It could be solved maybe by creating road or street mesh that could be placed in the same manner as houses and other stuff.

I really love your idea Quix. ^_^

An idea if you'd make the mod a TC:
You could make a separate worldspace with a part of a city. Sort of like the Waterfront. And if you try to go to the main city you'll get told "Foreigners are only aloud to go to the harbour district" by the guards.

I actually like the idea of a TC. If you make it a "normal" mod, you'd always be restricted by TES Lore. If you make it independent you could create the world you want. For example you could let technology be further advanced, like steam engines or something like that.

What's actually about magic in the mod?
If you're a summoner you could just summon some creatures to work for you or control the weather if you need dry weather for harvest time.

Just as an idea, but could you integrate some adventure/puzzle elements to the mod?
Like A needs something like a varla stone, B who is a former mages guild member will tell you if asked that varla stones are found in certain ayleid ruines, which are always near waterfalls and C whose a hunter will show you a hidden waterfall with an old ruin if you tell him what B told you and there you find the varla stone A needs. So you get some clues, but you have to work them out yourself. Would make it a lot more interesting to play than following that horrible quest marker or getting told to go to B who tells you to go to C and then all praise you for your hard work.

Yes, it might be a solution, of sorts. I had paved streets in the prototype.
But fitting meshes together is hard enough in the CS, which was created to make these things easier. Doing it in game is fun for the first few pieces. After that it becomes quite boring (I was just laying out sidewalks yesterday and stopped after about half a dozen).
I can imagine part (half?) of the players would pave the city streets, but I cant imagine anyone paving a road from one city to the next.
Hmmm . . . maybe if I could devise some sort of snapping mechanism . . .

Another use for paved streets would be as part of the solution for the NPC path finding. If I have to write code to direct NPCs from place to place, step by step, paved street meshes might be the 'guidance system' for such a code. The player would be required to layout the streets even before placing the buildings.



Well, I don't know much about magic myself. Not as a player. Neither as a modder. As a result I don't think much about magic. Summoning helpers is an idea that could be used.



I am ruling out anything that requires new meshes or textures. I don't want the mod to be dependent on finding modelers willing to participate. I plan to use mostly vanilla meshes and maybe, some resources that may be available at the time they are needed.



Yes, there will be some of this kind of quests. Although I don't plan to have a technology tree as in strategy games, I plan to have some objects or knowledge that the player has to get to improve some aspect of the production system. Your suggestion will be added to the summary.Thanks

I didn't really mean just new meshes, but you could create your own story. Think about the vanilla models like the Imperial Dragon Armor. You couldn't just give it to the player in a normal mod, but in a TC you could use it without the player wondering how such an armor came to your island.
Also you could change things like the religion.
Will there actually be some sort of religion?

And some of those quests would be really cool.

I see your point. You are right. In a TC, I would have more freedom on the storyline.
On the other hand, I've been classifying the ideas and suggestions from the community and I think I have three or four times more material than I will actually use in the mod storyline.
So, I am kind of going in the opposite direction: instead of creating new ideas, I need to reduce the number of ideas already available.

Speaking of which, I had the intention of organizing them and post them here for discussion, so you guys would help me to select them and end up with a coherent set. But the fact is that there is SO MUCH (50+ A4 pages in small font and no margin) that the idea of a public discussion became impractical.

I will work on them this week and try to do some selection myself and merge some of them together and, if reduced enough, post them for discussion. Or maybe create some Poll topics on particular aspects of the story.

As for religion, there will be at least a little bit, in a sense that if the player builds a church/cathedral it will, somehow, affect the productivity of the workers. Maybe a side quest will have some religious aspect. But, in general, I don't plan on elaborating on the concept.

Have you ever used the http://mwmodders.com/farmermod.html for Morrowind. It was easily my favourite mod for Morrowind. It sounds like you are trying to achieve something similar.

NEW MOD SPECS

First of all, I want to thank again everybody that posted on the mod forums. I've been classifying the ideas and suggestions from the community (mine included). I must have read every single phrase at least half a dozen times and I think I got them well organized for future reference.

I had the intention of organizing them and post them here for discussion, so you guys would help me to select them and end up with a coherent set. But the fact is that there is SO MUCH (50+ A4 pages in small font and no margin) that the idea of a public discussion became impractical.

So I took all the ideas that were related to the mod mechanics and decided which will be in the first version and which went to a wish list for future versions.

But (1) the main storyline, (2) the reason for the player to be there in the first place and (3) side quests to get special objects or knowledge are still open for discussion and suggestions, as long as they are coherent with the new specs.

I updated the first post with the new specifications, as I see them today.



No, I don't think I used mods when I played Morrowind, but I would not be surprised with similarities.
This mod is inspired by strategy games and there must be many others with the same inspiration.

There is something about being able to see your choices make a real difference on your environment that I find very appealing. Few mods come close to creating this feeling, and fewer still succeed. This is a very worthwhile project.

