Granted, I don't like what Bethesda did with the Enclave, but what they create does have to credited as the truth in the Fallout universe now. We can't just ignore it because we don't agree with it, even though we may want to. Anyway I checked over the Vault wiki and at this page (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Take_it_Back!) under the section "Contaminating the Water" it says the only creatures spared by the virus would be pure humans.

Also, if the Enclave was able to inject the FEV virus into the water liked they planned I'm sure it would eventually travel along. The Enclave would have access to the technology behind the water purifier, the methods of constructing the virus, and nothing in there way from expanding along the East Coast, eventually traveling across the United States "purifying" the water.

That's merely the wikia wording, a few of my original edits still stand that I know some wouldn't agree with; the ending slides say only that "Humanity would survive in it's purest form.



More than likely, I just think the true glory days of the Enclave died when the ENCLAVE exploded.

Its true. The Enclave in Fallout 3 are only a shadow of their former power.

However I think there was still at least some potential for them to regain a portion of that power. Now though, the best they can hope for is continued existance really.



I think the quote from Eden backs that conclusion up as well.

What I don't understand is, The Enclave is killing off mutants that live on the mainland.

Then they go to the mainland; and release the vault dwellers out there too.

Wouldn't they get mutated like everybody else? :confused:

Oh, but I already know what your going to say. "Enclave has techno-blahblahblah and they are invincible to rads because they're cool."

EDIT: Oh and another thing, How would the very small Enclave handle huge threats like deathclaws and killer creatures? You guys just said the virus only affects humanoid creatures...

Because the mainland population are mutated due to their ansestors gaining the original genetic deformaties and mutations and passing them on. The Enclave and Vault Dwellers will be fine provided that they don't go to the Glow or anything, the air on the mainland isn't toxic and mutagenic, besides the Enclave already had people on the mainland and they were fine.

EDIT: They would shoot them, how's a deathclaw going to threaten Navarro?

Ha, I meant when they were out on the mainland... wouldn't they be spread really thin trying to protect vault city like communities?

The answer is simple then, don't build isolated communities. The Enclave doesn't appear to have any private sector, I doubt that someone who has lived his whole life in an Enclave like regime is going to want to just try and build a farm in the middle of the wasteland (which all of the Enclave believe to be mostly inhospitable anyway, see Richardson's dialouge); besides it'll all be planned out in advance what's going to happen.

You know, the more you talk about the Enclave plan the more it seems like something of that magnitude could've worked in say, 2080.. or shortly after the war.

But I mean look at everything now. Even if the NCR is corrupt to a degree they still have organized government. They must maintain some peace back in their homeland. (Talking to soldiers in New Vegas makes it sound like Pre-War America, as they talk about growing up on farms and whatnot)

And of course, even though I dislike them you have The Legion... and Mr.House who has big plans for the entire human race.

Using FEV in the current time or any time frame other than right after the war would just be counter productive, really.

I believe that the Enclave were too paranoid about the dangers of the wasteland (something which they never really were fully aquinted with) and simply waited to long, they decided to contact the mainland in the 2170's but saw only the Master's Army causing havoc; they then began work on the Project after visiting the Maripose Military Base (after the Master had been defeated) and collect FEV samples and data.

It's 01:36 here so I am cashing out for the night.

wow, A European Enclave lover? wow.

They just did it too late. Maybe if after the war they just threw out the virus and then came in to fix things, maybe in 2277 we might have had a government back...

But now, it would be more like murder with the re emergence of society. But like I said, they still could've came out and helped people instead of shooting like maniacs. The time for FEV was long past by Fallout 2.

Perhaps, I still believe however that they would have created a better world.

One does not have to be an American to appreciate the Enclave and it's plan, hell in reality I'm usually an advocate of decreasing government intervention in the private sector and smaller government all around; I don't have any particular pro-American leanings either. I just really think that they are the best option, a little bit misunderstood and poorly presented on the part of the developers

And now I must sleep

I don't think that the Enclave was the best option at all. I think it's about the worst option.

