Since the enclave are almost completely wiped out, they should focus all their work to create another being similar to frank horrigan. A fully armored, more advance, and stronger/smarter version of the old frank horrigan. What do you think?

I doubt they have the resources to make something like that. Such as FEV now that they have no real base it is doubtful they even have any left.

Should they? They probably have more important things on their minds at this point. Besides, Frank Horrigan was a loyal Enclave trooper when he was accidently exposed to FEV, so unless the Enclave went looking for FEV and another one of their troopers was exposed accidently any attempts to create another Horrigan would just be too dangerous.

Except FEV at this point is no longer around and contriving a new source would be just that . . . contrived. We also don't need any more rehashes. We already had Frank Horrigan. Let him be unique.

Enclave survivors most likely will just be absorbed as roughing it in the Capital Wasteland region as well as those in the NCR. Really that leaves possible bunkers and the Chicago area for Enclave activity.

With that little resources and amount of people another Horrigan would be useless (Assuming the Enclave's destruction in 3 and Broken Steel is canon).

Worst case scenario trying to make another Horrigan, which was an accident in the first place, would be the death of those involved.

It really largely leaves Enclave survivors to die or join NCR/whatever community their around and be like any other wastelander. Their ambitions are largely bygone though there's a slim chance through whatever's canon for NV and Chicago/Hidden bunkers/Hidden members.

Bethesda should aim for unique new stories for 4 just like Tim Cain said they should have with 3.

FO is reintroduced. Let's not rehash the same things from 1 and 2 again.

Technically they could try to create some kind of mutant like the OP suggests via Vault 88 or 87 or whatever it is.

So, it is possible. Pro, it is cool, con, done before.

My FO4 idea, which I never finished because people give themselves wedgies as soon as you utter "Enclave", had the main villian as a Poseidon Corp ghoul scientist, who conducted experiments like the OP suggested. He recruited ghouls and mutants, and while he experimented on them, main plan was to recover a Poseidon doomsday weapon.

In my speculation, the Enclave was one of the groups the player could choose to work with to stop him.

So, some mutated freak in power armor, cool, but the Enclave already had Frank, so I would hope someone else would do it.

Vault 87 was out of FEV so its not possible. I agree with you and others that it has been done before. As for the mutant guy getting his hands on a Doomsday weapon... that was the story behind Van Buren. Not saying it can't be used in a future game.

I don't like the OP's idea not just because it has already been done before, its just that I can't see the Enclave, (the people so against mutants) going out of their way to make more mutants in an attempt to make another Frank like being. Would be pretty ironic if they have to go to such an extreme in order to try and save themselves. I don't even think Augustus would be for that.

How about a really smart Super Mutant messing around with Power Armour and Fallout 2 Sentry Bots. He makes himself a mech suit out of a Fallout 2 sentry bot and frankenstein in some power armour parts. Can one up that by adding stealboy tech to it. Would make one hell of a "Boss" like enemy.

Sigh. I seriously do not think you understand what a time gap is.

There are roughly 30 years from the time the Enclave appears in CW from FO2. So, yes, it is possible that a team went into 87 and snagged some FEV. That is what possible means, they could have. Did they? Would they? That would be up to writers to decide.

I am a writer, and in college I was a history minor, with emphasis on military history. As a writer, when I see a plot hole, I wonder hmm what?
For example, a 150 year time gap is not a plot hole, it is a plot pit.

And I have never looked up anything on VB, but I guess gmta. And ya, much better plot device to have ghouls or super mutants do these experiments, for what has been stated.

Riddle me this then Mr. Writer Man.. Why would the Enclave go into Vault 87, take FEV out of it and then not destroy the sourse of the super mutants plaguing the wasteland. It sure would help win the battle for the Capital Building.

Your education doesn't impress me, did you expect me to go "oh well he is college educated and a writer I shouldn't question him." You're not the only one around here with a higher education.

