According to ED-E's page on the vault:

"ED-E's programming contains a message saying that any repairs needed on the way were to be made by Chicago Enclave personnel, indicating that there may be outposts there. The Illinois license plate bolted to ED-E's side also seems to support the idea that such Enclave outposts still exist elsewhere in North America, but also that their resources may be very limited (or that at least one Enclave technician has a strange sense of humor). "

So despite many on these boards saying that they are destroyed, they are NOT! Score one for enclave fans! lol!

This is kind of old news...

Yeah that is old news. There is an outpost in Chicago. They are done as a major power. Destroyed in the West and for some reason they had even greater numbers in DC but were destroyed again. An outpost that was most likely set up on the way to DC, to me just means the Enclave are nothing but remnants in the East as well. If they come back as a large facton again it would just be stupid.

If they have a base anywhere, they WILL be back as a major faction. They might be different (not as evil, perhaps?) but I'm sure that they will get more members and grow again. Wouldn't surprise me if they are big in FO4, since the series (and bethesda games as well) seem to skip anywhere from 50-100 yrs in between squeals.

They should not come back as a major faction. It would make no sense if they do. It will just prove that Bethesda has the laziest writers on the planet. Enclave being powerful in Fallout 3 has caused many major plot holes in canon. I also think Bethesda is going to stop the big time jumps at least I hope so, they could not even get the concept that the great war was 200 years ago. It will be even worse if things are still like they are in Fallout 3 but only 250-300 years after the great war.

Enclave don't let in new memebers and an outpost is almost always just that, an outpost. A small station manned by no more then say a dozen people. "Fallout 4, Enclave Whack-A-Mole. Join the Fun!"

I would not be against DC remnants allying with the MWBoS (under Barnaky).

That's like saying Unity is not destroyed because there are still super mutants around. Main leadership was taken out and that's what matters.

What plot holes?

Fallout 2 makes it clear that the Oil Rig and Navarro are the only Enclave bases. The entire enclave command is on the rig. There are not that many of them in Fallout 2. The oil rig gets blown up, killing all of the Enlcave leadership and the bulk of the Enclave.

Fallout 3 which is only 35 years after the Oil Rig we see the Enclave in DC and they have thousands of people and countless Vertibirds. How did that happen? We learned that Raven Rock did not have anyone in it. Eden becomes president because he was the only one left.

Having Eden means that the Enclave in Fallout 2 knew about Raven Rock and its wealth of resourses and yet they did nothing from 2077 to 2241. That is along time doing nothing. DC had all that wealth, a space weapon and Optimus Prime which the Enclave would have known about for sure and yet they did nothing!. They could have taken back America from West coast and from the East coast at the same time and yet they did nothing.

How did they have such a huge population explosion in just 35 years? Now the problem becomes worse when you take into account of the events of New Vegas. In New Vegas we learn what happened to Navarro. Now remember Navarro did not have that many people, there were not thousands of people there and most of those that were there were not soldiers. Anyways Fallout 3 we learned that remnants under Augustus followed the radio signal from Raven Rock. In New Vegas we learned that people stayed at Navarro which later fell to NCR. Many tried to start a new life in NCR, only to be hunted down by the BoS and NCR.

So this means the small population at Navarro, split up and only a part of that small group went to DC and somehow managed to have thouands of people and all that tech? How?!

Why did they just not take back DC by force? Why did they try that stupid watered down/half baked plan of the one from Fallout 2. Insted of using Airborn modded FEV that would have killed everything on the planet in every nook and cranny. They went with the water born which would only kill people in DC and it all came down to "I hope the Lone Wanderer helps us with are evil plan."

Now the problem with that is... If they still had Modded Airborn FEV somehow taken from the Rig before it blew up. Why did they not just try it again? Why not just move to another spot and try the Jet steam plan again? How did they manage to keep a sample of the Modded FEV?

My theory is that the Outpost in Chicago was set up by Augustus on the way to DC as a relay and fueling stop. For the Enclave can't talk with Navarro directly and vertibirds can't fly that far without refueling and maintenance. I am hoping they made a deal with the MWBoS.

Another problem is how did Oil Rig and Raven Rock communicate?

Yes, it is.

(i cannot believe i am throwing my helmet in on this, but Styles, let them present their proof before you jump proof on them, it's only fair.)

They did present their proof and I agree there is/was an Enclave Outpost in Chicago. I simply put reasons as to why they should not come back as a major power. IE they are destroyed, as a major faction and we should not see them again. Are there remnants of Enclave? Yes there are. People in their 80s back in NCR/Mojave area and an outpost in Chicago and what was left of Augustus' people.

Their case was made "ED-E talks about an outpost in Chicago." How is my repsonding to it "jumping all over them?"

What are you talking about? He already presented his "proof" with the ED-E thing. Styles responded to the thread, and then the OP asked "What plot holes?". Styles answered accordingly yet again.



