Okay, first things first, I'm brand new to the forums, and I want to say Hello to all. Back to topic, I was talking to my friend (he introduced me to Fallout, and is also a huge Fallout fan) and I decided to start the discussion on Fallout 3. I quickly decided besides naming the good parts of the game and wasting an almost endless amount of time I decided naming the things I disliked about the game. I found myself very confused about what is referred to as "The Great War" I asked myself, "What is The Great War?" fortunately I was in deep thought on this subject. So I understand that the US and China were in this "Great War" but why exactly did it happen.? Why do the weapons, most attire, hairstyles, etc. seem to have 40's look, yet the US was bombed 2077 according to some Holotapes I found in Little Lamplight... Is Fallout it's own universe? By 2077, in our time, don't you think the US would have had enough intelligence to have technology to see nuclear war heads some where in China? After WWII the US said they should never have to use nuclear weapons again why use them again? Also the reason why the UN was made was so another war like this wouldn't happen. What do aliens have to do with the Fallout storyline?
The main question is why where these questions not answered in Fallout 3? If they were, why not in the main storyline?
So I disliked be confused about Fallout 3, will New Vegas clear things up?
Someone help me please!

EDIT: *NEW QUESTIONS* Why did the story of Fallout 3 deiced to take place 200+ years after The Great War? What are the other countries doing?

Ok, welcome and have a fishy stick (im too lazy to link)
Well, let me take a quote from the Handbook
"Imagine if the world into 2 seperate universes, you have our universe, and then another based in the 60s where technology increased at a much more impressive rate.
So, that basically answers most of that. The Great War refers to none other than World War III, being that WWII and WWI already happened, this is basically what it is.
Many many parts of fallout 3 have holes, that is why it is not so much of an rpg, as it is a first person shooter.

Consider this, right now in our universe in 2010, we already have nuclear warheads, yet in 2077 in the other universe where technology had been advanced much faster, why is it that we were still using warheads? Yes, it is completely right that we should have known, and this almost positively wouldnt have happened in that scenario. A war may have happened but, it seems to me the US seemed pretty defenseless..

About the other countries.. In the 2077 scenario it seems to me everyone has picked sides. And the China against US caused a large chain reaction of alliances to kick in that made everyone involved in the nuclear warfare.

This also happened in World War 1.
Serbia and Austria Hungary went to war
Russia came in to help Serbia and attacked Austria Hungary
Germany went to help AH, and attacked Russia, French went to defend Russia and attacked Germany, Italy in defence of Germany attack France, Great Britain came to help France, Great Britain was attacked, Japan in an alliance with Great Britain got involved..

See how that works? Its just a chain reaction of alliances connecting everyone to the war, and in this case everyone bombed eachother with unstoppable nukes and destroyed the world (supposedly, there is no viable proof that any other country was involved, but it is extremely likely that there was)
That or no one came to help because of fear of radiation.

And since then people have been trying to rebuild society as it once was, and 200 years later it is still not even an inch toward the 200ft climb to what was society.
There might be some settlements and organization, but there are maybe 20 people in every town.
I live in a relatively small town of Kenosha, that has well over 150 thousand people, yet in the DC area of fallout 3, I couldnt name over 200. Even with all the nameless npc and raiders. There may not even be 500.

So, if all countries are like this. What on earth would give them the urge to spend their little resources saving another country? when the smart thing to do was to rebuild as much as you can. Basically, its like the age of Discovery right now, everyone is building up as much as they can to try to be the dominant one.
Why did it take place 200 years after the great war...

Well, this isnt call of duty so how could it be during the war. And if not 200 years then what? In every scenario they could easily remake the same setting. unless it was less than 50 years.

First I want to say thank you for taking your time to clear up a lot of what I asked, but I'm still very confused on why wasn't The Great War not explained as much as it should have? If any, how much did the Aliens have to do with The Great War?

Yes Fallout has its own universe. Its timeline differs a lot from our real world with differences beginning to emerge after the end of world war 2.
For instance it seems that the microchip was never invented and technological and societal progress happened a lot slower and in different ways than in our world.

Check out the Fallout timeline on the Fallout wiki called "The Vault" : http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline

The reason why everything looks so 50-ish is because the Fallout 2077 was basically a representation of what people in the 50ths imagined the year 2077 to be like. Imagine that everything developed exactly as they predicted it back then. Atomic power everywhere (it was THE holy grail in the 50s and people believed it would be the solution to almost every problem), robots making our lives easier , thinking super computers... evil communism still the biggest threat in the world but like everyone who tries to predict the future , people in the 50ths could not foresee how culture, style and music would change.

Thats why their picture of the future is a world that still looks like the 1950's just mixed with the fantastic future technologies the scientists promised would arrive soon.

Very interesting post, and thanks for the link. Very long timeline, haha.

