They thought James was pure too, they assumed that both him and the LW had been born and raised in the Vault.,

Also as to your second point. Wrong again, Eden's version of the virus "Modified FEV Curling-13" only targets and kills mutants and those with mutations, pure humans, such as those in the Enclave and vaults, would be unaffected. The orginal Curling 13 virus was the one that killed all unless you were inocculated.

Are they really that stupid, they were in cgharge of the Vaults, would the Overseer not inform them that a newcomer had arrived and also escaped (especially since these idiots actually believeed in the guidelines adn feared being fired by Vault-Tec)

Ignoring all morality for military and strategic advantage, I'm not sure what exactly Richardson thought was going to be accomplished by it. If it only affected human beings then it's not going to effect Super Mutants or Ghouls. But assuming it does all human BRANCHES then it'll do nothing about the Radscorpions and Giant Ants etc. If it's all mutants everywhere then it's going to leave no environment for the Enclave to rebuild in. Frankly, the Enclave should have just enslaved humanity with its superior weapons early on and used the cheap labor to start reconstructing humanity's infrastructure.



I don't think there's any evidence the Overseers continued to maintain contact with the Overseers after the atomic war.

Uhh no he wouldn't, because the Vaults and the Enclave lost full contact following the war. Its not as if they talked to each other to report on their current status.

In fact in Fallout 3, when the Enclave actually does try to make contact with Vault 101, the overseer has no idea what "The Enclave" is and doesn't trust them, even though they have goverment access codes.

Wow, then what is with the Overseeer following the stupid rules laid out by the Enclave and Vault-Tec about how they are nto allowed to leave and stuff.

Man FO just gets more confusing every day.

He's just following the original rules that were set down when the project began. Keep in mind that Vault 101 is the exception amongst vaults, most other overseers and their vault programs have been abandoned long ago.

It doesn't mean that 101 or any other vault is in constant contact with the Enclave however.

I guess this is quite true.

Really, dike Richardson's idiocy grows with each day.

If his plan was originally to use the Vaults as well as the Enclave to rebuild humanity then the fact that Vault City types and so on are no longer "pure" human stock after just a few generations of being released into the "wild." Honestly, I have to wonder how the Enclave assumed THEY'D survive. It's not like Navarro and an oil rig are perfect defenses against radiation.

Where is said that the water born modified FEV curling-13 virus was changed to leave "pure bloods" alone? Isn't it more logical to assume they would be smart enough not to drink the water? Have some kinda filter?

Direct Quote from Eden:

"Anyone or anything that has been affected by mutation will be eliminated. You will likely be immune, thanks to your upbringing in the vault. Likewise, the good people of the Enclave will be unaffected as well."

Also I don't think it was as simple as just drinking the water in order to get the virus to kill people (or for that matter, not drinking the water in order to avoid it).

Thanks

It leaves the new environment perfectly in-tact and only kills humanoid life; the NCR was built by Vault Dwellers, a few rad-scorpions aren't going to make much difference.



Vault City was drank radioactive ground water from Gecko, not actual sources of radiation; the Oil Rig is completely air tight unit so fallout cannot get in and Navarro... well it wasn't built near any sources of radiation.

Fallout is a radioactive particle from the initial blasts, it has long since gone and only isolated radioactive hotspots like West Tek remain

Not to nitpick, but something geing "air tight" doesnt stop radiation.
If you were in the middle of a steel cube that had 4 foot thick walls and no door, vents or windows, youd still be exposed to radiation. (though you might be worried more about a lack of oxygen in that instance).
I would figure they would have extra precautions... just wanted to jump in on the issue of "airtight".

So? Nuclear fallout, which gets carried on the wind, is a particle; a radioactive piece of dust svcked up by the vacuum generated by the nuclear explosions and ingested by us, therefor it won't get in or cause damage if it is airtight. Clearly there were no bombs near the Rig as they are pure humans, ie, there were no sources of gamma wave radiation, which can penetrate lead, close by.

This.

For instance, fallout is unable to enter a sealed water-bottle or something like that, which is why they are under most cicumstances perfectly safe to drink in the event of a nuclear disaster.

I suppose the fact that they "are" pure blood illustrates that they didnt get any rads within the rig..
I am just saying that gamma radiaton can occour in fallout and cannot ever trully be stopped, only "thinned out"

Now we are arguign about teh concept of Pure Humans, wastelanders for all intents and purposes are humans. This is nto really about whether the Enclave were particularly right in thier ideas.