And just curious, I have noticed you put everything you post into parenthesis. Why?

Enclave on the west are gone

Enclave in Chicago area are probably a faction with few soldiers but are tough

and there's probably a few isolated outposts in east coast

and if Ronto is (Toronto IRL - canada one) - Enclave could have a outpost there

(Simple, While i admit there is not much proof, granted i agree with you in this case and all i was saying was let him present his proof if they want to, nothing more. If you want me to expand my reasons and get into a debate about this, i will, but for now, just let them explain their reasons, like i would if thus was Enclave General's Thread, before smashing their reason to pieces.)

I don't think you can bring back the Encalve without losing their identity. Racial Purity is a big part of who they are, and simple logic dictates that they cannot be enough "Purebreds" left around.

If you want a cardboard cutout villan, then yes an entity calling itself enclave could return, but it simply cannot be "The Enclave" without either a huge plot/canon hole, or abandoning who they are.

The "proof" was given in the OP. I agreed that the Enclave are still around. I said they should not come back as a major faction due to plot holes. OP asked what plot holes and I gave a list. I was not jumping on the guy.

(I just said i was agreeing with you, so i will drop it.)

It is destroyed.. Those are the remains..

The BOS in the west, and the Enclave in general are destroyed, so are the Mutant army in the west

Then they might be a different enclave. I just find it hard to believe that they wouldn't start merging the outposts/remnants and getting new recruits. They might change their goals, methods, or even their name, but I don't think they will ever just leave. Besides, w/ so many major enemy factions dead or dying (enclave and super mutants, leaving really only the Legion), I find it EXTREMELY hard to believe that bethesda wont come up with some reason to bring one or (more likely both) back. It's always possible that they will create a new villain, but I seriously doubt that. When it comes to the mutants, I hope 4 has some scientist find a way to make them able to reproduce. They are my fav faction, and I really don't want to see them die out.

Well then what is the point? They won't be the Enclave just something rooted in the Enclave and seeing as how the Enclave presummabley has a very low population count at this point...



More then likely they just won't give a reason or explain it like in F3. Oh and factions dying? Continous resurection of factions is stupid, just make new one's; like the Commonwealth only less ripped-off.

Sad thing is they should have died out in Fallout 2. Fallout 3 Enclave barely holds water, there are so many holes in the canon/lore. Enclave should be nothing but remnants. There is only one known outpost which is in Chicago. There are no other bases with large populations. Bethesda is not that great at writing (Fallouts) but I hope they come up with another new faction that can be a morally grey antagonist. There is no need to beat the dead horse that is the Enclave IMO.

Now I do agree with you that if we see any Enclave again they should be different. Change their goals. They come to realize that its "Game Over" for their dream of single handlely taking back America and rebuilding it for pure blood humans. I would like the Remnants of Fallout 3 to adopt a new way of life, "Can't kill them all but we can at least control them."

I would like to see the Remnant Enclave from Fallout 3 (In small numbers) ally themselves or at least work with the MWBoS under General Barnaky. Still I want the focus to be on the MWBoS but I would not be upset to see some Enclave tech here and there.

I hope they never come back as anything more than remnants.

I don't care if theres a reasonable explanation for them to be back or not. Having them as a major faction in another game would just make them the Bowser of Fallout, which I do not want. I want unique villains for each game, instead of rehashing the same thing over and over again.

Agreed. If Bethesda resurrects the Enclave to be even more powerful then in F3 I just wouldn't buy it or ecknowledge it as a game.



I had an idea kind of like that a while ago that Die Hard Enclave Supporters bashed or ignored until it got buried about two pages back. I would like to see the Enclave Outpost promising major crimebosses of Chicago the world if they do certain things for the twenty-five remaining mebers of the Enclave. Basically all they'd do is fight and/or become enemies with the MWBoS which would already be at war with the MLA. The Enclave would quickly gain control of a good part of the region without doing any of the dirty work, just pulling the strings. I think that would be the best/only way I'd like the Enclave to become a major faction again.

And it's not like they'd competely abandon their ideals, they'd feel like the crimebosses are inferior and the only reason they are not enslaved is simply because of their numbers.



That could be okay too but I prefer my idea where they are still seperate and in small numbers but also in control.

Unlike the MWBOS who are recruiting from the indigenous population because there are more loses than gains, the enclave wont find start they are somewhat more fanatical about their purity than the BOS and they are bad enough, so unless they can start some sort of cloning or find a way to raise the birth rates very quickly it would be pretty difficult to summon up a force to take on anyone without losing what little they have left. It was good to see how they were handled in new vegas with the remnants, i think thats about alot of what you'd find if you travelled around just small pockets of remnants of what was, and no commander with any sense would go on the offensive when all that can happen is they lose more than they gain, technology wont help them with the people to use it, and that what they need more than anything.