Ah good ol' Joey M......

"Do you, sir, like the color red?"

"well...kinda"

"COMMUNIST!"



I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree then. :foodndrink:

The Enclave being so huge in Fallout 3 is a big plot hole no matter how you look at it, and Styles already explained why. The Enclave becoming a major power again is about as silly a notion as... well, as suggesting that in a few short decades they would manage to travel to the East Coast and manage to balloon into the force we saw in Fallout 3. As has already been stated, if they ever hope to become a major power again they will need to drastically alter the way they operate to the point where they'd essentially be the Enclave in name only.



Out of curiosity, what do you mean by 17 Vaults? Was it stated somewhere that there were only 17 Vaults that weren't experiments?

From the Vault http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Vault#cite_note-3 under True purpose. "Of the 122 Vaults, only 17 were control, meaning that only 17 were made to public expectations, all others were designed to include a social experiment, sometimes with a select few of the inhabitants observing the occupants."



:foodndrink:

Let me settle this real fast lol I ve already done this once but i ll do it again. Fallout Time line says that " 2077 ENCLAVE RETREATS TO REMOTE SECTIONS OF THE WORLD." Fallout bible says "in 2077 U.S. govent. officials left posts and went to A NUMBER of secrect locations around the world. AMONG THEM was the Poseidon oil rig." So there is solid proof that not all Enclave were on the fo2 oil rig. Its become clear that there is a game worth of Enclave in Chicago. Wiki say that "Enclave Sigma squads were posted to unknown highly secretive locations OUTSIDE of the Capital Wasteland around locations deemed by Enclave high command as imperative to the savation of the cause." I saw 1 sigma squad at Adams afb. Now Fallout Bible and Fallout time line were written and updated several times around 2002. Long before Bethesda ever got rights to the Fallout name so can t blame Bethesda. Now to me remote sections of the world mean less populated. Places like the Congo, Antartctica.

There would have been no point in making joining the enclave as an option because, you join put the canister in the purifier and you die, the end. Nice being a member of the enclave for the time it took you to get to the purifier and insert the canister.

Also the Enclave really is about the whole secret American government and conspiracy theories and the mc carthy era, and it wasnt confined to the 1950, and yes the US government tested on their own population, not that was isolated to the US many government tested on their population during the 1950's, but its just part of the whole 1950,s feel, the thing is alot of the conspiracy theories about things the government did have been exposed over the years and found to be true, and the enclave is a collection of all these things, as much as anyone wants to see them as a continuation of government, they were a collection of military, government and corporate America, who tried to justify their existence by saying they were official government and in their own minds they were.

They had the people the man power and the military might to prove they were the government, but the government died in the war, im in complete agreement with Styles, no matter how long you stare through those rose coloured glasses, the enclave are the enclave, i think the name in itself explains who they are, they arent called the united states government or the continuation of the united states government they are an isolated group who claim governance, without what the US seem to fanatically worship the documents of government, the bill of rights and the constitution. The brotherhood of steel could have slapped on a presidential seal, and said were the government as so's my wife because we can govern as well through force of arms, the ncr have just as much claim, we have troops and guns and thats our claim.

Everything died on the day the nukes fell, not only did all the states disappear but countries did as well, no more borders, no more governments, whatever illusion of the past the enclave had was taken from them by other people who didnt care who they thought they were, and what they wanted to enforce on a post war world.

Now sure the ones of the rig died and most of the ones in DC died problem is these pesky Enclave that went "remote sections of the world" What have they been doing for the last 210 years????????My guess is making babies and since the went to "remote sections of the world" Those places may have little to no radiation so Enclave may even consider those people "pure". I love saying this --- and since there is no CNN or global hawk drones flying around Styles or me or you or any of the other "old gaurd" have no idea what Enclave has become. Just think i only did a little fiction wrtiting in college while studying to become a journalist. Imagine what a real pro fiction writer could do with the info ive layed out.

I forgot this little tidbid of info Fallout Bible states that " MANY powerful corps that helped the Enclave were protected" as well. So old guard will tell you that it was Enclave was a handfull of people and they all went to the oil rig when in all fictional reality it s just not the case. Old guard is like a race horse with the blinders on so they can only see straight in front of them. They believe only what they saw and were told in fo2. No way a slimy politician would lie to their video game guy. They thing some grunt soilder knows everything. Now in real life they probaby don t believe politicians. They probably don t truely believe word of mouth,but when comes to this fo they can not be reasoned with. What is said is gospel to them. What ever Richardson and the grunt troopers said may as well have been the almighty himself saying it. Luckily for the rest of us, fictional writers will take the openings that were left for them by other fiction writers and Enclave will probably make a return.