Ironically, I love them IN SPITE of their incredibly stupid plan.

Why, you think that Caesar was a better option? Hell you don't even know how the FEV worked; it kills all humanoid (of which I Super Mutant applies) based life and leaves plants and animals perfectly fine, for the record.

It's a fool proof plan, nothing is in their way, then they rebuild.

Oh and the Oil Rig is airtight and in the middle of the ocean, so no fallout particles will get in and there are no nearby sources of Gamma wave radiation.

Caesar is a better option because, essentially, he's just conquering and enslaving. The destruction of all the culture of the former United States along with its technology is BAD, maybe irrecoverable but humanity would be able to recover from that to a CERTAIN degree. Maybe even get to the point of being able to live in a Victorian era-level of technology even if the resources no longer existed for anything more. We've already seen the effects of things like Caesar on a large scale anyway.

The Mongol Horde, Tamerlane (who was, in effect, a Mongol wannabe), the Visgoths, and the Huns all basically destroyed everything they touched over vast swaths of territory.

Humanity survives.

In the Enclave's case, the destruction of the genetic diversity of the human race on such a vast scale is probably going to annihilate humanity. We've already been reduced to less than 50,000 people before in history and that is a chief responsibility for a lot of the garbage that humans have to deal with today because we've got so much similiarity in our genes (humanity is one of the least genetically diverse races in the world). Now, assuming the Enclave has less than 50,000 people in it (which is a pretty safe assumption) we're talking about making that EVEN WORSE in the future.

What happens if a member of the Enclave has Rose of Sharon Cassidy and her dad's genetic heart condition? A prediliction for Alheizmers? A natural talent for cancer? I'm looking at humanity's future and it's becoming pretty grim.

Let's also point out that the Enclave destroying all of the mutants doesn't necessarilly get rid of the radiation (ala Capital Wasteland). We're, presumably, assuming that the modified virus is done well enough that when humanity leaves the Enclave Oil Rigs that they're going to be immune to the virus due to innoculation. Fine. However, there's no indication that the virus won't mutate in the wild, especially when exposed to Super Mutant D.N.A. In fact, the fact we've not seen any experiments on Super Mutant DNA makes me wonder about how thoroughly the Enclave tested it on mutants.

Testing it on Vault Dwellers and the Tribals is a BAD idea from the start because it's fairly clear that the survivors of Arryo introduced new DNA by intermarrying with tribals from the surrounding area. It's not nearly the sort of closed experiment that they're thinking it is. But yes, even assuming that the virus has no blowback, works, doesn't mutate, and wipes out all other humans BUT the Enclave (who are willing to deal with the low genetic diversity) then we've got other problems.

Labor shortage.

A major thing that is a problem Post-Apocalypse is that, aside from however good the Pre-War government made it, a lot of stuff that's vital to recover infrastructure wise is going to decay well before the Enclave can repopulate itself (and the radiation to die down so they don't become *quote/unquote* corrupted) is going to dissolve. NCR and Mister House has the right idea in that rebuilding NOW is the only way to really begin things anew.

Otherwise, you get the same horrible things happening as Caesar's Legion (all infrastructure collapsing) WITH the problems of the Enclave. Lord Ashur is a **** but he's correct that when you have machinery that's still serviceable, you need to get it running NOW.

Seeing as how the Enclave has done pretty well and it's numbers can surely only have increased since the bombs fell I see no reason to believe that a lack of genetic diversity will destroy them; it hasn't happened in any Vault we've seen either so clearly that type of thing hasn't applied in the Fallout world.



In the 70 years that it was developed I'm sure that they tested it quite throughly, they had a creature like Horrigan didn't they? Also, there's no indication that it would either seeing as how it just kills (within hours) and has nothing to do with FEV's original purpose.


