Basically, a thread to discuss whether you think the Brotherhood should, will, or potentially could die out in canon.

As for my opinion on the BOS dying out, we know the one in the Capital wasteland is probably thriving. I think it may be a Luke Skywalker situation with Arthur Maxxon. Basically, the BOS get annihilated and it falls to Arthur, Veronica, Sarah, Cynthia, and so on to rebuild it in Fallout 4. I *DO* think the BOS is going to get mostly destroyed - however.

The BOS became synonymous with Fallout due to Power Armor and so on and they're trying to reverse that a bit in NV.

I support this, but I don't think we'll ever be rid of them.

I just appreciate the depiction of them as neither superhuman, superbadass, super moral, or invincible.

At last check, the Eastern ones are doing alright for themselves......seeing as I believe the canon ending for them was defeating the enclave there and learning where the muties were coming from (aka, they destory vault 87 or whatever number it was).

The western BoS, I see them ending....in the next Fallout game on the west coast I think I'd like to see them like the enclave in New Vegas, hiding who they are and just living on the outskits of the NCR.


They are sort of a staple of the series, so I expect to always see them around, but I think unless they take the same route as the Eastern ones are adopting, then they should die out.

I hope they die out. They're far too overused.

Lyons bos has piles of Enclave tech and a few veribirds, better armour and weapons now as well. They recruit and they are g-d heros in that region. They are on the way up

Mid west bos had like 6 ending scenarios, so its hard to say what they could be. Very easy to say they are now an evilish powerhouse. They may have abandoned bos entirely. They may be chilling in Chicago with what s left of the Enclave.

nv bos too many drastically different senarios so no comment on them


Western bos over all.......... What ever is left will have to join forces with NCR at very least to survive. They were dumb and never recruited, didn t help others enough. They seem to be in big trouble......

I think it really comes down to what the devs think the canon should do.

I know a lot of people see factions as being black and white.
"the BOS are secrative and don't recruit, share with or help others." in this line of thinking, they are doomed. When? who knows, but the outcome is that they are doomed.


The question is can the BoS be written (not re-written) to understand this and emend thier culture to allow sustainance for the faction.

I know a lot will jump on the canon changing tain on this one, but.....

If their goal is to obtain any and all tech as an organization that would shield the future of humanity from such technology from falling in to the wrong hands, i say they cannot stay the same and continue with that objective. To put it more accurately, for them to amass the largest stockpiles of technology in the post-war world and perish would mean that they are essentially giving any and all access to that vast wealth of tech, information and in a round about way through it, training on that tech.

They could concievably destroy al of the tech, if they knew they were on the way out. who knows, though.. that could make quite the story as well- even as a definate antagonist in a story.

In my opinion, the West Coast BoS really do need to adapt to survive.

But seriously though, what is the Brotherhood's purpose? What are their goals and plans? All they have ever seemed to do is act as glorified vultures, what do they do with all of the military tech that they salvage, just store it somewhere in a big vault?

Notice I highlighted the word 'military' there, I don't know if anyone else has pointed it out but the BoS is an organisation entirely devoted to fighting, or at least being a pure military faction, they have three social classes and three schools of thought in general, Soldiers (Paladins), Military Engineers/Technicians (Knights) and Military Scientists (Scribes). Everything is about soldiers or fixing and making their stuff better; they aren't fit to govern anything really and need a severe shake-up in terms of long term plans.

I have talked about the Enclave enough, but how is it that the BoS even keeps together? The 'clave has propaganda and a massive national goal, what do the BoS do? What do they want to establish in the future? Why are they loyal to their codex and such when it offers nothing? People like Veronica should be in the majority, the BoS doesn't brainwash it's people. I know that Veronica said that most don't leave when given the option at 16 or whatever the age is because of family ties and because that's all they've known. Fair enough, that's why they stay. But why are their not more cries for change, I don't see why the BoS stick so steadfastly to thier dogma when it seems to offer them so little prospect other than literally prospecting; they're nothing more than California's most powerful and organised scavenging organisation.

There were, the Mid West was built by dissenters, people who wanted to change because they realised they needed to adapt or they would eventually die. And look what the MWBoS could be in a future Fallout game, liek Styles has hypothesised, they could be a powerful Fascist anti-deviant Dictatorship, pr they could be a tolerant yet powerful governmetn of a vast area of land on teh other hand.

Yet the originals are dying, and Lyons has taken to BoS to a whole new level on the East Coast. And I suppose they are going to be in Future Fallout games adn become more powerful. Which I see as a good thing.

