You know what will be badass? if in fallout 4 your part of the Enclave that will be awesome, but in DC how do you know if that was just the main force or just a Outpost? also we dont know that much about the East than we do the West, also I've read (this is about ghouls though & Van Buren) there was a doctor named Sebastian that made a born-ghoul maybe they can use that as a bases for born-mutants? then again its not canon....but if you want to look it up heres some links...

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Dr._Sebastian

It was not an outpost, it was were the President was; Adams Airforce Base was an outpost, Raven Rock was the center of all operations and the final resting place of all those Enclave forces which survived on the West Coast. On the West Coast it was the Oil Rig as the actual capital with Navarro as an outpost, the existance of other outposts is disputed. We definately know of an outpost/s in Chicago, that is all currently.

Born-Mutants?

I though this was a NO ENCLAVE HATE thread. So stuff hating. Its getting annoying. Respect the OP.

Post an counter-argument then if you feel so strongly about it(because I am not really seeing any hate in Styles' post).

Much better than backseat moderating.

There is no Enclave hate, just annoyance at F3 and rightly so. Have you ever read anyone's plotholes concerning the F3 Enclave; like how, for the US Army, they were absolutely flattened so easily, that they just stood in the middle of the road and let Prime kill them, that the Enclave artilery at the begining of Take it Back could have been used to actually attack the Citadel instead of being aimed at the bridge (which the Enclave actually have men on) for when you walk across it, like how the Vertibirds (which have rockets and mini-nukes) actually fly in from behind Prime and instead of attacking it at very obvious weakpoints instead just hover in the air in front of it, again, just letting themselves be killed.

You won't be banished from the F3 lovers club just because you admit it has some faults, i.e., the plotholes and just down-right silly things like above. It's still a good game.

I am not hating. Stop over re-acting to criticism. Also the OP did not say "you can't post any counter to this!" Because this is a forum and if he did, well the mods would not like that. OP posted "proof." I posted a counter to it.

If you had read the posts, I talked with the OP and explained it. If you also, look at my posts I agree their is an outpost in Chicago. I am just saying they should not come back as a major power. Its annoying to see people that want every future Fallout to be Brotherhood vs Enclave. Its funny how myself and other "dinosaurs" are often insulted "you're just stuck in the past." Really? we are the ones stuck in the past? Seems like some new people are. All they want is Enclave vs BoS in every damn game!

This.

I love Fallout 3.

But amoung other things, the battle against Prime is something I find at fault with Fallout 3. It would have been better if it had gone like this: Prime is destroyed almost immediatly by a few vertibirds (would have given that "OH [censored] its the Enclave!"factor"), With Prime gone the Brotherhood decide to switch to a plan B and throw everything they got at the Enclave forces, while taking heavy losses, in a bid to create a diversion. Then the LW sneaks behind Enclave lines and enters the purifier (somehow, the layout of the defenses would have to be changed or something) then the game ending continues as normal, with the expection that a point is made to say that many Brotherhoood forces were lost "valiantly" fighting against the Enclave. Would have been a bit better than the Enclave 'splosion fest that we have now.

And of course it would mean that the US Army wasn't entirely destroyed by one man too, might make it a damn sight more plausable; I would have changer the whole thing about going into Raven Rock and the whole "civil war", whatever people call it.

Exactly, as it was only through a costly diversion that the Brotherhood was able to pull off a victory with that version of the ending.



Yeah that too. I don't mind the whole "held prisoner at Raven Rock" part but the "Raven Rock Incident" (for lack of a better term) would have to go. I think the best option to fix that little hiccup would be to make a actual option to join the Enclave and give them their own story-arc (and to make it even more plausible, make it so that the LW was actually born in the Vault, not outside so it makes sense if he joins them.)

Indeed, the Enclave can test for such things very quickly; but to do that James would have to have been a Vault Dweller too, and his wife. There would have to be major story revisions for the LW to have been human.

And its kinda sad that what could have been the only chance to actually help the Enclave in a game was wasted, since I highly doubt they'll make another game involving a guy emerging from an unopened vault.