Again, the Enclave has functioned perfectly fine on the labour point up until now; they didn't depend on the mainland for anything other than the chemicals for the Project, so they would need to replace any lost services. You think that building a society on salvaged tech to be the best way to do things? If wooded houses have survived a war and 200 years then I don't think that the Enclave is going to collapse because all the Lathes have stopped working. The Gun Runners have a factory capable of building armaments, the Enclave have built power armour on thier Oil Rig, they have means of production of incredibly advanced technology which trumps that of before the war.

As for radiation I already addressed this, they've had Navarro and even in the Capital Wasteland officers went out fully exposed to the elements; the air is not toxic, the Glow is toxic. The majority of places are already clear of radiation, look at LA, absolutely destroyed yet people live their fine. Adytum is a sealed community and grows it's own food; radiation is gone from most major areas. In fact if you talk to Richardson, the Enclave still, mistakingly, believes that much of the mainland is a radioactive desert, they will have plans in place for the recolonisation.

Humanity may survive regardless but the Enclave world would be a great place to begin that from; it may take a long time but the Enclave is very patient.

Uh, it was mentioned as the reason that Vault-101 is doomed and you can use it as a reason that they need to open up to the Outside world. Genetic diversity is also a thing you need to examine over a course of several centuries to thousands of years as opposed to the relatively short period following the Great War.

But yes, Vault-101 and genetic diversity was a big thing.



Horrigan was an accident, though.



Well the Gun Runners would be dead but I guess I worry expansion would be impractical.



Eh, I just support Colonel Autumn's Enclave. Rebuilding Humanity through Superior Firepower and Infrastructure.

SALUTE THE TRUE UNITED STATES! Redeem the tribals through Power Armor!

oh good morning enclave, get your one hour of sleep?

lol. we already had this debate. Like I said before, Some people think Enclave plan is better for the end result and some think they are too extreme.

I personally believe that the Enclave should've helped people a lot more and forget their genetic supremacy. Think about it, if they came out in Fallout 1 they would've been the only real power (and BOS too.) and the Enclave could've used their tech to help towns like The Hub, Shady sands and other flourishing communities. The whole fact that the Enclave are just power armored raiders in a place like the Capital Wasteland where everyone is living in their own [censored] is wrong. They could've, and should've helped their people, mutant or not. They could've recruited too, and spread their America-ness all over.

Just the fact that Eden was on the radio giving some hope to the Waste landers that he was ultimately going to be slaughtering was just weird to me.

He says they are Americans, and America is great and all that but really the only people who would be alive is Enclave and; what the hundred or so Vault Dwellers that aren't dead at that point?

Well I am really not one to comment on that, Vault 101 is what I figured you might say, it's one Vault in many and I really can't imagine that the Enclave would be as stupid; maybe they had artificial insemination, stocks if sperm and eggs for emergecnies... I don't know :shrug:. But yes, Vault-101 and genetic diversity was a big thing.



Yes but it means that they had access to, and data on, super mutant anatomy.



The Enclave never rests, never.

I've already said that the Enclave were paranoid about the mainland and when they did venture onto the mainland, just after Fallout 1, they saw the Master's displaced Armies roving around and no real form of government, they saw a lot of [censored] all along California and thought, "[censored] it!"

I still say that their "tech" is nothing more than weapons, the Hub had plenty of water and such.

Eden was a lonley machine who felt the need to project his voice across the mainland and "act like a real President" in order to comfort the fact that he is not alive. That's what I say.

Well, let's not forget that Poseidon Oil Rig was a stop gap measure. They were intending to escape the planet via spacecraft (I've always speculated the Hubologists managed to acquire the Enclave's shuttle somehow). The fact that they were able to make the Oil Rig into such an impregnable fortress over the past century is a testament to their ingenuity.

(I'm also a believer they didn't just have the Poseidon Oil Rig but several places as bases)

But I doubt they were really "stocked up" on genetic material. Of course, I think dike Richardson is the big architect of the whole "doomsday virus" thing and that it's not an integral part of the Enclave's philosophy.

As for other Vaults having problems with genetic diversity, I think most of them were meant to open well before Vault-101 and the majority of their residents rejoined with mainstream humanity. You know, the Vaults that DIDN'T go mad or destroy themselves.

