Don't drop the sload soap

His spear is Muatra, which is his masculinity manifest. It's basically his dong, and can transform. In the Sermons, it was a spear, a crown of suns (if I remember right), and even a dwarf (NOT a Dwemer, note the capitalization).

smooooooooooth

And in the trial he put Muatra up Azurah's nose. Then vanished.

And I wonder, if he has that as his masculinity manifest, how does he manifest his femininity?

I thought he stuck it down her throat? And he did say he was guilty, well when he was Vivec the mortal. Vivec the god isn't guilty of slaying Nerevar, because Vivec the god didn't come to fruition yet. However, I think it's just him trying to cover his ass up. He's clearly guilty of the crime, and refuses to do the time. But Azura did deserve some uh...yeah I don't think I'm going there today.

And how does he manifest his femininity? Ask Molag Bal, he knows this personally

EDIT: Yep, he shoves it down her pie hole

yeah, but the nose would've been soooooo much cooler.

And I agree, he's covering his ass up with half-truths, even IF (and it's a big if) the water mask actually does force him to telol truth, how much of the truth must he tell?

Agreed. It's one thing to be able to only say the truth. It's another of how much it allows you you to withhold the truth, because that's not lying that's just not saying everything.

That's not even the biggest issue. Now, even if you ignore all the big esoteric and wierd things, Vivec was still in some form a god, and even without the heart would have been for some time (although he acknowledges that he has had his immortality removed and would someday die in his dialogue in-game, if i recall correctly). So already, even if a mortal wore it as a test and then found that he or she was incapapble of lying, how does that confirm a god, even a dying one, is subject to the same thing?

And when you throw CHIM, the ability to decide what is real or not at will, into the mix, then how do we know that Vivec didn't decide that the water-mask dosen't compel truth for those moments? Really, there is no way of saying for certain anything about Vivec except for what we already knew and he acknowledged: that in the bare minimum his mortal incarnation, wether or not that is truly different from the god-form, murdered nerevar. The rest is up to us to puzzle out.

The water face bit seems extremely pedantic...

What do you mean?

this bit seems extremely and unnecesarily pedantic and nit-picky to me.

Okay, I think I understand you.

Anyways, there wasn't much of a reason for Vivec to lie about the murder of Nerevar by the time of the trial. The Tribunal temple had basically dissolved so he wouldn't have been worried about political reprocussions, plus, I doubt he was worried that he might be punished for his crimes (the trial itself should make that clear).

Yes, as I've understood it he only went along with the Trial as an opportunity to humiliate Azura for having plotted against the Tribunal and bringing about their downfall; he knew he would escape to Aetherius after doing so.

If anything he was bragging about it.

Yes, I killed Nerevar. And I didn't. Eat Muatra.

And that is why Vivec definitely wasn't taken out by the Daedra horde. Vivec the God, whether you accept the Trial or not, had superceded his fellow Tribunes in the achievement of CHIM. As such, the destruction of Lorkhan's Heart did not stop the divinity of Vivec. The Daedra wouldn't stand a chance. Throw in some muatra and it turns from a battle of the gods into a cheap 70's science fiction pormo.

-Hexon

I was pretty sure they were reffering to Vivec the person, not Vivec the city. Although I have no Idea how the daedra could take Vivec the God without taking the entire city of Vivec also...

I hope Vivec reappears in some future game so we can kill him, again for some of us, for sure with no doubts. I really don't like him.

He'd just hit reset and destroy you. Don't delude yourself into thinking he can be undone at this point. It would be embarassing...like when Ozymandias thought he had destroyed Dr. Manhattan. "I'm very disappointed in you."

Indeed. Perhaps if we ever get Bethesda to push for that M or AO rating, we can even get him to bring along Muatra.

Well, nobody in Nirn would even think they could beat Vehk. That's probably what holds back the Landfall. Only we do, becuase we all know what CHIM is, in that strange MKish way.

the Rumors I recall in oblivion was Vivec was dragged away through the gates of Oblivion correct me if Im wrong.

Sotha Sil was the most knowledgable of the Tribunal and Almalexia by Vivecs words could have killed him (vivec) when concerning the Deadra would it not make sense for them to Kidnappe Vivec because he poses as a false god? what better way to end the Dunmeri faith in the Tribunal as to take away a -god- against his will (or not).

My -Speculation- is Sotha Sils dealings with the Deadra Eons past has something to do with Vivec being Kidnapped.

if they city of Vivec were removed they would have been more elaborate about it. they made it Clear Ald-ruhn was destroyed they may have done the same if the same where true to the City of Vivec.

Well, one thing we haven't considered though is this, that let's say the trial is bunk. That will be a big hurdle for a lot of you, but this is hypothetical. Then let's say that Vivec vanished. Either due to his own design or because the nerevarine avenged his own death. Remember that the Tribunal rarely went out among the people anymore, so for the years between Morrowind and Oblivion, maybe nobody noticed his being missing. Then when Oblivion Gates open all over the place, someone forces his way in to beg for aid, but the room is empty. Add to that the increasing prevalence of Daedra Worship in the Temple since Morrowind and that would lead to the confusion of Vivec being taken, with or against his will, by Daedra.

^ nice outcome

Yeah, so just reset it and make the trial happen.

I'm pretty sure Vehk was looking forward to giving Azura her gobstopper.

Yes, Vivec the city. He didn't go into anywhere with the neravarine. If you're refering to the rumour that the neravarine went to Akavir, Vivec did not go with him.