The Engine and possible co-op : V - Skyrim

» Sat Mar 06, 2010 7:44 am

I want this game a single player. I had my stint with MMO with Age Of Coran MP's like Cod's they get bit long on the tooth with servers full of cheats.
I want single player fun. Like Oblivion, little bit of Marrowind I played, Mass Effects, Fallouts and Borderlands (I know rewards are not great in single player then co-op) I want to take my time playing instead other players pushing me around and telling what to do.
Just concentrate on the game play and the story and don't worry about MP side of things. Have the good things from Oblivion, Marrowind and Fallout3 and make into this game.
If you make this MMO and you have the reviewers talks the game up because it a MMO that might beat WOW before the release and when comes into reviewing, it turns out to be a flop.
I don't want the same thing happen to this game like what happened to Age Of Coran. The first 20 levels is good and afterwards its a grind session and fell flat on the face.
Becareful of The Witcher 2 and Mass Effect3. They are got one thing in common (I hope for Mass Effect3) they are single player games. If those games turn out good after learning from mistakes (I hope they do) will pull the rug from underneath this game.

I think you have misunderstood my meaning. I am not promoting nor advocating an MMO, nor an online multiplayer. I do not disparage those things for those who wish to see them, but frankly, I can see how implementing them would be difficult, and they are not features I would really use anyway. My xbox isn't even on LIVE currently. I am talking about old fashioned, local c0-op for the moder gaming system. The type in which you hook up a second controller. The type where, if a relative or spouse, sibling, child etc. wants to spend some time gaming with you, or a friend comes over to hang out and is into games like yourself, even to a lesser extent than yourself, you can invite them to play in this massive, awesome world as an involved companion to your character. I have heard people say RPGs are made for single play. That is a lie. There was a time when all RPGs were on table top boards, with train sets doubling as forests and lakes, and almost every game had several players, not including the Dungeonmaster. The problem on older engines was that they lacked the AI and memory capacity to do what a human DM did, and had trouble dealing with an immersive world AND a second player at the same time. This is no longer the case, and will become even less of an obstacle as systems continue to advance in power and storage capacity.

Fable III is an imperfect game, but it has a near perfect co-op system ( and the flaws the game has are not a result of the co-op. Even with it, it is a far more massive and impressive gameworld than its first, single player only predecessor).

Elder Scrolls would greatly enhance its game value if you could have a local co-op second player. The notion that it would hamper story etc. is not well founded in reaility anymore. Even as far back as Baldur's Gate, a dinosaur by current gaming standards, console engines have had the ability to adequately handle seperate menus, achievements, stats and other customizable traits for two players at a time. The games elements would likely veer slightly more to the 1st player, but it would be entirely possible to make the second player fully customizable and interactive, even to the point of making it possible for the second player to achieve guild status and unlock achievements, without hampering the first players game. Now maybe a second player cannot head a guild in ther first players game ( unless the guilds offer duarchal leadership positions. .. not unheard of, especially in Elder Scrolls, where a certain well known nation was presided over by a certain well known triumverate of god-monarchs), that depends, but there is no reason why, with the capabilities of the modern engines, Elder Scrolls cannot introduce a simple but thorough local second player option, without sacrificing the length, storylines, development options or graphics of thier future games.

» Sat Mar 06, 2010 11:50 am

I also like the people who are all like, "BETHESDA WOULD WASTE ALL DA CODE ON COOP AND IT WOULD TAKE ALOT CODING AND I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT I"M TAKING ABOUT BUT BETHESDA CAN'T CODE." Or something so ignorantly stupid, Co-op would be amazing if done correctly. Just think about you and your friend(s) playing the game for the first time on opening night TOGETHER for once. It'd be amazing.

Flawless. :celebration: :foodndrink:

» Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:28 am

Anyway, if co-op was going to be included they'd be well into developing it now, they are in the final stages of development I don't think they can just add it in now. Perhaps in a DLC but I sincerely doubt it.

» Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:02 pm

The Elder Scrolls would never be the same if it was multiplayer. It would ruin everything.
Part of what's great with TES is that you are alone. On your own. Multiplayer just leads to bragging and becoming the best (in my opinion), and the whole atmosphere is lost.

» Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:37 am

off topic, but firstly: the excessively large text and horrendous blue colouration of it, may lead to ocular haemorrhaging. secondly, and on topic, co-op, to me personally, seems more of a gimmick that an actual game-play enhancement, and doesn't fit in with my interpretation of TES games in general. it would also cost a lot to implement, and unrealistic to spend this money on a non-vital, and somewhat limited use of technology.