The Brotherhood's elitism in the West will kill them. If they don't recruit then they won't get bigger, and after fighting with the NCR they are low in people.

I have never really particularly liked the Brotherhood. They are selfish, and keep all the tech to themselves for seemingly no reason. They have no ultimate goal really to rebuild society at all... They make things harder for wastelanders and people who are *trying* to rebuild (NCR). Brotherhood deserved to get their asses kicked.

I highly doubt they'll not make another appearance in Fallout. They've been around since the original. Like someone said before they are kind of a staple in the series. I don't think they'll be as major as they were in Fallout 3 again, but they will probably be something like how they were in New Vegas.

See... the thing is that the BoS DO change..

But those changes aren't seen as canon, or are seen as bad plot/writing, mostly just because of the change its self, which doesn't really effect the main focus of technology gathering and study/keeping it out of the hands of common folk,.. I think its kind of a false need for sameness thats projected onto them by fans and writers alike.

In New Vegas, Obsidian went back to the BoS being a dying dwindling faction as if to say "Look, we are still cool! the BoS is like they used to be and not like Lyons group!"


I do understand them being strict in numbers and possibly dying off creates drama, so it is certainly a viable route to take, but it is certainly not the only way to go.

Lyons people maybe have captured Enclave Tech but their numbers are still small and they only recruit children. Their power base is one city.

Western BoS are all over California and have been around before NCR. Their Mojave chapter may have been having some trouble but we don't know how the rest of them are doing. Lore wise the BoS have a state in NCR. If they have fallen in the West I am sure the Devs would have said something about it.

The sleeping Giant that is the http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtXhuaTcohY is still out there.... :shifty:

Styles Redding was no child. They recruit men from cw. It is said they are too eager and a lot of them die, but the 20 kids they picked up from the Pitt are not all they take in.

So all the advlts that I don't recall being recruited into the brotherhood, die very easy. Even with Power Armour and high-tech weapons. Great future for Lyons.

Midwestern Brotherhood had a high death rate for noobs but they were given total crap leather armour and weak ass weapons.

All the initiates were not orginal bos. All those men they are training in the courtyard are not original bos. Play the game to the part where you meet Sarah Lyons. She won t take you, but Im prett sure she talks about having enough dumb recruits to worry about.

I don t have fo3 anymore or I d do it. How bad they svck has nothing to do with it. Assult Rifle is not high tech. Some initiate bodys you find have a 10 or a laser pistol. They had crappy armour on too. It would be like 10dr it was so wasted. Pick up some Lyons pride armour and that will be in the high 20s after they die in it. The ones that live will learn. With better equipment and tech they will be a damn force.

Men die in wars against 8ft tall 480lb pure muscle mutants that wield mini guns and rocket launchers. In war men die.....

No doubt men die in war. Just saying Lyons recruits get power armour and advanced weapons. Midwestern don't and look what they were able to do. I don't see a bright future for Lyons if their recruits given every advantage still drop like flies. Where are they geting all that PA anyways? Those initiates at Lyons HQ don't go outside of the HQ. At least I have not seen them. "Enough dumb recruits" Does not make sense, clearly you are no dumb recruit if you show up with hundreds of kills to your name, kick ass weapons and armour.

I am wrong about them not going out. They do go out for training but only in areas the Elders think are safe and Brotherhood screening them the whole time. Like the TV show surviver, the people arn't in any danger. Still there was that one time where something went wrong and we had to save that initiate.

They also will not expand because they will run into people that don't want the Brotherhood incharge. Lyons and his White Knights will let them be. We don't even know if the settlements in DC join them or not. I don't see any reason why they would.

I don't think as many are dropping dead as you are thinking. It makes sense these guy's dont have hundreds of kills to their names, but they do have some kickass weapons, they are recruits cause they are green adn probably they do make mistakes and have little combat experience.

And so what if they don't take those settlements, there are others tha would be grateful for water, and protection. Even if it means paying dues. Also was it nto stated that the Brotherhood was helping to run the Capital Wasteland years ago before the huge Super Mutant problem? And the towns appear to be working with the Brotherhood.

Problems I have is where are they getting all the PA? Why would they think you are a dumb recruit when clearly you arn't but they time you are at level 20 or so. They did not help run DC before the Super mutant because the super mutants were there before the brotherhood. One of the reasons they went all the way to DC was to find info about these new mutants. (big deal they are 3000+ miles away and NCR is on your door step :facepalm:)

Thankful for their protection? Rivet City and Megaton were doing just fine without the brotherhood. The original ending was to have the water cleaned for everyone right away. Broken Steel changed that. Still if the settlements went years without clean water I don't see why they need the Brotherhood. Lyons seemed happy to just give it away. After all the people of Rivet City helped as well. Areas out side of the DC wasteland should have clean water already. Unless Bethesda want to keep pretending 200+ years have not gone by since the great war and much of the Western and Midwestern United States no longer have radation.

