican. I killed all the men outside his tent and lost about 200 hp. That was from 6 guys I just walked through a door right into. Boone lived. Now does it sound like I think they r hard???? This on hard/ hardcoe.

So I died in his tent 3 times. Lost only 200hp to all the scrubs out side. Do u consider that story hard. I should have died 50 times before I even got to his tent. I played nintendo and atari when they were out. Dieing 3 times to take out a main leader of a "powerful nation" In a camp full of his wanna be romans is not hard to me its sad.

Now the Legit my 1st play through he killed me and Veronica 13-15 times. I had no idea, now that guy and the guard guys r hard on the first play through if you don t have the right stuff. I liked that I had a light mg used all ap ammo on bridge. I though he would be like sm master when I saw him. I thought coin shot was good. I was wrong. I won t allow myself to take drugs after an enemy kills me either. So every time I walked up that little hill shot him with coin shot and then used normal 5.56 mg and got killed. I won t use stims or drugs during combat unless I can get to cover I couldn t get to cover for alot of those deaths. count. .....

Even when I do get to cover I judge how much time I would have if pip boy didn t stop time, so this way I don t shot 20 stims and take every drug I have. There simply wouldn t be enough time for that. So The Legit was pretty sporty 1st play through.

2nd time I had mini gun saved 742ap rounds just for him. I was sniping the guys out of the little bunkers and he came down. I put Veronica on melee wity Pushy I pulled the mini gun spun half a spool into him he turned green said somethinb about it not being fair and cowered in a corner. I proceeded to mow down those guard guys. Legit get balls again throws a nade from his corner I mow him down grab his bumper sword (that does poison dam) and put on his mask and cut down every one else there. I have like 42 in melee with t45d pa 8str. I killed the rest of those scrubs at thier own game.Veronica lived hard?????? more like sorry. Also I have never died from them in the wastes. I have never lost a follower to them in the wastes. ever

These stories r how I have formed my opinions on CL. Not from the writers stories, not because of old fallouts, not because of fo3, not because of Enclave, but from facing them in fake video game combat. Like I ve said they fall miserably short when it comes time for the metal to meet the meat.

I m really afraid that if we don t voice our opinions and demand a main enemy that can kill us we will have enemies like this in the next fo, and IMO the series will suffer greatly. That is why I won t drop it. No one will agree either. So someone reading these posts for Bethesda right now is thinking.....ok we need a main enemy that the player has to seek out, and we ll make them sound hard because everyone loves the story. They don t want to face a hard enemy they just want a story about one. Then we ll have another cake walk enemy. That is why I hate cl.

No, everyone hated america. It had the last bit of oil and refused to share. The UN dissolved as a result.

Not only that, they invaded another democratic country - the UK isn't going to support the US after it annexed one of her majesty's dominions.

:=: Enclave - Mk II :=: I went through all this before with you and I finished going through it all with Rook.

Where am I getting this America hated the World and World hated America? Simple the intro to Fallout: "The US would annex Canada and the European Commonwealth would dissolve into quarrelling bickering nation states bent on controlling the last remaining resources on Earth." The Fallout bible where America closed its borders cause of "New Plague" "The United States closes its borders and the first-ever national quarantine is declared." The United Nations collapsed. The World was fighting for the last resources on Earth.

Raven Rock makes sense as a back up. Why did it have all thoses vertibirds and weapons? Why did it have a ZAXS computer that became Eden? The base was clearly meant to be a back up. The Enclave at Navarro may not have known about it till Eden started calling. It would explain why at least two thirds of the Enclave at Navarro stayed behind.

The one line about the Enclave going around the world was changed in the Fallout wiki. It now says:

"Come 2077, with total nuclear war rapidly arriving at America's doorstep, the President of the United States and a number of other members of the conspiracy left their posts to take refuge on the Poseidon oil rig. Here, the President himself set up a secret base from which the USA could continue to exist and wage war on China, with the eventual goal of retaking the continental United States. Some members of the Enclave retreated to remote locations in other parts of the world, but when the bombs hit, they lost all contact with the main group."