Hey trixyblue Since you just came from the vault Enclave would still consider u "pure" , because u didnt get exposed to enough rads over a long enough period of time to be a mutant in thier eyes. See every time the send there soilders out they get rads too . We ve all worn their pa and rads get in so i guess its ok to take some rads to the Enclave. Eden may have been telling the truth you may have been a serious commander in The Enclave. I certainly wouldn t take his offer, but you wouldn t have died had u put the fev in the purifier. I think most other people would have though.

Now Styles during my research a ramma I found that the U.S. Governent as a whole were behind the vault experiment deal. U.S. created FEV and fallout bible says its unclear if Enclave even knew about fev untill well after the fact. U.S. military wanted super soilders thats why they made fev. Fallout time line goes through the whole experiments process. You think Bethesda went off canon by putting fev in dc but what their fictional writers did is go on canon and made it one of the vault experiments as well. Since the U.S. govnt made it pre war it only makes sence to continue the experiment in a place where the bombs can t mess it up.

why only do fev testing at a place that may have had a giant bulls eye on it????? The u.s. government is stupid ill give you that, but come they re not that stupid. In that vault no one could run no one could help. Really no one important that wasnt in on it even knew what was happening there.

Come man in nv people were sacrificeing themselves to the vault every year im sure you know. I counted 19 overseer skeletons down there. That doent even count the ones that were turned to ash. Those people listened and you think they wouldn t listen to the U.S. govnt. Now I wouldn t listen to some Enclave,but if they called and knew the codes and said they where good ol Uncle Sam u know they d listen. Hey u you know they yhink theres like 120 vaults but its unclear because records were lost during the war? Well maybe the records wernt really lost, maybe the Enclave took them and has like 15 vaults and they ve been pumping babies out for 210 years, and those vaults r all filled with Telsa Shock Troopers just shooting plasma rifles.

Lol, "Old Guard", is that our name now, well I'm 17 so am I an "Old Guard"? You're the one quoting an ancient line from a semi-canon source written in 2002, who's the "Old Guard" now?



The Bible was written by Chris Avelone around the early 2000's, he didn't have the authroity to say that the Enclave was dead so he just said, "Yeah, they went all over the world," despite the fact that spreading themselves out so thinnly, all the risks of communications equipment failing, the fact that the Enclave's plan in Fallout 2 would distribute a virus around the entire world would have infected and killed any of the other Enclave the second that they left their bunkers. There were no Enclave in D.C. before Fallout 2, that has been confirmed that Autumn and his father were at Navarro, so the Enclave from Raven Rock securing things around them is irrelevant to the discussion of whether they have bunkers all over the world; Adams Airforce Base was abandoned, the Enclave sent some men there to take it.



Of course the Enclave would consider them "pure", exactly what have they been doing? Nothing, because they aren't there, unless each one is a seperate entity, completely out of contact with eachother ,again see the reasons why that would be a stupid idea, the Enclave originally planned just to govern the mainland but created the virus/posion after they saw how deadly it was, how could any effort to recolonise and govern the US be done if the Enclave are completely out of communications or in the artic?



Who has ever said that the Enclave was only a group of people, it's rather evident based on the population of the Oil Rig alone that they weren't, I think everyone in this topic has agreed that the Oil Rig had at least 1'000 people. But just how big are the Enclave, how many major corporations, news channels, army commanders, agents, government plants and politicians could there possiblely be to have many, completely self-sustaining bases around the entire world; the whole of the government and army leadership would have to be Enclave and then they wouldn't be a shadow government. As for Richardson's telling the trooper, you can make up excuses to discredit everything, the people in the Enclave were constantly being bombarded with propaganda, particularly those on the Oil Rig who have been content to live extremely dull and had lives for over a centuary just so that their decendants can eventually take back the world. The people on the Oil Rig are drones, blinded by loyalty and patriotism. They typically will believe what the politicians say because wtf else can they do, the Enclave won't tell them of the past blunders of politicians or corruption, they won't even be able to compare their lives with those of the people on the mainland because they have never seen them.



The Lone Wanderer was born to wasteland parents, it's not radiation that mutates you but it is also the radiation which mutated the first people after the War, and all of the genetic impurities which the Enclave seeks to remove are passed on through the generations. PA not providing max rad resistanceis a little off, the founders of the Brotherhood of Steel went outside a few days immediately after the war and it was the power armour which meant they didn't injest any radioactive particles, fallout is irradiated dust which you breath in, not the electromagnetic wave radiation. And why is Eden's word so sanctomonious? Richardson at least had an entire Oil Rig of soldiers to protect him, Eden has just watched you effectively become a walking tank and kill everyone, of course he is going to lie; you think that whoever wasn't killed by the Lone Wanderer would just sit down and take it if the President then made him commader of all the Army, you can't just make a civilian a Colonel, escpecially not one who has killed all of your people.