Yes this is true. Thye give recruits power armour that they seem to be conjuring out of thin air. But they don't give the LW a hardened veteran of teh wastes PA until later. I think I read about them being in the towns before they got beat back by the SM, I can try to check for a source.

Well they were doing alright, but they do complain about Mutatns and raiders.. Why not join forces with the BoS, they seem decent enough and partnership would be mutually beneficial. Yep and that is Bethesda magic that DC is in the toilet while in other places nations are being built.

When I first ran inti Sarah Lyons by GNR I was a dummie. I had been lost for like 3 days I was like level 9.

Play along a little here. Why so critical of fo3. Why did NCR not turn that aaa gun a ceasers camp and kill him. Why are there only like 3 guys on the bridge. Why do they not push cl out of cotton wood cove. Nelson has like 9 Legion there....why do they me me to help.

Forlorn Hope has men with only pistols and 20 gadge shot guns why does dead sea only send me to wipe out an underequiped camp.

You have to play along. You know this, but you just love picking apart fo3.

Lyons bos are heros people like heros. They will grow more powerful. They will be a force........

Cottonwood cove has an NCR quest attached.

I started out playing fallout three so I started a huge fan of the BoS. Afterwards I got and play Fallout New Vegas. I was crushed. to see the brotherhood I had previously fought next to cowering in a hole. I was furious. So I decided I had to get to the bottom of this so I decided to go buy the first two games, a picture began to paint it's self before my very eyes. Upon completion of fallout one and two I continued to read about the NCR and BoS I've come to the confusion that the NCR will thieves for a long time. As where the brotherhood is doomed to die out due to it inability to change and unwillingness to welcome new recruites. It saddens me but I think the brotherhood is nearing the end.

After FO3, it depends on the region. In the west, they're glorified scavengers and raiders that are perfectly willing to sit back and do nothing with their power as whole communities die.

In the midwest, the Brotherhood is pretty much as massive, sprawling extortion racket.

In the east...the BoS is wildly different. Lyons turned the Brotherhood from an isolationist paramilitary organization into a solid core of warriors and scholars thats actually establishing relations with the rest of the populace. They provide the technology and protection for communities to build, and a structure for a general order to be built upon. As the super mutant threat wanes, and with the Enclave crushed, Lyons' Brotherhood will probably put more and more into building and maintaining lines of trade and communication, running patrols to subdue raiders and Outcasts. Eventually they would return to being a smallish corps of elite warrior scholars, but ones that are beloved heroes, an order that children dream to join. A classic "Knightly Order" that exists to teach and protect.

If, of course, leaders as forward thinking as Lyons stay in charge.

Well that's really what I am getting at as Lyon's BoS have evolved a purpose; the West Coast haven't. Mind you I don't think that that's a fair statement; as far as I am concerned powerful/rich people have no moral need to help those beneath them. Regardless, I just don't understand what the West Coast BoS wake up in the morning to do? The NCR, Legion, Enclave and most others are working towards simple territorial gain and a better existance, ie, just simple making their people happier. What do the West Coast BoS do? They just train and scavange, people almost always stay in the BoS because of family ties and a sense of belonging but I don't see where this militant attitude on not changing comes from.

No, perhaps not.

However, there's no moral benefit to having power without using it for the common good.

Power unwielded for the purposes of others is worthless.

Yeah I find an NCR ranger there in Great Khan outfit on a cross. The same guy who the co at McCaren told me I saved from vault 3. The guy was never in vault 3 he was nailed to a cross at cottonwood cove. So how did I save him from vault 3?

The wonderful world of great dynamic well thought out writing lol

Sure they have. Preservation of knowledge and technology. That's always been their purpose and it hasn't really changed.



Preserve technology and maintain their way of life. The only real difference between them and the other factions is that the Brotherhood isn't a political entity at it's core. They don't really care about territory or rebuilding the world and it's not unreasonable for this attitude to be maintained.



Because it's their way of life. It's not like the Brotherhood has a death wish but if the only way to survive is to abandon most everything you have stood for centuries and the only way of life you have ever really known it's not crazy that there would be intense opposition particularly from the leadership who have voluntarily devoted their entire lives in service to the Brotherhood and it's ideology.