They are evil from the perspective of those being in a lesser state of power. They are considered evil because those who feel threatened by them label them as such.

Maybe not the empire in their current state. There could be a defeat of the Thalmor by the combined forces of Tamriel which lead to a new Empire.

Oh, I don't know. Why do people hate a nation controlled by people believing in the superiority of a master race, regularly purges away 'undesirables', and seeks to make the entire world their own, one way or another? Gee, I've never heard of ANOTHER group of people like that. /sarcasm

The Thalmor are a fascist dictatorship. If they can't control you, they hate you (see: they hate the Psijic Order, as the Psijics refuse to be controlled and the Thalmor fears them). They annexed Valenwood, and 'cleanse' the population. They stomp on religions they don't agree with.

I'd like to see the Thalmor get pushed back eventually, and as a result the Empire collapses and each province becomes their own independent nation, possibly with some of them expanding their borders a bit.

Except we know that that's not going to happen. Yeah they kill of political dissenters, but they're a growing empire trying to keep up their momentum. The fact that the game takes place in a province that fears the Thalmor probably doesn't help much either. If we were playing a game that took place before the empire united all of Tamriel and got to witness firsthand the emperors magical golem mowing down the resistance then people would probably think the same about the empire.

In Ulfric's dossier from the Thalmor embassy, the Thalmor hints at wanting a Stormcloak victory so that Skyrim is easier to conquer with the Empire out of the way.

You mean Redguard?
Admittedly Anumidium didn't make an appearance but an Imperial Dragon did.

Still if Bethesda is going with Kirkbride's vision of the Thalmor they do have less than saccharine intentions when it comes to Humanity.

Yeah. I'm playing my Dunmer with the intention of helping the cloaks though I kind of figured that a cloak victory would be beneficial to the Thalmor before I even got to that point. Even if the Thalmor don't ever reach a point where they can conquer Tamriel, a weakened empire would be good for the Dunmer in the end once the Argonians have left since they can be autonomous and align themselves with an empire of elves.


Yeah, but I don't think the Thalmor would end up conquering everything since(if their theory is correct then the series would end. Though from what I'm getting from the game is that they kill of political dissenters and to achieve their goal they would have to conquer all of Nurn. I'm also left wondering why they didn't do it during the first empire.Instead they thought of themselves as being superior to men in the heart of the empire and we know that a lot of themselves had to have not thought like that since Bosmers were born from the relationships between man and altmer.

Either way I hope the Thalmor stick around for a while even if it means they're in just two provinces. I also hope that canonically the cloaks win and leave the empire. I see the empire as being similiar to Rome, it would be interesting to see Skyrim break off and become it's own faction like the Byzantines over a religious conflict.

You do realize that the Thalmor hate the Dunmer and would rather kill them than even be on the same continent with them right? that and the Dunmer left Summerset Isles because of Thalmor persecution.

The Thalmor even hate and kill other Altmer if they don't follow their beliefs and ideas. Not only is this mentioned in "A Rising Threat", but all the Thalmor that I have met in the game so far hate me and I am playing an Altmer.

I was under the impression that the dossier outright stated that the Thalmor did not want either side to win, instead opting for a prolonged conflict to weaken both sides.

I'm pretty sure you're wrong. I haven't read much about Thalmor and Dunmer relations in game, but I'm pretty sure that the first dominion after Veloth led the Chimer out of the summerset isles.

Indeed, I mispoke about it being the Thalmor, it was the Altmer people in general. That I am not wrong about.

Yeah, it was *long* after. To our knowledge the Thalmor first arose sometime around the start of Tiber's Empire.
But the Velothi Exodus *was* inspired by dissent against the same ideology that would eventually give birth to the Thalmor.

I think Aldmer from which the Altmer are likely descended. I need to recheck that to make sure I have the timeline correct.


I was always under the impression that the exodus was largely inspired for religious reasons when chimer who eventually became Dunmer began worshiping Daedra. It was simply a change in culture and they wanted their own homeland so they could do just that. I've never read anything about violence breaking out over it or there being an ideology and agenda to become immortal.

It wouldn't be the first time someone sided with a far-away enemy to harm a nearby rival. Not that it's a good idea from the traditional Dunmer perspective, unless they know something nobody else knows.


That probably just comes from the Beth-assumed stance that you'll hate the Thalmor. If you do a quest for them, they'll respond as positively as any other person you've aided. However, it is totally true that they hate political dissidents.


It was a wile before Tiber's time, but yes, way after the Velothi exodus. 2E 830 according to TIL
But the philosophy they were rebelling against was as much the root of, say, the Cyrodiilic Empire as it was of the Thalmor. They just felt that maybe it made more sense to worship the gods that didn't get killed. Where their opposition to the Thalmor really should come from is Vivec, and his teachings about the nature of the mundus.

This is a good topic. I've always liked the elves in the elder scrolls universe since they're pretty unique and each have different attributes that make them special. Their history is even more interesting compared to men. I hope the Dominion is here to stay and maybe have the next game take place in the Sumerset Isles since that's where people thought the 5th game was going to take place. It would make much more sense now to see it from the Thalmor perspective since Betheseda IS setting us up to hate them which could end up changing many peoples opinions about them.