Shipwreck!

Yes, shipwreck is a good candidate for the next prototype
The player and a party of 3 to 6 would start in a beach as result of a shipwreck. Other victims of a nearby 'Bermuda Triangle' would show up from time to time. Enough for a prototype that has the game mechanics, but no story or quests.

Of course, it is also good for the final version of the mod, but there has to be a background story justifying why NPCs obey the player's orders in the first place. The story also has to explain why the player should start building up, instead of just trying to survive until some rescue shows up.

I think a fitting back story for this mod is to have the player contracted by the East Empire Company, as in the Bloodmoon expansion of Morrowind, to oversee the construction of a new colony on the Abecean Sea, west of Anvil.

That's a lore acceptable beginning that covers all of the player's motivations.

Some fluff ideas:
Perhaps the player could be hired to to survey the island for resources first, then deal with some problem the original colonists face, such as setting a dispute in which the old colony manager was killed, and through that quest is promoted to being fully in charge.

I also really liked an idea that was suggested earlier about having to deal with pirates. Perhaps through player choices they could choose whether in the end their colony turns into a respectable trading port or a villainous pirate haven?

I am waiting this great mod

how bigger is the map going to be.will you post your mod in moddb.it will attract many modders and fans.will cirodill be in? why you dont delete all cirodil and creat a big island(total conconversion) .the pirate raid are great idea but it could be great to have some pirate villages/ bases .these village over time will spawn people/pirates when the populetion reach a limit then they are going to raid the player island and if you want you can attack them so they dont attack you or something like this.can the player have a castle .the castle will have 3 lvl: wooden motte : http://www.teachnet.ie/mmorrin/norman/images/motte.JPG ,a stone mote and a castle http://benchmark.20m.com/projects/Castle/ProjectCastle1.JPG : celebration:the more advanced is your castle the more prestigius is going to be.you can hire some gaurd (special)that are very strong and are going to gaurd the castle or gaurd you from rebelions and follow your commands .also the more advances your castle is the more advanced building you can build in your citie and more rooms for your castle

love this mod, got my eye on this

For roads, you can use the Sidewalks like in Skingrad and Leyawiin. Won't look as good as the IC roads, or land textured roads, but you won't have to make a new mesh.

Thanks, Broken_Glove. Suggestion added to the compilation.



Something up to 30x30 cells. About 10 times the IC island, which is about 10x10 cells. For reference, 30 cells is the distance from Anvil to Skingrad and from Bravil to Leyawiin.



When released, yes. Does it take long term mod projects?



No. It will be an island on its own worldspace, but lore wise, on the Abecean Sea, west of Anvil, as Broken_Glove suggested



No pirate bases and rival villages on the first version, sorry. This would require a lot of additional work. I will consider them for the second or third version.
But the pirates will attack, nevertheless. You just can't go after their home.



I am planning something more like a Villa, than a castle. But you may use any building format/size/style you like, so it will be up to you to make it look like a castle, a Villa or something else. You may add gates and walls around the area, but not a moat or a motte, as they require changes in the landscape.



Actually, it will be the other way around: the castle/villa/home components will be the reward for a good administration, so, the more advanced is you community, the more parts you may add to your home.



I think they will be great for paving the city streets, but not many players will have the patience to lay them down for a long road, because they need a little bit of work to align with the previous one. It is fine to do a few, but it turns into a boring process to do it many times.
I have a couple of crazy ideas for speeding up the process and I may try them sometime..


And thanks, all, for your interest and support.

Will you post your mod in moddb. it will attract many modders and fans.

When released, yes. Does it take long term mod projects?:YES.your mod doesnt need to be realeased to post it.also when i mean motte i meant only the wooden central building with walls and not like the photo and when you upgrade it will be a bit larger and made from stone.of course a motte like the photo would be great but the mod will still be great without it(of course you can try to add it after the 10 edition.also will rebelions be in game (even in the long future)?when you dont satisfy the people need they start get pissed of.and in stead of going away from the island they start rebeling and after
a certain amount of villagers get friustrated they they are going to rioting attacking the castle,villa.then your city guards as long as they get paid they will help repel the attack or they will join the rebelion. palace/villa/castle guards on the other hand are the most loyal.if you succeed in stoping the rebelion you are going to find new villagers(recruiting them).i find the idea of rebelion to be great and more enjoyble instead of villagers going away.you say they are going to be walls .how are siege battlesgoing to work.also will you expand the map in future versions.also such great mod would need its forum

Sorry to naysay, but I'm not sure I like the idea of rebellion in a game like TES. If I have to take a break from questing every so often to make sure my citizens are pleased as punch it becomes less fun and more of a chore. I really think that sort of thing only works in games like Civ where running the people is your only job.
On the flip side, perhaps happiness decay decreases dramatically when you're away? I can see that working. This is assuming you can leave the island and go back to questing. I'm still sort of confused on that point.

