Just wondering what you folks think the fate of the Legion will be, following New Vegas. While it is of course true that there are multiple endings, eventually Bethesda's games might come close to the south-west once again, and have to explain the aftermath of New Vegas. Given that three of the endings involved the utter defeat of the Legion and Caesar's death, it would seem the most logical conclusion would be that the Legion fell apart following their leader's death and defeat at Hoover Dam. But how do you think the Legion will be handled in a game set fifty or one hundred years later? Of course, this is making a lot of assumptions on the actions of the player-character, but the most likely scenario, based on the amount of endings is:

Legion defeated.

Caesar dead (no Courier to heal his tumor)

Vulpes Inculta and the Frumentarii run out of the Mojave

Legate Lanius dead (or else retreating)

Personally, I'm thinking a rivalry between Vulpes Inculta and a wounded/humiliated Legate Lanius (assuming he survived whatever punishment you dealt towards him). Legate Lanius tries to dissolve the Frumentarii, feeling they were dishonorable and unnecessary (given their failure to hand over New Vegas). The disparate tribes of the Legion remain Legionaries for fear of Lanius's wrath. Vulpes Inculta, realizing that a weakened Lanius will not be able to hold the Legion together, begins plotting against him. The Pax Romana surrounding Flagstaff, Phoenix, and Denver begins to break apart as more legionaries begin to shun the ways of the Legion, return to their homes, or carve out independent feifdoms. Eventually, Vulpes moves against Lanius with a coalition of legionaries loyal to him, and Lanius is attacked in his tent. The wounded Legate manages to survive the assassination attempt and throttles Vulpes to death, the last remnant of Caesar's most-loyal, before succumbing himself, leaving the Legion in disarray. The once proud Caesar's Legion dissolves into anarchy as larger tribes invade from the East without a solid force to fight them off.

Honestly, I'd enjoy a game set within the Four States Commonwealth, in Legion territory, in which the player character experiences the decline and fall of the Legion after Caesar's death as a result of his brain tumor. Perhaps a Follower of the Apocalypse has snuck into Legion territory and realizes that the Legion is the key to peace and civilization in the Arid Zone, Novo Mexico, Colored Mountains, and Oo-Tah -- it just needs to be reformed by a legend as great as Caesar. Multiple 'Emperors' and 'Big Chiefs' and 'Bosses' rise around the territory of the Legion, and the anarchy grows between its cities.

The player character becomes a Centurion in his area's Legion, while various other parts of the Commonwealth become dominated by rival factions all calling themselves 'Caesar's Legion,' headed by men claiming to be the heir to Caesar's legacy. At the town of Anthem, Arizona, the player character wins a great victory, but falls in battle around the ancient memorial. The Follower of the Apocalypse comes to his rescue, either finding the player's great nobility the perfect character for a leader, or thinking the player's great savagery is necessary to unite the commonwealth (depending on the player's actions). The player character wakes at just the right moment to see the light shine through Anthem's memorial, illuminating the Great Seal of the United States with sunlight, and the Follower, taking a hint from another famous Roman and posing as a priest of Mars, says 'in hoc signo vinces' or "By this sign, you will conquer." Bestowing upon the player the title of Constantine, he encourages him to save the Legion and its many inhabitants, taking the Eagle as his standard, differentiating himself from the many Bulls fighting over Caesar's laurels.

What do y'all think is the best way to solve the Legion issue? And do you have any fun stories of your own?

Ohhhhh mmmmmyyyyyyyyy gooooodddd................ this is awesome.

My little theory

Joshua Graham is not Dead, I believe He would be forced to bring stability to the remnants of the Legion. Atonement for past Sins is a concept most Judeo-Christian based Religions share. Joshua Graham would be doing Gods Work by acting to create a stable Government out of the former Legion held Territories.

The effects of a New Rome could lead to the Great Khans turning to the Followers of the Apocolypse to create Thier Empire in the North. Being a Drug dealing Group of Raiders is not a viable option if the People You are trying to sell Drugs to and Raid believe in thorough and quick Extermination as a means of solving the problems Your Faction created.

Summary of what I think will happen:

Lanius returns back home, crowns himself the new Caesar and take charge of the Legion again though parts of it will splinter off.

Lanius has to learn how to rule a nation like a leader instead of a war-chief, and needs time to adjust to his new role.

Dirtymutant, the part about towns rebelling doesn't make any sense to me. Prior to the Legion's arrival towns were pestered with raiders and problems. Legion comes in, takes care of the raiders and integrates or genocides the tribals causing troubles and then allow towns to continue working just as they did before. The Legion made the area safer for them and people are living generally peaceful lives in there. It makes no sense for the towns to suddenly want to have complete and utter chaos again. They've lived in fear and anarchy for long enough as it is and if it wasn't for the Legion it would have continued that way. I doubt they are going to want to return to chaos. Residents, so long as they don't get in the way of the Legion and perform whatever 'rare' request they may have have peaceful lives in the lands of the Legion and are content, maybe even happy, with the Legion civilizing their corner of the wasteland.

