He simply stated that Beth is now in charge of the Cannon. That means most of FO2 is not cannon anymore... FO3 is now the most legit source of FO information. So then, on that premise, We have no idea what is going on with the Enclave. All we know is that they have at least one base in Chicago... And that Elder Lyons still sees them as a threat.

It would also explain why putting ED-E In FONV happened. They are probably going to include them in FO4 (If its in Chicago).

EDIT: Also, that explains why the Enclave are soo strong in FO3. Its a rewrite of canon.

Not so simple my freind, don't be so excited to put this to rest

Mk II

FO2 IS Cannon! Bethesda stated that long time ago, that doesnt mean that they can throw the lore out of the window just like that, they cannot rewrite it because the stated the those Fallouts (1, 2 and Tactics)are full canon

Fallout 3 is not the ONLY legit source, neither the Bible anymore, and the wikia sometimes is inconsistent, all canon Fallout are legit as stated by Bethesda (1, 2 ,Tactics, 3 and New Vegas), Bethesda cant just say "okay lets reinvent the Fallout history from 3 onwards" just like that, is not that simple. a lot of fans, from both sides will be really ticked if they do that,

I mean look at Warcraft for example, being incosistent since W3 didnt help to the new fanbase, and that just make more angry to the old ones

No thats not what he was saying at all! He was saying the Bible should not be considered Canon unless it was in the games or shows up in Future games. Yes Bethesda is now the keeper of the lore. He was not saying Fallout 2 is no longer canon! Fallout 3 does not override Fallout 2 it just has plot holes.

What Dario Meza said. Bethesda has said all but BoS is canon.

Did you even play Fallout 3? Its clearly stated that the Enclave came from Navarro after the fall of the Enclave in Fallout 2. New Vegas also backs it up. The Devs of Fallout 3 have also said that Fallout 3 is not a re-write/reboot of fallout. New Vegas is based on Fallout and Fallout 2 and backs up things said in Fallout 3.

By your logic Fallout New Vegas is not canon. I can ask Chris Avellone to make it more clear for you but really I should not have to :facepalm:

Edit: Reading what you said is making me physically ill, I feel like I did the morning after I got drunk on 150 proof rum, thats 75% pure alcohol!

Technically they can. But they haven't nor would they ever in their right minds say "Fallout 2 isn't canon". They confirmed it was along with everything else from the originals.



No please don't put that in peoples minds. It wasn't a rewrite, it simply tried to continue the story. Bethesda have confirmed what happened in Fallout 2.

Even by your own logic, (eg. Fallout 3 is "the" legit source of canon) there is absolutely no evidence of overseas bases, and most of Fallout 3 would contradict that theory.

Well. talking about inconsitencies, someone remember about Cydoril on the TES series?

there are 2 version of that City

Also, the Imperials origins, is portrayed in different ways depending of the game you are playing if I remember

Save the TES for the TES forums :flamethrower::obliviongate: - We're not here to sort out their lore problems, we have enough of our own thank you very much.

How do people feel about the following "Canon by degree", does it seem to sum up how we all feel.

First Degree Canon - The RPG games.
Fallout 1 through 3
Fallout New Vegas.

The canon of these games is absolute, with the most recent numbered game getting precedence in a dispute. (ie - 3 trumps 1 in a dispute, but 1 trumps New Vegas as NV's a "Spin-off"). Things that are not accessable without the use of Mods, Console, or the GECK are not in the game (and therefore not canon) for these purposes

Second Degree Canon - The non RPG games that are not BOS.
Tactics

The canon in second degree is only in the overall picture. The specifics of each event cannot be relied upon.

Commentary on Canon - Non in game articles

The Bibles
Unreleased game concept leaks (except BOS2)
Other developer notes and answers to questions posed to developers

These are not canon until/unless later confirmed in game, but are ideas from developers on making future games; they are not canon but any future dev worth their salt would be wise to follow their lead.

Apostate
PBOS
Fallout 1 & 2's Special encounters
Wild West special events
Vault Wiki articles
Penny Arcade

These are not canon. I know the Vault might be a slightly controversial choice but being in the game and accessable withough mods/cheats/console/GECK trumps this so most of the stuff in the vault is Canon anyway; but ifs its accessable only throught the GECK, then the vault doesnt make it canon.
In the case of BOS we'd prefer not to talk about it unless it involves a refund and compensation for our injuries.

I have a small opionion on this subject.