Nothing at all. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. ^_^

Ignore the Aliens thing...Mothership was all just a funky trip from paint fumes...and heres the timeline: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline. Its extensive too. The Fallout Universe and Ours took our own differing paths at around 1950, with our universe having a series of cultural revolutions and other factors that generally made the American (And other nations) government move to the left or center of the political spectrum. In the FO Universe, this never happened so the Red Scare, Cold War, and highly aggressive nationalistic behavior of western governments stayed throughout history. Also, play Fo1 and Fo2 because they give far more lore-based info then FO3.

Edit: Just realized I got ninja'd by Celeon....

Wow, I was stoked to see what Aliens were doing in the game. There better be something in New Vegas, but I doubt it...

Fallout 1 and 2 may have a great storyline packed with interesting info, but I can't stand the gameplay. I'm close minded like that... I've been reading up on the Fallout wiki for a few months just never took my time to read the whole time line since it was in the Fallout Bible already, but I do like the wiki one more since there is more info and links. Thanks for the replys guys, but I think I got all the info I can get as of right now.

Yeah the aliens are just a homage to the great american sci-fi movies of the late 50's.
They appear as a sort of a semi-embedded easteregg throughout the three main Fallout games.

But they are also a integral part of the 1950's in the USA. The increasing sightings of UFO's and the media attention created this huge wave of sci-fi horror movies involving aliens like "The invasion of the body snatchers" (1956 A brilliant classic) , Invaders from Mars (1953) or "The Blob" (1958).

These movies all represent the paranoic fear of communism that went through the USA in that decade. Sci-fi always tends to process the current fears , worries and hopes in the world. In the 50's the aliens were all invaders, dangerous with sinister plans to undermine our freedom , replacing us bit by bit with their own or trying to make us their servants. So Aliens = communists

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRVfGMjdGh8 show this brilliantly.
Is he talking about aliens or communists ? You know, "They are already here, among us. Infiltrating us, Look like us and talk like us but they are DIFFERENT and have dark plans for you and me.

"The Blob" was even really planned as anti-communists propaganda in entertainment disguise. The Blob itself was of course an substitute for the ever growing, all devouring communism that is about to slowly eat the USA. :clap:

Rediculous idea yes, but nonetheless the true idea behind that movie. The writers were some nutjobs from some ultra right religious group. Problem was that almost no one ever got this subliminal message and the movie just became classic popcorn entertainment instead.

If you look at E.T , released during the 1980's and movies like Avatar in our days , its becomes clearer how sci-fi always adapted to the current mood or worries of people all around the world. It reflects what troubles the world the most at the moment and what we would like to do about it. (Avatar processes Militarism, anger about corporate imperialism, worrying about the destruction of the environment , pushing around and exploitation of weaker nations, a percieved growing lack of justice, worries about war and violence)

Just like "Mad Max" processed the fear of the oil reservers running out and the complete world wide breakdown and wars that might follow. This was the result of the big http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_oil_crisis of 1973 which hit Australia pretty hard.

Of all movies, the Mad Max trilogy was the biggest source of inspiration for the Fallout games.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IW-RmVY2OkA and it was of course the inspiration for the game intros

Sorry now i got carried away a little. Im a huge sci.fi fan


So the aliens while not being completely relevant to the story or the Fallout Universe belong firmly to it.

The US really should have seen th Chinese attack coming. Some sort of nuclear driven aircraft could have stayed for weeks at a time over Chinse airspace, spying on military installations. They could then take photographs, and then fly back to the US, placing the undeveloped film into canisters to be parachuted down and processed by military intelligence. Failing to use such advanced spying technology is just sloppiness really.

HAHA. I actually was really interested in what you wrote, and it makes sense why they added aliens to the game, thanks.

You have to remember that the World was in a terrible state by the time of the Great War, there was immense rioting and revolutions tearing apart America. Tensions between political leaders were making the government inefficient. The United States could've possibly not had the resources to put its spy agencies and equipment into action.

To answer your next question, the reason why they left the great war so unexplained was because most people didnt know too much about it anyways, and anyone that could have would have died or have been turned into a ghoul (anyone know who I am talking about?)

Take for example the movie Book of Eli, this is also based after a wwIII
The story everyone was told was that a hole ripped in the sky and the sun came down and burned everything up. This is 30 years after the war, and only the older people that survived knew what really happened.

So for anyone to know anything about what really happened in the WWIII in fallout 3 is pretty unimaginable. There are no historical texts, because everything was destroyed, there was nothing to even explain the horrible things in the world that was earth.

Enter: The Enclave.

Prefrece: It sometimes helps to think of three "enclaves" - First and formost we have the Enclave Organisation from the games that you've interacted with that considers itself the continuing US government. We have the Enclave Facility (the Oil Rig) from which its speculated that the enclave gets it's name, and the "Enclave Conspiracy" - The Caterpillar to the Enclave organisation you know and love.