You will be able to build any building you see anywhere else in the game. Or any kind of construction, for that matter (castles, walls, towers, wells, sidewalks, etc)


Well . . . the first version(s) will be mostly related to managing the growth of the island from zero to a certain development level, by keeping the population happy. This final level, as I see it today, will be a large city with all the services and a few specialized villages, like one farming village where the land is fertile, a mining village by the mountains, etc. As the player progresses, the population will reward him with new pieces/areas for the villa.
Once the top level is reached, I suppose players will drop the mod or, maybe, start over.

Rebellions are good candidates for future improvements, but only during the development of the island. Once the goal is reached, the economy would be stable and run smoothly without the player intervention, in case the player likes the Villa and decides to keep the mod to use the Villa on a regular basis as a home.

Once this first version is stable, I plan to have subsequent, improved versions, but I have no idea in which direction we may end up going.

Future versions may include alternative ways of administration, like running the island as a slave pit, counting on military forces (as opposed to satisfaction) to keep the population in. Rebellions would fit nicely in this scenario.

Future versions may also include alternative goals. One of the goals that have been suggested is turning the island into a successful tourist paradise.


Pirates will raid the city and the players must be prepared by increasing the number of guards and improving their level as the city grows. I suppose that if you build some palisades or walls around the city, some kind of siege could happen. But no siege battles planned. I will add the idea to the wish list, thou.


One thing that crossed my mind along the way is to have alternative maps, so you can play the game several times with different evolutions.


It will be on http://thewormhole.nfshost.com/forum/index.php.


As I said, at some point the mod will be 'finished' and will require no additional intervention from the player, if he decides to keep the mod active.

But during the 'development game', I am also not sure how it will go.
The player will be able to leave the island after a few days.
I am not sure if I want to keep scripts running while the player is not in the island (therefore, not playing the mod).
One simple solution is to keep the island frozen while you are away.
I will try to develop some simple form of auto-run, but I have not reached that point yet

If you can figure out how to implement some sort of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMdbCvJPhyk, perhaps by enquiring Phitt, this will be massive!

Well as for mass invasion, have you checked the Daedra Invasion thread and the (abandonned) WIP Zombie mod?

The Enhanced Daedric Invasion mod should give you some inside in how you could plan an invasion by a 3rd party (pirates / rebels). Do ask the modder for permission if you plan to use it though
One problem with big invasions with lots of NPC's is the amount of npcs the Oblivion engine can maintain.
I believe the modder of the zombie mod got +- 25 zombies on the screen at a time and kept Oblivion from crashing.
If you plan on adding an invasion, i would say to lead a few warparty's instead. Just a little group of 5-7 stronger mobs might do the trick if they are tweaked right (not being over-/underpowered for example).
(will add in a link to the zombie mod)

Yes! Phitt's cannon is the best projectile solution I've seen so far. Unfortunately, according to his thread, the projectile disappears at cell boundary in exteriors. The video was recorded in an interior cell.
Anyway, I always wanted to write a cannonball-like projectile script for my never released set of flying NPCs, so this is a possibility for a future rainy night. I mean, an eventual, quick projectile battle with a pirate ship. Not a full siege campaign.



No massive invasion planned either.
As I see it, the main function of the pirate/bandit raids is to keep the player on her toes, so she does not neglect to invest some of the resources on military (or the pirates will destroy and sack , causing the city development to go back a couple of notches).
I plan small parties of pirates/bandits raiding the city, primarily during the first half of the development. Later on (so it does not get boring), the player will build some sort of automatic defense structures, like towers or warships that will take care of the raiders.
But I think it would be fun to have a group of stubborn, unlucky pirates that are always defeated, like in the Asterix stories.
Massive invasion and large battles would make sense if there were a state of war with a rival island/community. It has been suggested, but I think it would be a whole new mod all by itself.

of course if the development game last long ok but taking one or 2 day then rebelions should be in and after finishing the mod but you deside.to be honest you want after the half game automatic defences.that should be ok but it should be optional because some would like to play the battles.also instead of having one team of large number of men you should have 2 teams or three with the same number but when the one team dies then the other comes or something like this

We must keep in sight that the major objective of this mod is to present the challenge of managing the available resources to build a new community from scratch.

My initial idea was to have NO violence at all, but that would not be realistic, so there will be some wildlife to clear in order to settle a village away from the main city and to keep the roads safe.
I also got attracted to the pirate raid idea, as a complementary reason to build up the military power.

But, whatever fights you will have to fight to play this mod, don't expect anything epic, or even special. They will be your normal fights you find elsewhere and will be kept to the minimum necessary to keep realism. No reason to keep fighting them over and over again.

I also think it is realistic that after the player 'civilizes' an area and is strong enough, wildlife will keep clear and bandits will give up after a number of defeats.

yes but isnt going to be boring to have a mod without battles.whats the reasom then to build military infastracture