If you look back at Fallout 3 you'll find that the Enclave have pretty much been pulled out from hiding their motives, that would mean that everyong in the Capital wasteland knows of what the Enclave in that regions plan was. This would lead to a large disruption to any remaining Enclave as word does spread easily.
Now if you bring your attention to New Vegas you find that Enclave that weren't even in the Capital Wasteland are running from the NCR, this would mean that it has become general knowledge of what the Enclave's past deeds were, that would mean that all remaining Enclave would have to contend with the BOS in the region as them and the NCR around the wasteland.

That would make an Enclave force difficult if not impossible to sustain itself any longer, if the Enclave isn't gone yet they are well on their way to being gone, everyone knows what happened and no one trusts them, that also means that they can't get any new memebers(Fallout 3 says they wouldn't want any as they think of all people outside themselves as mutants)
Yes they could still exist underground in hidden bunkers, assuming that the people who live in the area, the NCR in the area, and the BOS in the area haven't already found the bunkers.

If anything the Enclave will probably come back as some new group, changed their names, and changed their tactics to avoid extermination.
The BOS and the NCR aren't even the biggest problem for them, there are still the creatures of the wasteland(If you played Fakllout 3 with Broken Steel or just happened opon an event) you'll see that a deathclaw can take out a few of them, even the Hellfire Troops have difficulty taking them down without dieing.

In the end I would imagine that the Enclave will fade away or transform into an entirely different group all together as they suffer from a lack of people joining, a limited force, a limited world veiw, and not extremely advanced weapons. They are pretty much on par with the BOS exept the BOS could easily outmatch them in sheer force.

Actually unless the Lone Wanderer hands the FEV Virus over to the BoS, the people won't know what the Enclave's plan was; they were going to occupy the purifier to hand out the water to the wastelanders, nothing more as far as they knew. If you read the loading quotes, the Enclave has been mostly forgotten on the West Coast now after the three decades, hence why nobody reacts to the armour; it is also mentioned in one of the endings that people were reminded why they once feared the sight of Vertibirds.



The NCR and BoS don't cover all of America and the Enclave don't recruit externally.



That is probably the case, in which case the Enclave will cease to exist; also you mention Deathclaws as a bigger problem than the BoS? Deathclaws aren't so common you know, the Enclave only go near them to enslave them. "A limited world view" :confused: and they are far superior to the BoS in terms of technology, the Enclave have access to a plethora of pre-war goods, superior armour and at least on par as far as small arms go.

In a competant world, the Enclave would have steamrolled the CW BoS in about five seconds flat, even without the orbital satilite.

I'm putting my money on 4 seconds, with a 3 second break for drinks and snacks included.



Ehh thats debatable, the wastelanders would almost certainly have had no idea about Eden's sabotage/purification plan unless the LW turns over the virus and the Brotherhood broadcasts it around the area, which they don't seem to do in Broken Steel.



A few points to counter somethings you said:

1. I don't see their limited forces as a weakness necessarily, it certainly didn't stop them from nearly wiping the world clean in Fallout 2.

2. I think their world view is quite expansive, they are able to see the big picture, hence their plan in Fallout 2.

3. They have the most advanced weapons available to an faction, and the capacity to manufacture them. The brotherhood can't match this at all, in Fallout 3 the Brotherhood states "we look like cavemen compared to the Enclave" and thats an accurate description. Also any plasma based weaponry that has been aquired by other groups basically originated from the Enclave.

If the Great Khans can survive.

So can the Enclave.

I'd like to see Arcade Gannon become its next President.

The Khans can recruit anybody.

The Enclave cannot.

Indeed, could a group calling itself the Enclave rise and draqe itself in the Ameican Flag... Sure.

But it wouldn't be "The Enclave" that we know. Racial purity is key to their identity - and I can't see Arcade joining such a group.

Well that's debateable, the America of the past 60 years for th msot part was one of Apartheid, but popular opinion changed and such things are no longer allowed in modern society. With Colonel Autumn having shifted his focus from being a genocidal maniac who is to say that other's have nto doen teh same.

I have a theory :deal: it involves the long lost Midwestern Brotherhood under http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2ZcpcO7C58 :shifty:

I know fo your theory, we have had many a discussion on your theory, and I pretty much agree with the entire theory. I really like that as an idea for a game, or at leasta starting point.

I dont see how they can bring the Enclave back again, im sure they could find some lame excuse but cmon man we blew them up at Navarro, they tucked tail and ran all the way to DC where they didnt just get their asses handed to them once, but twice by the LW and the Brotherhood. At this point bringing them bck would just be like a corny comic book villain that just wont stay dead no matter how many times you kill him, OHS NOES TEH EVCLAVE IS BACK, WUT ARE WE GUNNA DO NOW?! :shrug:

You know what would be better? If the Enclave were back but by some chance we had to murder another talking computer screen, seems its becoming fallout tradition