As the 21st Century continued, folk at the upper echelons of power in the US grew increasingly concerned about the level of resorce reduction, and considered a heavy, nuclear war to not just be a "possibility" but an eventual certanty. Some of these folk banded together and started making plans to ensure their own, and their families survival after the holocaust to come.

Their projections predicted that the Earth would be a complete write-off after such an event, and devised a 2 stage plan - A shelter to ride out the worst of the war, and then a "generational" starship to take their decendants to a new home. A generational starship is a massive undertaking and would be wrought with possible problems brought on by the lack of a "natural" environment and cramped conditions. Seeing an opportunity to get real data on the dangers faced and provide a safety blanket for those not important enough to be saved by the main plan, "Project Safehouse" (AKA the vaults) was devised. I'm guessing giving the colossal costs of the vaults (I've calculated a guess at the "Current World" costs in another thread somewhere, but it really is massive, if you took the Current DOD budget and spent it all on vaults instead of, well, the entire military of the US, you could afford 5 vaults at V13's budget) this was used to funnel cash to the Enclave's other projects (Vault Tec and Posidon Oil was controlled by them).

The Enclave expected the launch, and were ready. Everyone "Worth Saving" survived in the Enclave facility, only those that "werent" died.

I do not believe any country would sacrifie the entire country savor a few thousand. And if this was all devised the government, why is it that the Enclave did not provide themselves with a geck and use it with great haste? Why would they let everything be the way it was for 200 years, when in just 1 they could have used their unmatched strength to rebuild the world to livability? Its a silly prospect on Americas part IF at all true.

Many people believe that the Enclave is one of the weaker elements of the Fallout Universe. But the reason why they did not want to just reconquer the world and use a GECK, to my understanding, was that they wanted a purely "American" world, which would be far easier to achieve on a unpopulated planet, And the Government didn't truly ''Sacrifice the entire country to save a few", many in the government did not even know about the Enclave since it was more of a shadow government, but the Enclave felt that for America to survive then the Enclave would have to protect the strongest, smartest, and wealthiest.

Edit to answer second part: For 200 years they were trying to finish the Vault-Experiment and the Space Ship, they had no interest in the recolonization of Earth. Also note: The Enclave were, arguably, out of their bloody bloody bloody minds.

First of all, contrary to the giant plothole that is Fallout 3, the GECK isn't a magical device. It's just a kit of tools, seeds and the like that allows you to create a basic living environment in a post-nuclear landscape. It doesn't magically turn dead soil into anything livable. Second, as I've come to understand it, the GECK was a very late invention - the Enclave conspiracy was years, perhaps decades, in the making. If you've planned for the destruction of the planet and started building a massive spaceship, it's a bit late to reevaluate the situation.

They didn't want any half-measures or to cut out a new nation in a harsh landscape. They wanted to bail out and protect the american way.

Edit: And they didn't wait 200 years. Afaik, they started shortly after the initial radiation had settled. The whole Fallout 3 thing was just what they ended up falling back on. I'm not even sure how they ended up on the East Coast. But odds are that they're still alive and well somewhere. It's unlikely they'll still try to pull of their generational spaceship idea, though, which may actually have made them even more dangerous, seeing as they now have to purify all of America.

And if it wasn't for the fact that they are all completely nuts, odds are that I'd help them if I could.

The *Country* didn't sacrrifce anything for the enclave as the country didn't know about it... A few powerful people directed resources as they saw fit, its called "corruption".

In any case, the entire vault project would have saved less than 125,000 at a cost 24x the annual military budget for the US, to take the stance that you have, you've undermined the plot for all 3 core fallout games.

The Enclave has at least one GECK... Or had one at least. I kinda borrowed it just before the enclave facility went boom. They didn't use it because the mutant problem had to be "Resolved" before their next plan (be it the space plan, or a change to recolonise the US). They were quite happy sitting tight until their modified FEV killed everyone.

As for Fallout 1, as Mr Avalone pointed out, during FO1's development the Enclave didn't exist, as such any questions about why they didn't factor in FO1 have a rather boring answer - However one possible answer if you need to stretch for one is that they were still collecting data from the Vault Behavioral project. Monitoring their experiements so they could work out the best way to recolonise.

If anything, the Enclave (or at least its leaders in FO2) are the masters of the "long game" - they're born and bread by some of the best.

The GECK in Fallout 3 should be treated as atypical and unique. It's a one of a kind. The Real deal to all those survival kits that the other GECK were.


Eden probably contacted them after the events of Fallout 2. Eden's description of himself and Raven Rock would suggest that the facility was part of the same communications network as the Enclave oil rig, and he would have been in a good position to provide shelter and leadership to a decapitated and homeless Enclave.