Yup, "pure", in the Enclave context, actually means Aryan. :rolleyes:

Thy just hate mutations (if you think of feral ghouls and supermutatns they have some good reasons to) and wish to exterminate all of them. They are only remnants and can't become much more unless they get rid of all of their beliefs and allow mutations to join (and how many do you think would, I doubt there'd be many).

Will technically, it's "pure strain human" they don't really care if your eyes are blue and hair is blond.

They are taught to hate mainland mutants and such, presuamably to make the Project seem less un-ethical and even a good thing, not just a necessacity, whilst they are genetically different. It is also for political reasons, it would be impossible for the Enclave to establish law and order across the mainland and nobody respects their authority anyway; as far as they were concerned, starting again was the only reasonable course of action.

To those that were going by that one line in the fallout bible about the Enclave going to other bases around the world before the great war.. Look again :thumbsup:

"Come 2077, with total nuclear war rapidly arriving at America's doorstep, the President of the United States and a number of other members of the conspiracy left their posts to take refuge on the Poseidon oil rig. Here, the President himself set up a secret base from which the USA could continue to exist and wage war on China, with the eventual goal of retaking the continental United States. Some members of the Enclave retreated to remote locations in other parts of the world, but when the bombs hit, they lost all contact with the main group."

Wiki has been changed :wink_smile:

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Enclave

They always were. Surprised this is a shock to you.

This.

I support the Enclave (to an extant) and hope that they stick around as remnants for a few years, atleast.

Agreed.

The Enclave has one main function, to restore America to it's former glory. Frankly, this is impossible in the current apocalyptic situation. With mutants, ghouls, and other mutated beings running amok, the Enclave has to figure out a way to deal with this. Thus they chose to take the plan that involved less potential human casualties on their side: a plan to saturate the air with a FEV-based chemical that would wipe out the entire local population. While I agree that this may not be the most ethical way to deal with it, you have to look at this from a numerical standpoint. The Enclave, while numerically and technologically strong, has limited recruits and personnel compared to the number of mutants out there in the wasteland. This includes any super mutant, ghoul, raider, radscorpion, and any human-populated faction out there, (with the exception of some BoS factions). If they were to actually send out their troops on a mission to wipe out any form of irradiation, there would be limited success. This would include using the limited number of Vertibirds (remember, they could only maintain Vertibirds, not create them) and fuel (this was especially limited) they have, precious pure human personnel, and expensive Power Armor and equipment. That's why in both the Western (Oil Rig) Enclave and Eastern (Raven Rock) Enclave, they chose to take the plan where they could sit back and take the region over after the FEV virus had eliminated most of the resistance. Of course, this is where Black Isle and Bethesda introduce a hero that cannot join the Enclave, but rather wipes them out in their respective regions. The Chosen One and the 101 Hero both have what I would call "protagonist immunity", where all of the well-prepared and organized fortifications and forces they had that took countless years to build were destroyed in a few hours by one guy and a few of his companions. That's why I really hope in a future DLC or game that there will be a chance to see a growing Enclave faction, and actually join them than be forced with the decision to annihilate them.

In comparison, other powerful factions of the Fallout universe are much more weak when compared to the Enclave. The BoS (which was originally a small group of soldiers and their families rebelling against the government) is equally reclusive and somewhat technologically advanced as the Enclave. However, the Enclave, given time, would make much more progress than the BoS ever would. If you compared the Mojave chapter of the BoS to the Enclave, you could see the difference. In the Mojave chapter, you saw a BoS faction, that was busy following a obviously deranged Elder (Elijah) that was leading them to imminent doom by focusing on the little situations rather than the big one. Elijah chose to focus on a single structure that, while housing a super weapon, could have been captured in the much easier after building a successful strategy. Instead, he chose to waste previous Paladins and Initiates, throwing them against the NCR forces until he was able to extract some technological data (which of course he never acquired) that the NCR would have never possibly been able to even access given their lack of technology and competent engineers and researchers. Elder McNamara was no different, as he chose to retreat the BoS to a location that was essentially, right next door to where they were defeated. He chose to hide in recluse for an unreasonable long amount of time next door to his enemy while he could of simply used the Hidden Valley as a temporary shelter, and move out in the night when the NCR would have a harder time tracking them. He could have very well relocated to a much further location where a NCR presence was much lower. In comparison, look at Richardson's Enclave. While they were reclusive as well, they weren't as hiding as they were growing. Richardson had a huge force, ranging from the super human Frank Horrigan to the armada of troops in Power Armor and plasma weapons he had at his disposal. Richardson chose to pick his battles wisely, and chose only specific targets that were low-attention to other warring factions, such as Arroyo (of course, this is where the Chosen One, the player, had to come in a destroy everything no matter if they wanted to join the Enclave or not).