» Sat Mar 06, 2010 7:16 pm

Multiplayer arena?

» Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:01 am

I also like the people who are all like, "BETHESDA WOULD WASTE ALL DA CODE ON COOP AND IT WOULD TAKE ALOT CODING AND I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT I"M TAKING ABOUT BUT BETHESDA CAN'T CODE." Or something so ignorantly stupid, Co-op would be amazing if done correctly. Just think about you and your friend(s) playing the game for the first time on opening night TOGETHER for once. It'd be amazing.

Umm. Well that was horribly offensive first of all. We gave our opinion, and tried to do so respectfully, but all that got was a screamign rant. you'll get responded to in the same way. The complaint is that, well, look at MW and Oblivion. They crash. A lot. They ahve compatibility problems, etc. Those iwll amplify with co-op. And yes, co op IS hard to code. Go look for the attempted morrowind co/op mod.Until they get the issues ironed out, it would be the same as mounted combat: A lot of work for little reward, and all of that coding goes into something a large number of players will never utilize. If you want a discussion, fine. If you want to throw a hissy fit, do so elsewhere. Youre not helping.

» Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:00 pm

Umm. Well that was horribly offensive first of all. We gave our opinion, and tried to do so respectfully, but all that got was a screamign rant. you'll get responded to in the same way. The complaint is that, well, look at MW and Oblivion. They crash. A lot. They ahve compatibility problems, etc. Those iwll amplify with co-op. And yes, co op IS hard to code. Go look for the attempted morrowind co/op mod.Until they get the issues ironed out, it would be the same as mounted combat: A lot of work for little reward, and all of that coding goes into something a large number of players will never utilize. If you want a discussion, fine. If you want to throw a hissy fit, do so elsewhere. Youre not helping.

Thank you.

» Sat Mar 06, 2010 7:12 pm

Co-op? NEVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEER!

Never.

» Sat Mar 06, 2010 7:24 am

No multiplayer period, not even co-op. TES doesn't need it nor would it fit with the "You are the hero" story line of all TES games to present, I don't include Redguard nor Battlespire as they are spinoffs and not TES games.

I have no problems with a complete separate game, after TES V, in the same TES universe that has multiplayer and co-op. However, keep it separate from TES.

» Sat Mar 06, 2010 5:19 pm

The Elder Scrolls would never be the same if it was multiplayer. It would ruin everything.
Part of what's great with TES is that you are alone. On your own. Multiplayer just leads to bragging and becoming the best (in my opinion), and the whole atmosphere is lost.

Wow, people are so ignorant ? Why the hell would it ruin the game if it was added as a side feature ... ?

» Sat Mar 06, 2010 9:20 pm

Wow, people are so ignorant ? Why the hell would it ruin the game if it was added as a side feature ... ?

Developing a co-op would eat up development resources that could otherwise be spent on further enhancing the single player experience.

What makes you think that adding a feature, even a side feature, comes free? Developing a decent co-op that works well isn't something you casually do on the side. It requires a lot of programming, balancing, testing, etc, for it to work properly.

bla bla

Must you use larger sized letters with fugly colors? Soma attention disorder or inferiority complex maybe?

» Sat Mar 06, 2010 4:52 pm

I would like co-op, because I feel that Bethesda could actually pull that sort of thing off without degrading the rest of the game's quality.

How? Its a single player franchise. Yes, I know that single player would be an "option", but all the time and resources put into multiplayer would actually diminish from the single player aspect. Sacrifices would need to be made, and it would be the true ES fans who suffer.

And Mr.Tamarian, It would take alot longer than 3 years to create a good multiplayer ES installment.

» Sat Mar 06, 2010 9:38 am

They have been in development for 3 years, with 90 People seriously ?
IGNORANT

Clearly you have no concept whats-however how many development resources are consumed in the development of a proper co-op experience, especially when that co-op experience has to be interwoven with a single player experience..

And: Calling people ignorant because they disagree with you makes you.. ignorant.

» Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:41 pm

I vote NO! to multiplayer of any kind.

why? would it really be that bad, obviously if there was a co-op mode there's a 99% chance that there would be a single player as well, nothing would be lost with this!!

also, i think the idea of anything but split-screen play is over-rated, and should be limited to this

» Sat Mar 06, 2010 6:05 pm

Clearly you have no concept whats-however how many development resources are consumed in the development of a proper co-op experience, especially when that co-op experience has to be interwoven with a single player experience..