Well I actually hyposited before that the Enclave might have went to Vault 87 to get FEV for the Project 2.0, possibly why it's a crapper virus too.

EDIT: I agree that there's no need to so smug about it though, if you actually have an idea of your own just say it. When you try and shove your "qualifications" down people throats like that it makes you seem smug, especailly when you didn't actual then suggest what might have occured in those 30 years.

Doesn't make much sense. They don't like mutants and they are fighting the Super Mutants in DC. So if they knew Vault 87 was the Key to destroying the Super Mutants or at least scattering them, then they would destroy it. They would have also known about the entrance into Vault 87 through Little Lamplight and I doubt the Enclave would have put up with a group of smart mouthed kids.

It would explain how they had another entrance into the Vault, if they were on orders from Eden persuing the Project it'd presumably be years before Fallout 3 and the mainland occupation so there'd be no need risking time and the mission on secondary goals that would be solved by the Project anyway.

So you are saying that Vault 87 had not one, not two but three entrances? How would it be a risk to plant some bombs and blast the crap out of the Vault? I mean they would already be in there why not blow it up? Deal with the one of the major threats now and not wait 30 some odd years for the FEV project Mark II.

By that logic, why was the Enclave even attacking the Capital Building or setting up posters around the wasteland and even sending out eyebots with Eden talking about America, if their plan was simply to kill eveyone with FEV? I think we discovered yet another major plot hole with Fallout 3

Why blow it up? Waste of resources and potential data, just wait until the immortal lord-and-master Eden gives the command to begin the next Project. I have my own theories on the 30 years gap - because believe it or not Evl, the Enclave aren't always super-productive. Basically my idea was that Eden was just biding time, allowing all those from the Oil Rig to grow old and for the new generation, whom we see are fanatical to Eden himself, to come of age; thus the Enclave would be predominately his indoctrinated followers and his rule secured. It makes sense to me at-least.


Yup. I had it out with Andronicus before, said that Eden was basically just "playing" President because of his ego; I don't re-call him being able to come up with a suitable justification for the radio's existance - as it had been going on for decades right? An untenable comprimise in security. I put the posters and other such efforts down to Eden playing up to Autumn, whom you will remember was convinced that Eden was on the level with him and the Project scrapped. What a fool, Eden can even control his enemies; hence why he's soldifying his rule. I bet he would have waited in Raven Rock for even longer but Autumn must have forced him to something.

Seriously there's no logical explaination for it, just something Bethesda thought would be cool I guess, Enclave radio I mean; but to anyone who thinks about it it's just a silly and egregious breach in security.

The waste of resources. Well when you think about the eyebots they have flying around and their radiostation that we know is a huge security risk as well as their posters and outposts they set up. Acouple things of C4 and some mini nukes in key places and the Vault would be destroyed and wouldn't be much of a "waste" Maybe not even that much, just blow up reactor. As for the data, they could download into Holodisks or set up some data link with Eden the Super Computer.

The Enclave is they had known about the Super mutants could have taken them out long ago. They could have done the same with Lyons BoS. But yeah Eden playing president makes sense for why he had Enclave radio and the Eyebots.

Its extremely lucky for Eden that Lyons and all the other Brotherhood, including the Outcast are brain dead morons that couldn't poor piss out of a boot even if the instructions were writen on the heal. How could they not know the Enclave wasin the area. How could they not find Vault 87. They had a huge map with its location in their base! Just so friggin stupid.

Let's not question Fallout 3 too much k? The only forsee-able alternative is that the Enclave left a case of Curling-13 at Navarro and the Enclave brought it with them. Which theory solves the most dangling threads?


I don't think that Eden saw the Brotherhood as a threat either in the immediate or long-term, without a player or a deus-ex-machina he'd be right too, Enclave would anhilate the Brotherhood in a straight-up battle.

It doesn't bare thinking about, Nathan could listen to Enclave radio on the trail and both Megaton and Rivet City people make reference too it. Like so many things in Fallout 3 there is no reason, just wicked-cool robots and power armour.