The NCR as well, is just as weak when put next to the Enclave. While they do hold the numerical advantage, they lack the sufficient technology on par with other high-tech factions. While they are definitely rapidly growing, the government in which is the foundation of the Republic has alrady been corrupted. The NCR is now run by a group of politicians who know nothing of how to run a nation. One such politician would be Kimball, who turned an originally steadily growing nation of power and technology under Tandi, into a imperialistic-like nation that over extends it's borders and regions and spreads it's troops out too thinly (examples in the real world of this would be the former British Empire, the WW2-Era Japan, and the Napoleonic France, and we saw the success of those nations). While certainly powerful, the NCR is already weak internally, and thus cannot truly grow into a powerful faction as the Enclave. Compared to Richardson, Kimball would be something short of a moron. Richardson had one goal, and that was to better the future America that was the Enclave. Rather than focusing on his own personal fortune or fate, he lead the Enclave to a stronger and much more strengthened faction. This is why the Enclave essentially kicks the ass of any other faction out there.

On the topic of remaining forces and bases, the Enclave still could have much hidden away in the huge expanse of America. We still haven't seen any post-war recognition of Alaska or Canada, two areas that the Enclave could have surely used as for military bases. In addition, Chicago has been explicitly stated, so there must be a significant force there. With Enclave personnel retreating from bases such as Raven Rock and the Mobile Base Crawler, we could see Chicago turn into a powerful location for the Enclave to rebuild. Also, much of the rest of the US has still yet to be mentioned yet. Regions such as Florida, Texas, Washington, Vermont, Delaware, and North Dakota have yet to be fully introduced, and there is most likely numerous Vaults there, as well as an Enclave presence.

Styles just because they lost contact doesn t mean they r gone. They may have desided the people in these remote locations were "pure" as already said. Maybe those groups thought it would be better to start from there. Now once i think u told me the vertibirds flew on fossil fuel then that shoots world travel for them. So they may be land locked and its taking them a long time to find a way to produce world wide transportation. As long as there is a remote location line out there no one knows. They might be dead they might be thriving we don t know. What I do know is that if Im Bethesda I m keeping them in my back pocket. Not for fo4, but for down the road.

I love how sometimes the Fallout Bible is canon but them sometime it s just semi- canon. More like if it fits ones point then its pure canon, but if it goes against ones argument then its semi-canon. Styles I think you re the one that told to go take a look at it. Now I come back with info from it and the time line and now it s semi-canon. Bethesda says its canon and they own the rights to the game, because IMO they undestand that many others had their hands in fo and they want all info canon so they have options. Bethesda could have said nope that doesn t count, but they didnt because they r not fallout hogs. Thats why they gave The black isle people at Obsidian the privilege of making what is real close to what fo3 would have been it beth didn t get it. Bethesda isn t a bad guy they just make a much more challenging and action packed game then Obsidian did. We ll never agree but both of our opinions r out there with some facts supporting them and thats fine with me. Its up to Bethesda really.

I wouldn't really consider the Enclave Nazis, they don't have anything to do with being Aryan. You can be any race, just have pure non mutated DNA, While I do agree that the FEV was a very Un-Ethical way of dealing with things, it could have had some minor changes made to it. There is nothing wrong with regular Wastelanders or civilized Ghouls. The problem is Super Mutants and harmful creatures.

yeah he was a follow. stick him in some t51b and give him a chinese ar and like 2000 rounds and he wasn t bad. He had a habit of dropping big weapons for no good reason thats why i always gave him cheap weapons.

I'd think the opening intro to Fallout 2 would illustrate that. :laugh:


I don't think so, if you take the communications operator into account. (I can't link it ~due to strong language, but its easy to find).

The Operator talks with the Chosen until he gets suspicious, then runs a trace... and is shocked to find him on the mainland; "That can't be right", he says.

All information points to them having one major HQ, and a skeleton crew at their new base on the coast.

I merged this post with the one above... Please delete.

The Bible is not canon IMO. I have always said that the games trump the bible. Bible is semi-canon until the games confirm whats in it, IMO. The games don't confirm Enclave having world wide bases. Now that it has been changed it means your signature is out of date :thumbsup: The important people of the Enclave went to the rig where they died. Some from Navarro moved to DC and started again only to be destroyed twice. The new wording of the wiki/vault, to me means some people in the Enclave knew the stuff was going to hit the fan and got out of dodge. While those truelly committed to the Enclave went to the Rig. The Rig lost contact with them and they did not care about them seeing as how they were going to release a virus that would have killed them.

Before the time of the great war the world hated America and America hated the world. America closed its borders so there would be no bases around the world to go to, at least none that are big because they would be prime targets. The Enclave on the Rig lost contact with those that took off to other places.

The Devs of future games would be smart to go with what is in the bible. For years fallout fans have come to see it as canon. The NMA people would have my head for calling it semi-canon. The person that runs wiki sees it as canon as well. As long as it does not contradict whats in the games. The old wording did have some contradictions so the wording was changed.

Exactly. Contrary to what some people seem to think, the Enclave aren't racists. And they aren't Nazi's, well becuase for one, in order to be a Nazi, you have to be a part of the National Socialist Party...