And: Calling people ignorant because they disagree with you makes you.. ignorant.

Why are every single so called ''die-hard Elder Scrolls fans'' so negative about new ideas ? When Oblivion came out the Morrowind fans didn't like it ...

The future is coming with new ideas, face it.

- Case closed

» Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:16 pm

Co-op isn't necessary for Western RPGs. It just detracts from the game, besides they've already stated it won't have multiplayer.

The only kind of multiplayer I wouldn't mind to much is gifting other players items you find. But again, I don't believe that's really necessary either and the only times I want that is when I wanna help out a friend when they're having problems finding certain items.

» Sat Mar 06, 2010 9:14 am

Why are every single so called ''die-hard Elder Scrolls fans'' so negative about new ideas ? When Oblivion came out the Morrowind fans didn't like it ...

The future is coming with new ideas, face it.

It's not required to have co-op to be part of the future. Perhaps for some folks who actually like co-op, they would love it. But for the vast majority of players who couldn't care less about the game having co-op it's much more important Bethesda pours every resource it has into making this the most awesome single player TES experience ever.

And no: not liking or not caring about co-op doesn't make anyone conservative or adverse of progress. There's a lot of progress to be made in single player experiences that are potentially as immersive and expansive as TES as well.

- Case closed

You are entitled to your opinion. But your opinion is not the ultimate truth. It's just a matter of preference. And in this case it's a matter of preference that is vastly in the minority.

» Sat Mar 06, 2010 3:46 pm

why? would it really be that bad, obviously if there was a co-op mode there's a 99% chance that there would be a single player as well, nothing would be lost with this!!

also, i think the idea of anything but split-screen play is over-rated, and should be limited to this

Look at Borderlands, if that game didn't have co-op it wouldn't be fun at all. That's why a lot of people on here don't want co-op because it really detracts from the game. You have to find a balance between co-op and single player. Meaning the enemies have to be adequate for both, the loot has to be adequate for both. In Borderlands the game could be quite hard in single player and pretty easy in co-op in some spots and eventually with the add-ons the game was almost impossible in single player.

And the loot has to shared equally, you can't have people joining your game and stealing loot from your caves. Borderlands had that problem, multiple players want the same drop and only one will get it.

TES has always been more about immersing you in a different world and letting you project yourself onto your character. Co-op kind of takes that away, for me it's always made it harder to follow dialogue. Mostly because I play with friends and talk to them at the same time so it can be hard to follow dialogue or story and pay attention to a conversation.

I'm open to co-op but it cannot detract from the game in any way.

» Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:14 pm

Like I said in another thread. Apart from the time and resources thing. I disagree with co-op.

My problem is that co-op with MY friends would be awful for me. We are completely different when its comes to RPGs. Most are noble heros who help everyone they can, while others spend their time being mages and barely venture anywhere. Me when its comes to RPGs im a terrible person I murder, steal and generally taunts guards with my actions. My noble friend is going to very annoyed with me after the millionth time of me robbing a nice old lady shack.

» Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:42 pm

My problem with the idea of co-op is that, for every one person willing to help you or team up with you, theres some jerk off on some high ridge waiting to cheat shot you and 'tea bag' your dead avatar. I'm a bit overly serious abour RPGs, I dont want some 14 year old jerk sitting there annoying me and be a [censored] when I want to casually explore.

Aside from all the balancing issues it would present.

You stated the best reason of all.

» Sat Mar 06, 2010 6:15 am

I am not asking for a game fully based on co-op, but for just some areas, where i can quest with my friends, on invite. Or better some missions or bosses should be done in co-op mode only.

» Sat Mar 06, 2010 6:54 am

I don't want multiplayer to interfere with the depth of the single player experience. If they do it then fine, but they won't anyway.

» Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:26 pm

I vote no.

I think TES should remain a single player experience and all of their time and effort should be spent on making the single player truly great rather than wasting time on making every quest suitable for two or more players.

» Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:53 am

Single player is always an option, mind to your own business and we shall mind to ours.

Absolutely not. If there's even the most remote chance that working on a multiplayer will detract resources or attention from making the best single player Elder Scrolls I'll aways decry it loudly whether anyone likes it or not. No multiplayer/couch co-op/play with your friends/whatever in an Elder Scrolls game. There are multitudes of other games that support multiplayer to satisfy that. There aren't very many that stick to a traditional single player RPG format. Leave ES alone.