I posted something in response to this in another thread, but could not locate it so I'm going to have to piece it together again. Anyway, people keep looking at the short term effects of the Enclaves genocidal like strategies. Yes, they are not good, and yes lot's of people will die, but your not looking at the long term effects. So will look at the NCR's plan, and the Enclaves:

Let's say the NCR continues trying to expand. Clearly they are not ready to expand and their methods are creating enemies, but let's just assume they're capable of forming a new government. They will have to send out countless soldiers to every location in the United States to eliminate the threat of feral ghouls, super mutants, and other horrific creatures. We have no idea what most of the United States is like and there could be far worse dangers then we know of. These troops will be in short supply to enforce the government/towns they set up because they will be out getting themselves KILLED trying to eliminate Deathclaws and the like. On-top of this, radiation will still be present and all the people exposed to it WILL SUFFER FROM RADIATION POISONING. When your character gets radiation poisoning in the game it is a relatively benign danger, but in real life it is absolutely horrific. These people will suffer from extreme pain, their skin will peel off, and they will die (or I guess turn into a ghoul in Fallout lore). If they don't die during the radiation poisoning, but have kids while they are poisoned, then their kids will suffer from debilitating mutation's because radiation passes down after altering your DNA (see Point Lookout).

Now let's look at the Enclave's plan. They kill everyone that suffers from some sort of mutation (even the most basic, so basically everyone but the Enclave). OMG THEY ARE KILLINZ ALL THE PEOPLZ? Yes, but heres a question: Would you rather die a slow, painful death with your kids being born with deformities and your skin peeling off, or would you rather die quicker from a virus? This virus would not only do that, but it would eliminate the threat of all Super Mutants, Deathclaws, feral ghouls, Radscorpions, etc. The Enclave will not have to worry about their settlements being overrun by creatures hell bent on killing everything in their site. Instead, they will be able to expand without their families fearing traveling past the next mountain corner where a pack of Deathclaws are waiting to rip them apart.

So is the Enclave's plan genocidal? Yes, I'm not going to lie, it is very devastating. However, the long term effects could be much better than having people sit on their asses, farm, and die from radiation/mutants. Now people (well technically the Enclave) could rebuild the wasteland with a government that doesn't have it's forces stretched thing defending everyone, and mutants screwing up everything they accomplish. They would be able to devote there time to establishing communities, eliminating any threats of radiation left over, and rebuild.

The NCR is already suffering from the affects of rapid growth, with Dr Hildern already predicting mass starvation with 10 years; a simple fact is that the NCR is not cut out to keep expanding, it has enough people to look after at home.



Not entirely accurate, only humanoid based life will be killed, all of the mainland critters will still remain; not that would cause a significant problem.



Agreed.

Okay but that plan is only good for the Enclave.

When did the radiation poisoning affect only the NCR that would happen to the Enclave too. Also do the people seem to care, they knwo no other alternative to living life ina wasteland adn I am sure they would rather live. Why do you need to force out every Deathclaw adn aberation, you dont only ones in the immediate area, people in tiems past did not do all this.

The Enclaves plan again does not kill mutants only humans.

Also what si wrong with people sitting on theri asses on in their farms, adn living a life rebuildign and eventually retaking the entire world. Eventually the Enclave would splinter anyways, thats just human nature. Yah their plan is great idea, I am not denying that, Im just saying that IMO it is nto really a great idea, ti si but it is not, get it.

Hmmm. I could've sworn Eden said that anything suffering from radiation mutations will be killed, but I might have interrupted it wrong.

EDEN? Your talking about EDEN? Fair enough, but no the virus kills humanoid based mutations, mainland creatures will be just fine.

I believe that Eden's Modified Curling FEV-13 Virus does indeed kill "anyone or anything that has been affected by mutation" (quote). However, the original Curling 13 virus only killed humaniod-based mutants and mutations. Its likely that Eden's virus though, would have only affected a large portion of the East Coast, not necessarily the whole world as with the original virus.

This is not to say that a virus couldn't have been cooked up later for the specific elemination of mutant critters though (in the case of Curling 13).



And why is that a bad thing?

(Lets not get into another Eden debate though )

Just saying, the Big R's plan was bigger and closer at hand (only hours away from certain victory) and the Enclave was larger.

Of course, Richardson's plan would have meant total Enclave victory without a doubt.

You have to hand it to Eden though, he and his scientists were able to improve upon Richardson's original virus, it only targeted non-pure humans and would have wiped out many wasteland mutant creatures. Its unfortunate that he didn't have a more effective means of distributing it though (which makes Richardson's more potent).