(which were probably like six)




Fair enough.




Well in Eden's case, it's obvious Colonel Autumn is the real leader. JHE is basically just a machine they let put on airs while the real business of governing is handled by the military. I'm fairly sure that the Enclave's Congress, Presidency, and so on were wiped out in the original explosion. The Enclave in the CW is more like Battlestar Galactica's military - a group of hardened military survivors lacking much in the way of a civilian populace.

Oddly, it's probably similar to the Brotherhood of Steel.

I'm not cure of the canonicity of the space travel plan, there is no reference to it in any of the games afterall.

(That's dangerous thinking; the Enclave wasn't huge before the war it was a secret government, only makes sense that it be as small as possible. Also, the FEV plan would have killed all of the other Enclave, as even the Oil Rig required a huge mainland supply chain of chemicals for the Project. I don't see the value when it comes to something like recolonisation, of space or the mainland, if people are massively split up. Also Richardson makes a direct reference to the people of the ENCLAVE (as in Control Station ENCLAVE, the name of the Rig) and Navarro being innnoculated within hours.)

The FEV for the Project was collected 70 years before the start of Fallout 2, it wasn't Richardson's brain-child, niether was Horrigan for that matter.

You know the Vaults get a bad rep now, but look at Fallout 1 & 2, aside from Vault 12 the Vaults all worked; one Control Vault, one Vault just to stay shut, one Vault that contained people of various ideological backgrounds and one Vault which exposed it's people to radiation. Richardson also mentions one with fewer food synthesisers, only men and opening after six months.



Not really, Eden is still the Commander-in-Chief; much of the Enclave civilian populace is indeed dead and Eden can be running on nothing more than emergency powers. The soldiers do say "For the President!" as a battle cry and "For Eden..." when they die; [censored] Eden. Autumn leads some who are merely disgruntled with Eden's administration as opposed to the actual FEV plan, as Autumn was completely unaware that that was the reason the LW was going to see the President for the FEV Vial, as can be evidenced from his reaction to the it at the end of the game. Besides, we don't see even a fraction of Raven Rock, we only see 8 beds in the place we go to; Bethesda, in their wisdom, presumably thought that barracks and hydroponics bays made poor shooting galleries for the player.

The difference between the BoS is that being a soldier or helping soldiers is written into their stupid society; there entire social class system is built around soldiering or making soldiers stuff better.

I don't think its clear that Autumn is the real leader at all. Sure you can say "but Autumn was able to usurp command over some of the Enclave forces". However I think that its equally clear that Eden was able to squash that little issue. Not only that, but he felt confident in his ability to succeed in doing it, which means he must have a substantial amount of support. This would make sense of course, considering that he is the President. Like The Enclave said, soldiers also cry out battle cries of "For the President!" and not "For the Colonel!".

I disagree with this.

I think it is Autumn who had the favour os the actualy personnel, but Eden, basically being a C of G station meant that he had the tech to support the Enclave so they neeeded him. And also seeing as Eden started as C of G station means the Enclave were never actually affiliated with the Pres, as the C of G station si likely where he would hav gone, adn the Enclave just assumed control.

Anywyas it appears to me that the only Eden supporters were his robots and not actually the persons. So he may have squashed the uprising, btu was the uprising actually against the Enclave or was it just against some AI.

No, everyone that lived on the mainland are either survivors from the war, hence have descended from people that where exposed to FEV that was blow world wide with the Nukes hit West-Tek. Plus the radiation from the bombs. At the time of FO1 all that radiation is gone. The Airborne FEV is gone as well. I guess you never seen what APA MK II and plasma and Gauss weapons do to deathclaws? With there organized army they can easily eliminate pack as they threatened there settlements.

but that FEV was yet another type that innoculated against actual FEV. It didnt have mutagenic effects

There were wasteland humans that werent effected by either Rads or FEV, as those are the stock that the master used to creat SM's with.

I do believe that those people were still affected by radiation and FEV already, just not enough or in the right way to turn them into Super Mutants.