I hated them long before Skyrim. The Beautiful were so much more interesting and felt real compared to the Thalmor. I mean, if I wanted racial elitest hate mongers id load up Morrowind and go visit Sadrith Mora.

I think the main reason so many see the Thalmor as the "bad guys" isn't just because they are frequently arrogant or because they reformed the Aldmeri Dominion. I for one wouldn't have a problem with several separate empires on Tamriel, and a first, the idea that the Altmer and Bosmer made an alliance to form a new Dominion was something I was happy with.

The beef many people have against them is the fact that they don't just have imperial ambitions to conquer territory just for the sake of having more territory. Their ultimate goal with the wars and trying to break down the empire, is to wipe out all mankind. They believe if they stop the worship of Talos, get rid of all men, and use the power of Akatosh (I believe) to make sure the idea of men can never be, then everything will be as everything was before the world was even created.

They are basically trying to destroy the world in a sense, by attempting to make sure the world never exists in the first place.

They themselves believe what they are doing is noble, however, I'm willing to bet a lot, if not ALL the other races in Tamriel don't want the world to have never existed.

It's actually almost an even split (when talking about religiously learned individuals). Ragada, Altmer, Bosmer, and Ka'Po'Tun want the world undone. Dunmer, Cyrodiils, Nords, Bretons and Tsaesci want to keep the world around. The other races don't have clear attitudes either way.

The real reason why most people don't like the Thalmor is because they're doing stuff that is plainly and totally horrible in real life, and even in TES is unnecessarily evil. They're committing ethnic, religious, and political purges (aka genocide) right now (as opposed to men who committed genocide in the past). People don't like genocide.

Have you read the series of books The Rising Threat by Lathenil of Sunhold? He was an Altmer who fled Summerset Ilse to get away from the Thalmor. He states in his books that the Thalmor, who were a minor political power then, rose on a wave of political support by falsely taking credit for ending the Olivion Crisis. Then they started to kill/exile any Altmer dissidents who didn't agree with them. Lathenil states that they stated "progroms" in an attempt to purge large numbers of people who didn't agree with or were against them, using the excuse of getting rid of those with "mixed blood".

When the Thalmor had enough power, they rose up and killed the royal families, and the kings and queens that had ruled over the Almeri people for thousands of years, in order to become the ruling faction.

Their "purges" have moved to the mainland as well, as during one quest, you meet a Bosmer who's family was wiped out by the Thalmor in Valenwood

Lathenil of Sunhold also believed that the Thalmor initiated the conquest of southern Morrowind by the Argonians through persuasion. This seems to indicate that a strong, united Morrowind would be a threat the Thalmor, not an assest.

According to Lathenil, First Chancellor Ocato was assassinated by the Thalmor, and the post-script to the book by another auther indicates that Lathenil himself also met a violent end. Possiblly also assassinated by the Thalmor


This shows at least that not even every Altmer is comepletely on board with what the Thalmor are doing, although I suppose as time goes on and more an more "programs" are initiated, the number of Altmer who will openly dissent will steadily decrease.

Fair enough I suppose. Though like someone said, people don't like them because of their means though for a lot of people playing who don't care about the lore they might just know that they're arrogant and do purge political dissenters. I personally like in them(as I play a dunmer) because they're the only powerful elven power that exists and the alternative is have Morrowind ruled by the empire again if the Thalmor were to dissapear.

Also as a side: If the Thalmor wanted to achieve their goal they would technically have to conquer all of Nurn men don't just exist on Tamriel.




Interesting. I'll have to read that when I get up. The Thalmor is really only a political faction and remind me a lot of Dagoth Ur so there is potential for the Thalmor to be usurped if the dissenters organize themselves in the Isles and Valenwood.

I feel the same way. I love the elven races, and the idea of an Aldmeri Dominion being run by the Altmer is something I can really get into. On the other hand, the religious fanatacism, and how the Thalmor are treating their own people, never mind other races, is just something I don't like.

It's possible to like the elves, to like Altmeri, maybe even the idea of the Aldmeri Dominion, but yet still hate the Thalmor. As you said, it is really just one political faction, one that happens to be in power now.

My Arguments:

1) Talos is in fact a God. It has been proven specifically in the quest for the Armor of Tiber Septim in the Oblivion Main Quest. Martin needed a divine artifact, a manifestation of the Gods in physical form, which the Armor was.

With that established, it should be obvious what power the Gods have at their disposal. It was Stendarr, Mara, and Akatosh that intervened in the Warp of the Illiac Bay incident. The Elder Scrolls themselves are powerful divine fragments of creation that drive untrained mortals mad. So I doubt Talos will allow a rag tag group of supremecist pointy ears to destroy him.

2) While the Thalmor did infact gain favorable terms from the White-Gold Concordat, they lost a HUGE number of soldiers in the last battle of the Great War, in the retaking of the Imperial City. They are just as battered and weak as the Empire is at the moment, whom is regathering strength