There is a difference between small genetic blips that produce variances in animals and thus evolution, and the kind of mutation that the Modified FEV virus targets.

The modified FEV virus destroys mutations which were created via the original FEV virus and radiation. This is of course, referring to the modified FEV virus in Fallout 3. In Fallout 2 it was just a virus which killed all humaniod life unless inocculated.

Even if the master's plan didn't work out in the end, he was right.

Can people walk through radiation unscathed? No. Can Super Mutants? that is proof enough that mutants are better apt to deal with the Post Nuclear world. Why don't you just pop in Fallout 2 and talk to Marcus? He'll sell you on being a mutant. Its unfortunate that The Master's plan was flawed. If it wasn't that mutants raiding Vault 13 would've totally been my ending in Fallout...

Enclave always were and still are extremists. They had the technology to help the people of the wastes, but they choose to wipe out the mutants (who once again I must say are better equipped to deal with the world today) and instead of helping their people they just strode around shooting them with plasma guns.

The Enclave also were un-afraid to to commit horrible tests on their people (Arroyo, Just like the Vault Experiment, showing that old habits don't go away) and only expressed a want to kill them under the guise of restoring order.

Enough with the Enclave sympathizing. Everyone knows that you guys only like them because of their Power Armor. :rolleyes:

EDIT: Oh and another thing, there entire organization was virtually brought down by two people (Lone Wanderer and Chosen One) ...... :confused: weak much?

Lol, so being forced to be castrated or turned into a mutant is okay for utilitarian reasons is right but wanting the Enclave to restore a civilised world for utilitarian reasons is wrong?



They had the tech to help the wastes sure, but not much of it and not enough to solve everyone's problems, in the end everyone would just be fighting over the Enclave's advanced but limited tech; you know restoring order isn't simply as easy as going around and giving out water to people, what the [censored] would that acomplish?

What about the swamp folk from point lookout. The radiation has changed them for the worse over time. All humaniod might become like that and how is that progess beneficial to the human race? We would most likely kill ourselves by accident before we die of natural causes. The enclave's plan might haved saved the human race before it changed into something worse.

No, wiping out everybody who wasn't Enclave or living in Vaults is wrong. Not sure if you noticed but the majority of the planet is mutated. Master's plan was just in turning people into beings that could thrive in the wastes. The Enclave was trying to restore a civilized world by killing everybody! How is running around shooting people civilized anyway? if anything they made things a LOT worse..... Your missing the fact that the common waste lander would be killed unjustly.

Ha, So instead of handing out water to people, which would've accomplished a lot considering a place like the capital wastes has virtually no clean water source, Much more would be accomplished by once again running around shooting everything that moves?

Man, its alright to root for the bad guy some times because they look cool. But I mean, you sound silly when you try to justify them...

Ah, good point. But now I can say look at the NCR. It has civilized government, and is much closer to restoring peace than the Enclave ever was. They were never cleansed of their mutations, and they do just fine.

Enclave didn't need to do anything and we are already starting to get peace!

NCR restoring peace? HAH! They have a corrupt government, and from what I have seen in the Mojave, they offer nothing but failure and fear.

haha you cant really use those swamp folk as the example though.. years of imbreeding, poor medical care, poor schooling, and bad culture beat the radiation to the punch.

It is hughly likely that those with strong DNA would come out on top. mutations/radiation levels that are too detrimental cause sterility, so those that were the most negatively effected by rads probably wouldn't pass their genes on.

regardless if the world is left irradiated, that changes the whole scope of the environment.. i am inclined to agree with others that it is an environment that isnt as suitable for current/enclave genes. Those that thrive in the new environmental conditions are the fittest, regardless of what our reference point is.

Here's you justifying the Master, forgetting the fact that they the whole point of going for the Vaults was because wastelander's were immune from the full effects of the FEV; so the Master goes into Vault 13, shoots a load of people and dips the rest, as planned they retain their intelligence... then what. Not what you might call ideal circumstances for the 'Unity' when most of the intelligent mutants were brought into if against their own will after witnessing the slaughter of their families; see what I am getting at here?

I'm not missing any fact, it's just that I consider what the Enclave would create, after they won in Fallout 2, better in the long-term than anything that the NCR, Legion and whatever could cobble together after potential centuries of fighting.

Your missing the fact that after the Enclave won, the human race would consist of a managable, healthy, educated, well looked after and motivated group of people with all of the tools they need to rebuild farms, industry and proper family life; look at the NCR, over-stretched, fighting a stalemate of a war which is bleeding them dry, some area's get better resources than others and according to Doctor Hildern facing mass starvation in 10 years. Presetly, these are the most efficient wasteland organisation at restoring order, and what a good job they are doing :thumbsup:. What happens when they meet something bigger than the Legion from anywhere else in America we haven't seen. The mainland will be devided into super powers who will continue battling.