To me this means that those that took off were low level people that did not give a crap about the Enclave. Why have bases around the world if you have no means of talking or meeting up with them? Those people would not have seen America in over 200 years. They would not even be able to talk with these so called other bases. Would they each have their own president and presidential cabinet? Seems stupid and confusing to me.

Since the Enclave had no contact with these world bases no information about how to make an inoculation was ever sent. The Enclave still needed the FEV virus not just the chemicals. Thats why they opened up Mariposa.

Thats assuming the annexation of Canada wasn't supported by other counties. If you think about it, Everyone had enough to deal with already. Europe had its own enemies in the middle east, Africa is unknown, And Asia (china) is mostly against the US.

The UN dissolved as a result of the nuclear exchange between the Middle east and European Commonwealth, no?

The EU fell apart because of the resouces wars and the United Nations also fell apart. America pretty much told the United Nations to shove off.

"As natural resource pressures grew and the United Nations' impotence to maintain a stable international order became clear, many member nations withdrew from the organization, prepared to use military force to defend what was theirs or seize what was somebody else's. The United Nations General Assembly finally disbanded the organization on July 27, 2052 after the majority of its member-states had withdrawn from it."

"Transcript of Broadcast June 24, 2074

Negotiations between the US and other world powers has come to a dramatic end, with the president walking out of oil talks with the other world powers. After a much heated debate, the President stormed out of the meeting and declared that the last known supply of petroleum will be used exclusively by the US and the US will not sell or trade any oil to outside parties."

Enclave in America had no contact at all with those that took off to bases unknown before the great war.

Does not matter if they could use bioengineering to make it. They still could not send it to these other bases. They had no contact with one another for over 200 years. If they could just use bioengineering to make it why did they open up mariposa? For the chemicals? If they can pull FEV out of their ass I am sure they could for the chemicals.

The History of the Enclave section was changed by the lead wiki guy. That section is locked so not just anyone can change it. Stands to reason if that part was changed the part in the Fallout timeline should have changed. Wait it has "2077 March: Prepared for a nuclear or biological attack from China, the President and the Enclave retreat to the Poseidon oil rig and make contingency plans for continuing the war."

So I guess it means I win :thumbsup:

The World hated America and America hated the world. Thats why when the time came everyone nuked everyone because they were all bent on controlling the last resources for themselves!

No good sir the wiki can't just be changed by anyone. I tried. the sections are locked. The person that runs the wiki/vault was the one that made the changes. Give up, you lost.

They had no communication with those that took off.

I guess you don't read well. I have already told you twice now the quote I used is still up there. Look harder.

I can't seem to find the quote you are referring to by the way...

Where are you getting it from?

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline under March 2077 "March: Prepared for a nuclear or biological attack from China, the President and the Enclave retreat to the Poseidon oil rig and make contingency plans for continuing the war." I don't see any thing under 2077 about the Enclave taking off to places around the globe.

Click on my sig and scroll down.

The Bible would not be changed but the people that run the wiki will change what they feel is a contradiction. The people that run the vault consider the bible canon unless it has a contradiction to the games. They feel that your signature is a contradiction hence its why they changed the Fallout timeline and Enclave history. Both used to be just like your signature word for word but they changed it. They changed it because they agree with me and what I have been saying all along. That that line from the bible, your signature is a contradiction to the games. They agreed and changed the Enclave history and timeline but not the bible because that is where thr original information came from.

Lulz, My quote comes from the writers of fallout, yours comes from a blogger. I think I win if thats the case. Contradicts? lol maybe your in denial. It would explain them as such a strong force in FO3.

My god you are hard headed. The Bible is canon to the people that run wiki. They know the devs of Fallout and Fallout 2. They changed it because the games contradict the bible in that case. The games are more canon then the bible. The games trump the bible. Three fallout games point to there being no Enclave around the world. Fallout 3 makes it clear that the Enclave came from Navarro. There is no mention of them coming from around the world.

Three games worth of evidence that point to there being no Enclave around the world. The people that run the wiki that know the Devs of the originals, agree with me. If you want to keep believing in it fine. You have zero proof but for one line that has been proven wrong by the games themselves.