I don't like it when people connect the Enclave to Nazi's, then it ties them to a real world event and negative stigma.

Yes Mr. Enclave you r "old guard" I dont care if your 17 or 10. "Old Guard" are people that think the fo world started when there player hit the ground in fo1 and nothing else in the whole world moved except what was on that map. Old Guard thinks that nothing happened in the world between fo 1 and 2 and whatever happened and was said if fo2 is gospil and the rest of the world stood still during fo2. Also Old Guard doesn t like Bethesda so much and there handle of fo. Old Guarld believes that there is no way people like bos or enclave could or should ever change there ways even in the face of extinction. The cw bos is a great example of this. OG thinks Bethesda went against BOS lore by giving Lyons a brain. They even explained it in game had some members split out to show consequences OG will not except that even though it happened in game. Now fo2 In game words or events are gospel but fo3 In game ruined the fo name. Finally OG has little to no imagination or tolerance for anyone elses imagination.

Really? I have posted ways for the Enclave to change. I want the Enclave remnants to change. To give up on killing everyone and to just trying to control them. For them to ally with the MWBoS. I am not agaist Lyons BoS and I love the MWBoS. I also don't hate bethesda. You are the one that does not give a crap about Fallout or Fallout 2. In fact the fallout World did start with are player stepping out of Vault 13 after we were give are mission from the overseer and the intro. You are the one that seems to think Fallout started with Fallout 3. We know about the Enclave because the games tell us, oh wait you don't give a crap about the past games.

You say we have no imagination. Yet you are the one calling for the return of the Enclave, yet again! Seems to me you and others that think like you, only want every game to be Enclave vs Brotherhood. It does not matter that past games have reduced the Enclave to remants. You just want it because it would be cool!

We "old guard" as you call us are asking for new things, new factions, new locations. We don't want every game to be Brotherhood vs Enclave. Brotherhood are optional in Fallout and there is only two or three BoS in Fallout 2.

Now im not saying old guard are mean or that i dont like them. I understand where OG is coming from I really do. I ve been old guard about things in my life. It s a clash between OG and the new generation age has nothing to do with it. I ve seen new gen people say really stupid stuff and OG crush them and OG was right, but some one like me most of my ideas about Enclave stems from fo research. I never said I was 100% right, but only that Enclave COULD still be out there in the world. OG will not budge from their position that Enclave is just a few old men now and maybe something in Chicago but not much if anything. Even if I got my PC working right played fo 1 & 2 and still had my ideas OG won t budge.

Rook, I am not an "Old Gaurdsmen" but I really don't agree with anything you have said in that post and in regards to your argument that the Enclave could be around the world (no offense intended). I think that somewhere the Enclave still survives, abit in a limited form but living none the less (most likely in Chicago).

And actually, me and The Enclave (the member) started out with Fallout 3.

I agree there are Enclave left in America. Chicago area. I don't believe there are active Enclave bases anywhere overseas. There is just no proof and three Fallout games point to there being none.

I have posted this Idea before. Its my idea for how the remnants of Fallout 3 can be seen again. It mostly has to do with the MWBoS.

Mr. Enclave heres the thing about bos in all this digging around I do I found the bos pledge. I gather that its from fo 1 but Im not sure. It states this among other things "We will survive the end of civilisation, We will take responsibility for our actions, We will hold others accountable for thier actions, We will stand back to back with those who share our convictions and beliefs, We r steel we r hard we have been sharpened to an edge." Now thats not the whole thing but I promise u no where in it does it say we will hoard all tech and not give a crap about anyone but ourselves and we re not taking new members ever. So all Beth. did was introduce the new gen to what bos is supposed to be. When they went against their pledge I don t know Old Gaurd probably knows but, all Lyons does is follow this pledge to a T. Does that pledge make bos sound like they should not major players in fo history???? We will survive... is very telling because sometimes you ll need numbers to survive.

Rook where are you getting the idea that "old guard" (we like to be called dinosaurs) are against the Lyons and his Brotherhood. I like the MWBoS and they really go against the Brotherhood codex. They let in ghouls and super mutants.

Alright Im leaving this messege board for awhile i ve put more than my 2 cents worth in. Styles I love u and the Old Guard stay sweet. Keep an open mind. I wish I was Old Guard but i can t be. Bethesda brought in alot of new people to the wonderful fo story some of those people like me will always look for the story behind the story, because we just were not there. Untill I can get a global hawk up Enclave COULD be out there and bos will always be my hero. A new enemy if fine with me, but like I said give me soilders. CL svcked Id rather see Enclave 100 times than anything as weak as CL again.

Well maybe not you, but alot of OG talk like Bethesda messed up again by giving Lyons a brain say thats not the real bos. So I look and thats just like they should be. You look at bos pledge from whenever it was written and Lyons and Bethesda got it right. If the rest of the bos was like Lyons bos they wouldn t be hiding in holes.