The Enclave's plan renders all of the obselete and can be done from complete saftey aboard the Oil Rig, the Master's Plan would probably fail on a logistical level, assuming that they cannot create more FEV.

@Cannibal, Shady Sands did fine for Vault Dwellers.

First off I know Master's plan was flawed because they couldn't reproduce.

This is what I don't understand. Couldn't the Enclave have come and helped people, regardless of mutations or not? What proof do you have that they would be the most efficient governing body of the wastes? Huh, maybe the fact that they were destroyed by one person, TWICE?

Why does everybody have to be killed? If the Enclave is so great, couldn't they have formed their own democratic government like the NCR and made everything so great?

and as CannibalClub said the environment doesn't support pure human genes, too. So it would be hard for them as well...

Still, better than walking around getting shot by the power armored-mutant nazis that everybody seems to love so much here.

I never said that they were the most efficient, though I do believe that; merely that there plan was most efficient for long-term human rebuilding for the reasons which I have already said. Problems would be eliminated and I believe that Enclave society is the best geared towards long-term survivability.

The Enclave doesn't think that it can establish order, it believes that the numerical pressure of the mainland population would eventually lead to their destruction (this is what Richardson said in Fallout 2); they are few in number and the wastelanders are many. Too many people and too few resources, the very things that caused the Great War according to the Fallout 2 intro.

Oh and pure-humans are perfectly geared towards builging a government... the NCR was founded in Shady Sands by people predominately from Vault 15, it's first President, Aradesh was a Vault Dweller and his Daughter, Tandi, President for 10 consequetive terms, were Vault Dwellers. Vault Dwellers, pure humans, founded the poster-child for the wasteland rebuilding itself.

So, instead of trying to help the wastelanders, educate them and help them rebuild society and gain knowledge that Vault Dwellers have, whilst gaining more in numbers, they choose to wipe them out and nonchalantly proclaim themselves leader. They are just taking the easy way out. President Eden once said laziness breeds stupidity. The irony of him saying that is very amusing.

The Enclave doesn't love America. They don't love the people of America (wastelanders) The Enclave loves The Enclave.

Indeed the "Easy Way" (as opposed to the centuries long "Hard Way") is how I try and explain it to people sometimes, it's sounds like a self-insult and not just me being smug so it sometimes get's people to think. As for the Vault Dwellers I agree, I don't follow the Enclave to the letter you know .

Eden... christ don't get me started on Eden otherwise Andronicus and I will fill several pages.

I didnt say they couldnt survive. its also not a long term case where youd see the changes in DNA reflected in the citizens a long time down the road.
but it would change.. evolution has always been about a life form adapting, or perishing because it cant adap to its environment.

which is more suited for the environment: one thats already been mutated and changed with the environment, or one that has been frozen in time and has to play DNA catch up over generations?

anecdotal evidence..
a person with a tan (higher amounts of melanin) will be less likely to get sunburn than somone who is pastey (low amounts of melanin)
the person with higher melanin is more suited to be in the sun. the person with a low amont can be there, they just arent as suited for the environment.

agree! Unite anti-Enclave movement :intergalactic:

:P

True, but then again the Enclave don't think that they are best only because of their pure-human status (it's kind of incidental, and such pedantic differences are brilliant for creating hatred, which one could use to create social stability and a long-term cause); their technology can over come it and their presence on the mainland, which appeared to have ran smoothly, shows that they can adapt from being the palest, used to never going outside [censored]s the world has ever seen.

In fact Richardson acknowledges this fact now that I remember, the them maybe being less suited.

Now imagine their great government knowledge and technology meshed with the adapted peoples of the wastes.

They would be over-run, how can 1'000 people and an Oil Rig possibly help the NCR, for example, which outnumbers them, in 2242, by a factor of x700; besides the NCR doesn't have a clean reputation when it comes to smaller, technologically advanced people whom won't be annexed cough *Vault City* cough *NCR sub-contracted criminals* cough *For better medical tech*.

True patriots. Armed with laser weapons and Coolz hatz, they goez and shootz phat peoplez with radioactivez gillz. Really though, i'd rather be under their protection then some [censored] up raider [censored]es.

Chaos?

heh. im just saying they, or vault dwellers that re-emerge, or whoever is less suited for the post war environment than those who have had thier DNA temepered in it.

I would like to think that you will not make these mistakes ever again.

Unfortunately even if he doesn't. someone will again. God forbid we support a "bad" faction for something other than the fact that they have "coolz armorz". :dry: Sure the fact that they are able to produce such suberb armor is one of the reasons I was drawn to them, but not the asthetic qualities of the armor.

you're forgetting Marcus who helped bring down the Enclave at the Oil Rig..so 3 people..