It would have been a simple change, make it so that the LW, and his family originated from the vault. Then a option to join the Enclave could have been created, with a moral choice presented: As a pure human, who do you side with? The others like you or the muties?

I don't think being born in a vault is enough for the enclave. You're still an outsider.

Not necessarily, that is a change I believe for the better. I see little reason why they should not try and recruit from Vaults, they pressumabley both have very similar systems of operating, i.e., standardised education pressumabley copied from pre-war establishments, the human factor , the repatriated citizens will be ascustomed to bunker life and lives of rationing and possible shortness of supplies.

In some ways yes. What the difference is though, is that they actually consider you to be an American citizen, a pure human. In fallout 3 for instance, they offered Vault 101 the chance to join the Enclave.

That might explain why they have so many numbers, they stopped by like ten Vaults and boom they have more than enough soldiers to explain their increfible numbers in F3.

Vault 101 was not opened for its people, so I doubt they did that for others. All the Vaults would have opened long ago. Vault 101 would have been the only one left closed.

Theri might have been some that were told they were members of the Enclave and should stand by for the main force to arrive so they can take back America, etc., etc...

So as part of the Vault experiment they set up vaults and told them they were Enclave. told them to sit tight for 200 years while we get around to opening up the vault? :confused: Well Sir, I don't like it.

It's not probable but it's possible, I don't know how I feel about it.

But they don't. I call Vault 13 as evidence.

agent_c is right. The Enclave opened Vault 13, killed a bunch of people and took the rest back to the Oil Rig and tested their modded FEV virus on them. They are also the people behind the vault experiments which right their should show how highly they care about "American citizens."

Yes, They do consider them citizens. It's just that they felt that the sacrifice of a few was better for the whole.

Besides the Pre-war government didn't exactly show absolute love to its citizens anyway (see Vault Experiment).

Also I always though the whole "experiment on citizens" thing was an evolved version of some of the real life experiments the U.S. government during the 1950s conducted.

Here's an example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKULTRA

My view of the Enclave was that they wanted to just start over. Enclave in Fallout 2 did not seem to me all the gung-ho about America. I still don't see them as the American government and I never will. I see them as people that usurped America. The most extreme elements of the military, government and private sector that twisted things to meet their goals. They did not care about helping America. They wanted to help themselves. The people in the Vaults were nothing but lab rats for the Enclave. All but for 17 vaults that is.

I get the logic in that, since they were the puppet masters that makes them "the government."

Well that and it begs the question, if the Enclave were not the government, who was? The President of the United States was "in on it", which leads credence to the belief that at least the upper echelons of the Executive Branch were a part of it too. I also think that there is some evidence to show that parts of the Judicial and legislative branches were a part of "the Enclave" as well.

What I see as one of the best examples of the Enclave's authority as the "American government"? The fact that there is no evidence that any other government survived the war. If the Enclave was merely a dark-shadowy group of a few rich guys in black cloaks who said "ALRIGHT NOW BOYS!" when the great war happened, its not as if the rest of the United States government would just dissappear. The U.S. has contingency plans for surviving a nuclear war, it's also designed to prevent (or at least deter) usurpation ( ex. separation of powers, line of succesion ). If most if not all of the Untied States governemnt (at least the top officials) were not with "The Enclave", then there should be another government still around somewhere.

I have no doubt that the some very importaint people of the pre-war us Government were in the Enclave. Still we don't know who the pre-war president was. Or how long the Enclave were running the government from behind the scenes. If Mr.House could figure out when the end is coming within 24 hours of the Great war happening maybe the Enclave did as well. The Enclave may have only succeeded in getting their puppet as president a few years before the great war.

Anyways, my point is I don't feel they give a crap about America. They are deranged powerful people that used people as guinea pigs and usurped America. People so fanatical in their believes and goals that they have become as bad as or worse then the people they see as their enemies. The Enclave are what America would be like if Joe Mccarthy was president, with a touch of genocidal madness.

To me they arn't the real government. America died on October 23, 2077.