Just one more thing about the Brotherhood not knowing about the source of the super mutants. If I remember right we have to go to Rothschild to locate a GECK. Using the BoS info about the Vaults in the area we learn Vault 87 has a GECK. A ) wouldn't that be something the BoS would want as soon as they discovered that on their own? B ) Wouldn't their info on Vault 87 also include that it has FEV in it?

Fallout 3 is like the game that just keeps on giving. The more you spend thinking about it the more plot holes you can find.

I think that's the nicest thing you've ever said about it .

I think you over looked one other possibility. Before Eden ordered them to move East, he orders them to go back to Mariposa and get some more FEV to take with them to Raven Rock.

Doesn't that sound plausible and logical?

Perhaps... though they will be of the opinion that Mariposa is still sealed up and they do have the imminent threat to their civilisation to contend with; I don't know, I just find the Enclave going into Vault 87 takes out more birds with a single stone. It accounts for the different effects of the virus - different FEV strain - and the Enclave's exclusive way into Vault 87 to kidnap Lone Wanderer. Two more lingering questions if you ask me.

Perhaps... though they will be of the opinion that Mariposa is still sealed up and they do have the imminent threat to their civilisation to contend with; I don't know, I just find the Enclave going into Vault 87 takes out more birds with a single stone. It accounts for the different effects of the virus - different FEV strain - and the Enclave's exclusive way into Vault 87 to kidnap Lone Wanderer. Two more lingering questions if you ask me.

Well think about it. Eden knew about the goings on at the Rig and Navarro. He knew of Richardson's wonder weapon. But he isn't clear on the details of what happened to Richardson (You can fill me in on that I am sure). Still Eden would want to get his hands on that weapon as well.

So he orders his people back to Mariposa. I can see why the Enclave wouldn't want to go back there but they did it anyways because he's the president. So they get there loaded for bear to fight the mutants that sent them running in the first place, but are pleasently supprised to find Mariposa free of super mutants. Thanks to the Chosen One.

They gather as much of the FEV as they can and start moving East. When they get east they don't have the same scientific geniuses as the Rig. Maybe all the best guys were on the Rig. So Raven Rock had to work with the B team. If they had the A team it wouldn't take them 30 plus years. The B Team can't figure out how to make it airborn, but can make it water born.

Or even simpler. Eden just wanted to be different than Richardson.

Not entirely sure, the Enclave are aware that the Oil Rig was sabotaged but the guilty party is likely unknown.

I can dig that, that was my estimation for quite some time, I just figured that the idea of them going into Vault 87 in the 2050's explained more; I don't exactly understand your opposition if I'm honest.

Ok then I should have originally said IMO I don't think its possible. The likely hood of the Enclave having their own third way into Vault 87 seems unlikely. I had a debate with Gabriel about Vault 34 having another way in, using Vault 19 and 87 as an example. I guess I can't rule out a third way into Vault 87. What would have been good and I would have loved this, if we go back to Little Lamplight, all the kids are gone (maybe nothing more than ash and goo puddles) but for one. S/he only say "We couldn't stop them." Then there could be a quest to send him to Big Town or if you helped the Kid in Grayditch, send the kid to live with them.

Still I think its more likey they just scooped up more FEV from Mariposa before they hit the road to Raven Rock. If they would risk attacking Vault 87 with limited numbers, I don't see why they wouldn't risk going back to Mariposa.

It just seem far more likely IMO that they went to Mariposa and had the B Team remake the Virus as best they can.

You can't period. There's two ways into Vault 87 in the Lamplight Caves . The murder-way and the generator room way - where the security locking terminal is on the outside!


I can't fault your reasoning, we're just too sensible people looking at the facts as they are and coming to two different conclusions... except that I have an A GCSE in English Language, ipso facto, my speculation is more correct than yours

RE Your edit: That's pretty [censored] grim...