We all knew that they created the Vault Experiment, again if the bible says that I despute it, how can an Enclave as vast as you are suggesting not have anyone know about FEV, especially when FEV was leaked to the public sometime before the war; the Enclave would have had people in West-Tek (which created power armour, it was a massive company) and would have themselves probably been behind the US Army take-over of the project. Vault Experiments are social experiments, like being made to sacrifice people or being obsessed with guns, not actual experiments on people; the purpose behind the Vault Experiments was to give them data to build a perfect, stable society on the mainland I believe.



It didn't have a bullseye because it didn't get hit, infact the place were it was got a direct hit but the base was obviously so top secret that the Chinese never learned of it's location.

In short, your fannatical reverence to a semi-canonical quote is almost like you critising people who take the previous Fallouts so serious. You also slap it on your sig and location like you un-covered some lost relic, the quote has been brought up many times and has been desputed with the same discussion many times; I would think that fiction writers had a little more creativity to keep bringing back the same old factions.

Well Mr. Enclave you made some good points there. I really don t care if they ever come back. Here s want I do know besides what I already posted. I ve played 2 Fallout games 1 I have 5 characters and around 2400 hrs of game play the other I have 2 characters and about 400hrs of gameplay. The later of the two I m on messege board talking about fallout instead of playing because it is soooo boaring and easy compared to the other even with hardcoe. Enclave was strong Ceaser s Legion is weak. Ceaser s Legion was all puffed up by the writers but Id have let them hurt me. Now Enclave killed me sometimes hurt me alot and good men and women that served with me were cut down by Enclave. Butch was KIA before I got him back to megaton from Rivit City The Enclave set up by the drunk guy s place with the controled death claw killed him. I even pulled the alien blaster to try to save him. I was taking Plasma rounds trying to save him from their death claw but no. Enclave killed Butch less than 20 mins

Another character they got Butch at Adams afb. The killed bos Cross there once as well with another character. They got her and me one time somewhere out in the wastes with a controled death claw and steady plasma rounds. I m going to shart cry pretty soon here. One time Charon and I were headed up to that little town with the guy that ran the traders name slips my mind. The 2 Enclave check points with all The Hellfire troopers. They killed him I can still smell the burning flesh. I dont know if I can go on with this CLOVER omg clover she was so brave. I can t go on. fo nv i went to the bridge game over

Yeah, the Enclave seemed much harder in Fallout 3 simply because the best solution Bethesda had for balancing out the broken levelling system (with Broken Steel) was to turn enemies into bullet sponges.

I can t even even tell you if l got shot in nv. I owe this to Clover we were some where around Germantown we heard shooting in the distance. I decided we should see who it was. It was 3 Telsa Troopers fighting two sm brutes. I shot the Enclave wity Lincoln s repeater while useing a rock as cover,but not Clover just as the telsa troopers finished of the sm they turned and opened fire on her. She didn t budge. I wanted to tell her to get to cover I needed to shoot these guys a few time each, but i couldn t tell her. Before I could kill the last one Clover was lost to multiple plasma rounds. Now with Ceasers Legion I don t have these stories etched in my mind. No one dies in random encounters vs CL they r scrubs. I got bos down at the dam they part they were in Legions best men didn t even make it through the door. Bos gave em the slapper. Enclave didn t let bos do that to them. bos had to get a giant robot and still only me and Sarah Lyons who cannot be killed made it to the purifier.

Enclave wiped out Lyons Pride and some random bos people while a giant robot was destroying them. Ceaser s Leagion would have ran and hid. Last time i did that did Legion guy at the end I made him go in the corner and hide 742 ap mini gun rounds, but I didnt even shoot a full spool into him. He turned green said it wasnt fair and hide. Eclave stands and fights in the face of certain death to wipe Lyons Pride out. and the big moster of thr east hides in a corner. See why I want Enclave??? I need soilders out the to fight against. Not some scrub with a dog on his head, but soilders. You give me some soilders to fight instead of the ms teen usa pagent Ceasers Legion and i wouldn t even be on this board now.

Lol. It's kinda' funny seeing all this Pro-Enclave stuff when they were essentially Neo-Nazi's bent on wiping out everyone "impure", or at least their idea of it. Anyway, according to the quest in NV where you interrogate a centurion, everyone in the Legion from Caesar on down will commit suicide in the face of capture (with the exception of said centurion).