You defend the wiki to the death but when its changed you say they are biased. You ignore the games and the canon. You base everything on one non-canon line from what 8 years ago back when Vaun Buren was being made?

Wow. Zero proof. You are in denial. You are picking and choosing quotes from the wiki (not bible) and then say the game rules all. The ingame cannon shows there are Enclave in Chicago at LEAST (but likely more places than that). There are quotes from the Writers saying they are still around the globe (bible). There are references (not pure cannon) in all 3 games pointing to them having bases around the world (map, Elder Lyons quotes, and ED-E), and you still say no proof.

My hats off to you sir. I could have never believed anyone so ignorant.

I defend the bible, not the wiki. I am using The bible, just so your clear. You are using the Wiki. The bible doesn't change unless Chris changes it. The wiki quotes that you are using do however.

And yet I am the hard head?

Good day

If you read my posts I agree there are Enclave in Chicago. I have said it may times. I debating Enclave around the world. I am debating your signature! There are no references in any Fallout games about there being bases around the world not a single one.

Fallout 2 there is that map in the room with a oval table but nothing that says "hey this is where are other bases are."

Fallout 3 says there was no Enclave in the East till after Fallout 2. The Enclave came from Navarro.

New Vegas talks about how Navarro fell to NCR. How some tried to start new lives in NCR only to be hunted by BoS and NCR. Others went to DC. ED-E talks about Chicago. I am not disagreeing with Chicago.

Both Fallout 2 and New Vegas make it clear that the Rig and Navarro were the only bases and that the entire Enclave leadership died on the rig. Even Fallout 3 backs that up.

There is Zero in games proof, not a scrap of evidence. Hell there was only that one line in the fallout bible which is wrong and it has been proven wrong.

All you have is wild theories backed by nothing. You ignore logic and canon.

" could have never believed anyone so ignorant." I feel the same about you. I would say lets agree to disagree on this but you have nothing, zero zilch nada.

We can agree then, at least, that we both think the other is ignorant of proof.

I have given you my proof from in game and bible. You have given me outdated fallout 2 endings (saying there is no more Enclave) and wiki edited articles.

I guess we can also agree the Enclave are in chicago.

Fallout 2 is not outdated. See you are ignoring Fallout 2. Fallout two in the game itself tells us there is only Navarro and the Rig. The Endings never say what happened to Navarro. The Ending does not even say that the Enclave were destroyed completely for Navarro was not explained. It just says "The destruction of the Enclave erased all trace of president Richardson history, now the title of president is used simply as a boogedyman to frighten children." Navarro was not explained till New Vegas. Van Buren was going to explain it.

I have played the games countless times. Not one mention of bases outside of America. If you can stand to repeat yourself one more time, please show me concreat proof of ingame evidence that shows bases outside America. Something that is not just speculation. Something that says "there is a base here."

Yeah, because if there's one thing that other countries like org other countries invading each other and hoarding resources.

Just because they did not/could not act does not imply consent!!!!

Use some common sense eh?


right first time - no, it did not. I like it when people answer their own questions correctly!

I agree with styles, there is no evidence of other populated enclave facilities during the FO 2 period. If the wiki says that the enclave / us gvt retreated to secret installations it does not preclude them moving after the immediate threat passes to the oil rig. I think it's likely that raven rock was the official COG facility (as it more or less is in the real world) and used as a transit point / immediate shelter for those enclave conspiracy aligned personel who were too important or prominent to move to the rig beforehand.

wow that s awesome stuff guys. When this thread ends im going to start another one. This thread should never end until there is truth beyond even the slightest doubt.

The games vs wiki vs bible is a good argument alone.

What happens in games (well except like nv endings) happened. All is not always said though. Everyone has good info, the real problem is there is conflicting info out there. The man that wrote the bible is the only one that can change it. Wiki is an info holder not an info maker Styles says wiki people know the people that wrote the bible so thats why it got changed in wiki. Why then would he not change his bible. The guy is still active in th fo seen. So one in the nv dlc board said they talked to him on twiter about some new dlc questions. I need to get his twitter. It is really hard to decide who is right between you two from the outside looking in.

Both have real info but it is conflicting. I don t like that. Somehow this has to get put to bed for real.