How much longer will the Empire last? With the war in Skyrim ongoing, no clear victor determined by Bethesda, and the assassination of Titus Mede II it seems that it is dissolving with no rightful claimants. Considering the origin of the Emperor's assassination was the Elder Council it seems that even in Cyrodill this institution is at odds with itself even as the legions are squaring off with rebels with the understanding that if they do not behave then the Thalmor will get them, heh.

Unfortunately there isn't enough going on in High Rock to determine with any accuracy what the Bretons will do, but should the Legions pull out of Skyrim to handle the succession of heirs as they did in Morrowind it is definite that the Stormcloaks would gain the upper hand. If the Imperials do not focus their attention on the White Gold Tower to legitimize whatever heir the Council chooses then results could be catastrophic. The outcome for Skyrim seems obvious. Such strong and independent neighbors in Skyrim and Hammerfall may lead the Bretons down the road of similar thinking, as it seems the weakest state in all of Tamriel is Cyrodill.

In an earlier post I examined that a revolution was necessary for the Empire to persevere. As the title suggests, perhaps the best solution for Cyrodill, High Rock, and Skyrim is dissolution of the ancient institution - the Empire, and a confederation of states acting according to one principle; the betterment of mankind.

The Empire will be around for awhile yet, although maybe just not in the same way it exists now...


If i were to compare it with the real world, After what most people consider the "Fall of the roman empire", it still continued to exist. they just moved their capital and renamed themselves "The Byzantine Empire". but it is still considered by most historians to be "The Continuation of the Roman Empire".

?I see something very similar happening to the Empire of TES.

The Empire will last as long as Bethesda wants it to last. Both the Civil War and the Dark Brotherhood (for the assassination) are considered faction quest lines. Faction quest lines have not up to this point, to my knowledge, entered into official lore. The base line assumption would be they leave the stalemate in place in the Civil War ("Season Unending") and the Emperor would not be assassinated. High Rock would be ill advised to go it on its own anyway. The Thalmor Agenda means they must go after High Rock.

Of course, Bethesda could choose to break with past practice and use those faction quest lines for official canon. We will have to wait and see.

Technically the Byzantine empire still called itself the Roman Empire, and before that they were the Eastern Roman Empire (it was split up into two empires, with the western one falling hard) the name "Byzantine Empire" was created by historians.


On subject I think in order to properly end up the civil war it would end with a stalemate and High Rock has no reason to disband from the empire, especially since High Rock and Nova Orsinium in the dragontail mountains are still on the Empire's side. Reason we didn't see either High Rock or Orsinium bringing in reinforcements to skyrim because after Tulius came to skyrim the civil war began to favor the empire especially since the Imperial legion were capturing stormcloaks and had the resources to continue the civil war as long as they needed. The legion also has the chance at lasting longer due to not having as much internal problems as the stormcloaks do in their turf.

I think the Empire is going through some hard times, that's easy to see but a full blown collapse? I just think that is people taking it too far.

The assassination is canon.

While it is canon nothing implies that it'll lead to the empire falling, in fact there is more of an implication that the assassination will help the empire meaning the elder council had plans to improve the empire and possibly the idea to further the launch of the second great war but Titus Medes II wasn't fully on board, probably too afraid of what will happen should the second war fail.

How do you arrive at that conclusion?

despite what you claim all the faction questlines save for political factions (like the great houses) have been known to be canonized in a way, so while the civil war factions may not be canon the other factions will be.

Everything that happens in the factions happens. The Emperor has been assassinated.

Can you point me to the in-game books that canonized those faction quest lines?

How did you arrive at the conclusion that they are not canon?

Just so you know, Nova Orsinium is gone. It was destroyed by the forces of High Rock and Hammerfell shortly after the Oblivion Crisis.

There is nothing stating they aren't canon and seeing as there really isn't anything to suggest they aren't cannon then they are canon.


It was moved to the dragontail mountains, also it was Redguard mercenaries not Hammerfell in general.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Orsinium

"However, this was not to be. Orsinium was once again sacked by the combined forces of Hammerfell and High Rock in the early Fourth Era, and many Orc refugees fled east into Skyrim. The kingdom reformed, but has relocated; it is now in between Skyrim and Hammerfell"

and the Orcs are probably in-debt to the legions because it was the legions who managed to save a large portion of the citizens of Orsinium.

"Mazgar’s mother was killed at the sack of Orsinium, when Mazgar was only seven. Her mother is reported to have killed thirty men before expiring. The Seventh and Fifteenth Imperial legions prevented the utter destruction of Orsinium at the hands of the Bretons and Redguards, leading the survivors to Skyrim. Mazgar remembers the trek as “terror, the chaos, the walk that went on for weeks through bitter cold—and never having enough to eat.”"

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/lord-souls-lore-notes

The faction questlines in past games canonically happened so why wouldn't the ones in Skyrim be canon?

Generally faction quests that are not contradicted by any other faction quests are considered canon--regardless of whether or not the PC completed the questline, it is known that someone did. If the Dragonborn didn't assassinate the Emperor, someone in the DB did instead. Otherwise Mannimarco would still be alive.

That said, this is not the first time that someone from the Elder Council became disgruntled enough to assassinate the monarch. While the assassination, combined with factors such as the presence of an expanding and hostile Aldmeri Dominion and the possibility of Skyrim's secession, make the collapse of the Empire more likely, nothing about this situation makes such a collapse certain. Even if the Empire is reduced to a rump state that holds nothing more than Cyrodiil, there's every possibility that said rump state might make a resurgence in the future. I suppose that it's possible that newly-independent territories might come together into federation like you suggest (which I doubt only because we know from previous experience that the loss of central authority usually leads to the provinces turning on each other rather than coming together in any meaningful fashion), but in the end I think it would be a temporary thing. Once the AD is gone, the Empire would almost certain rise again.

Of course, I'm basing this assumption on previous experience in the franchise, and I admit that things have changed considerably from Oblivion to Skyrim. After all, the Empire is no longer a divinely-protected state; the Covenant is no longer in force, so there's nothing that makes the Empire or its rulers "special" anymore. Honestly, I was surprised when Skyrim was announced to find that the Empire was still around 200 years after the end of the Septims, but knowing that it has survived even in these unhealthy conditions makes me even more certain that it will continue to survive into the future. Beth will want to keep its common thread throughout the series, I would think.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Myth_or_Menace%3F rather strangely canonizes a questline from Morrowind that actually contradicted another questline in the same game. According to this, the Fighters Guild and the Morag Tong (I believe this to be a mistype; the author almost certainly meant Camonna Tong) eliminated the Thieves Guild, though there is some question as to the final fate of its members. I can't even consider this "propaganda" like I normally would think, because there's no propaganda value for the Empire or the Fighters Guild in publicly acknowledging its association with the local mafia.

If canon is silent on an issue, then canon is not taking any position on that issue.

Why would the events of the game besides the main quest not be canon? The very idea is absurd. The quest completer isn't canon, but the quests themselves are.

Yes, I'm well aware of all that. Your previous post suggests that Nova Orsinium still exists in High Rock, in which case it doesn't. Nova Orsinium refers specifically to Gortwog's Orsinium, and it was razed to the ground. I'd also like to point out a few things. First, we have no idea where the new Orsinium is, only that it sits between Hammerfell and Skyrim. Second, where are you getting your information about it being only Redguard mercenaries?

Oh well yea that is an error on my part

Good propositions.