Hell, even if there's a small chance they may be captured. You couple that with the fact that they can square off against an organized, modernized military force using ancient tactics I'm not sure how the two factions can even compare. One has access to the very peak of technology, decked out in power armor and what have you and still fails miserably, while the other is essentially stuck in the year 49BC philosophically and seemingly can't be defeated. Even the NCR ending has the Legion sticking around after all is said and done.

Yeah, of course they were Nazi's right. I also love how people always put pure in quotation marks in a mocking manner, "Pure of course like Aryanism right, :laugh: of course the Enclave are Nazis, they want to kill everyone because they are OCD on genetics. The fact that they will then rebuild a democratic America on the mainland and that all human beings born from then on will be born into a safe, clean world were there is neither violence, disease, crime, corruption and only constant progress is irrelevant, they call people un-pure, therefore, Nazis."

Seriously people, if it was any other word than pure, like the Super Mutants call pure humans "Prime Normals", if the Enclave had called them that instead of pure then nobody would make any kind of Nazi similarities; because non exist. The Enclave are democratic for one, two they aren't trying to out for power, they want to rebuild their government and the pre-war world but cannot because the people on the mainland (aside from Vault Dwellers) are genetically different; proved by Enclave experiments with their FEV virus in Fallout 2 where humans (from Vault 13) suffered much differently from the disease than the freshly changed decendants of Vault 13 Dwellers (the tribals of Arroyo), just because they look no different doesn't make the Enclave hypocrits or whatever people smuggly think that they are suggesting whenever they put "pure" in quotation marks; incase you didn't notice almost every species since the War has experienced massive mutations, the human populace are no different.

There is also the fact that the people of the wasteland would niether respect the authority of the Enclave as a government, that the wasteland is actually beyond their control, so small that they are in comparison, in addition to the fact that the mainlanders all have subtle genetic flaws. So yeah, the Nazi arguement is silly because it's based off "pure" and also implies that the Enclave is some all encompassing evil set on global domination, which they are not; not in the Nazi dictatorial sense. They want to rebuild America, but decided that the mainland situation was uncontrolable, so they decided to wipe the slate clean on the mainland and start again; that is the real question when concerning the Enclave, once everything else has been boiled away, do you agree that a mass genocide is worth getting the Enclave's ability to properly and quickly rebuild the American government and society.

I think that their could be Vaults with Enclave propaganda which are meant to help the Enclave replenish it's numbers.

This.



Its possible, but more than likely if there were, those resources would have been tapped into years ago (if the vaults survived), and certainly would have been "called up" by the end of Fallout 2/beginning of 3.

Welp, I can't really see how outright murdering anyone with a slight mutation could ever be right in any context. I guess it goes back to the "ends justify the means" type of mentality that's so prevalent in these moral debates. "Nazi" is probably too strong of a word as they aren't trying to conquer the world, but it really can't be denied that they're highly genocidal right-wingers bent on "rebuilding America" in their image. If the rebuilding takes place over a pile of rotting corpses, the majority of them being innocent folks just trying to scraqe by in a hellish reality, it's all gravy right? Anyway, I see this dragging out into some long philosophical debate and to be perfectly honest I'm not a huge fan of those. Might as well agree to disagree.

Are you talking about the Butch at vault 101.

Fallout Bible is not Canon. The games trump the bible. The Bible was writen long ago before Bethesda bought the rights and Van Buren was still being made. All the games prove there is no other Enclave bases around the world. There is Zero proof. I have already posted why there can't be. The Virus the Enclave were working on in Fallout 2 would have killed every one everywhere not given the inoculation. Enclave don't have the means to travel around the world. The entire Enclave command was on the Oil Rig. The Brotherhood in Fallout 3 would end up hunting down any Enclave outposts in the area. Like you Sigma squad, all five of them :rolleyes:

There was a thread on the idea of Enclave bases around the world going by that one line. The Bible is wrong, trumped by the games themselves. Most of the Enclave fans on this forum agree that there are no bases around the world. The in game evidence does not support world wide bases.

If the Enclave have hundreds of thousands of troops and world wide bases and the means to travel around the world and have such advanced tech... Then what were they doing from 2077 till 2041? Thumb twiddling their thumbs? :rolleyes:

Only place there is Enclave is in Chicago at an out post.

In short pretty much everything ==> http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1173240-the-enclave-is-not-destroyed/page__view__findpost__p__17380070

So, the Enclave are Nazis now?

Arcade Gannon and the other remnants looks good people though

As for the Enclave, they are remnants, they was defeated at least 3 times