And Legionnaires defecting because they want their tribal heritage back? No. Most legionnaires are complete zealots to the Legion's culture and religion and are willing to give their lives for it and Caesar. They aren't going to defect just cause Caesar 'supposedly died' (I say supposedly because Lanius might go all "I'm a incarnation of Caesar" and trick them into believing that Caesar simply resurrected like a phoenix). In FNV if Caesar is killed the legionnaires have even more determination to take the dam in honor of their dead leader. Killing Caesar only made them 'more' determined to carry out his will. They aren't going to mass defect just because. Don't get me wrong, some of them 'are' going to want to defect but the amount of people defecting are nothing in comparison to the amount of people so indoctrinated into the culture that they'd slit their own throat rather than be capture by an enemy for fear that they might torture them for information about the Legion.

While there may be some small splintering of the Legion, I don't believe it will be on the scale that you propose. Order is of of the Legions greatest strengths and, through a rigid hierachy, the greater structure would remain. Now, if my some means, the entire leadership of the Legion is destroyed...the maybe more chaos then.

As for mass legonnaires and towns rebelling, it would make even less sense. Though brutal, the Legion has brought three things for both the tribes integrated and settlements: Safety, Stability and Purpose.

Almost every quote in the game from characters says that if Caesar dies, the Legion will fall apart, because they are following him, not his ideals.

However true that may be, this is what they think and not what they know. That's part of the beauty of New Vegas.

- Caesar rules through influence and intelligence, Lanius rules through fear and brutality. Groups like the latter never last long. Lanius is also not well liked by the Legion (Caesar and Vulpes have doubts about him leading). The Legion will lose that charisma that Caesar brings to the table.

- If Lanius is leader, those "rare" requests might become demands through fear and many towns will lose that feeling of safety. Hell they might even be forced to be slaves. People would get sick of his phobiacracy and rebel from his iron-fisted rule. Caesar at least made them felt safe, Lanius will not.

- Legionnaires are zealous towards Caesar, not Lanius. They only listen to him because he will [censored] kill you if you don't obey him. He would lose their respect and they would go separate ways from him.

- Lanius doesn't like several members of the Legion (Including Vulpes). He might try to kill them, which would lead to them rebelling. Some legionnaires might find Lanius "unworthy" to be ruler of the Legion. So many would defect and form their own "real" Legion. So the "tribes" might still be claiming to be the "real" Legion, but they will basically be tribes fighting each other of the old days.

- Mr. House , Marcus and Joshua Graham think the Legion will be torn apart from infighting a year after Caesars death. Mr. House predicted the Great War before it happened so I have a lot of faith in his claim.

The thing is, without Caesar in control, the Legion has a bad future ahead of it.

Hey, the Mongols called, they want a word with you.


I'm not sure what you're basing that on. Lanius doesn't have Caesar's charisma, yes, but he is next in line for the title. Given that he understands geopolitics and understands the intricacies of warfare, it isn't a stretch to assume that he wouldn't destroy his own force in such a crude way as you describe.


They wouldn't. http://fallout.gamepedia.com/Legion#Legionaries not to think for themselves. They will follow Lanius because that's what they were taught to do.


Why would he try to kill him? Lanius doesn't like Vulpes' methods or the frumentarii, but he wouldn't hack off a limb so crucial to the Legion's survival. Without Vulpes and his frumentarii, the Legion is blind.


The same thing was said about the Soviet Union in 1917.

The Mongols ultimately failed because they were so fixated on their military leaders, and the empire split into four smaller empires that eventually dissolved for various reasons (rebellious Russians, acculturation by the Chinese, etc.). The Mongols followed one charismatic leader, Genghis (like the Legion's Caesar). Luckily, he had plenty of sons that were seen as legitimate, but when he died, the Mongol expansion immediately halted as all of the chiefs returned to elect the next Great Khan. The empire subsequently split into the Golden Horde, the Ilkhanate, the Chagatai Khante, and the Yuan Dynasty of China.

Also, if you ask Legionaries like Vulpes, they don't like Lanius. Most fear him, but they don't like him. An ex-legionaries like Joshua take his measure and don't see him as having the charisma to lead. Lanius speaks of Vulpes in the terms one would expect of a roach. He's obsessed with honor and single combat (hence how you can Good Karma him into single combat with you) and despises the Frumentarii.

All of which survived for centuries. The principalities of Rus alone were their preferred victims for centuries and even then, they did not totally fall apart and disappear into the mists of the history, but they adapted and evolved. What Genghis Khan created lasted centuries.

Mind you, I'm not advocating that the Legion will survive unchanged. If anything, I can see it being divided among the successors, forming something akin to Diocletian's tetrarchy. The Legion will not collapse overnight, however, as there's too much social inertia. Marcus and House are brilliant and insightful, but they underestimate that factor.


Yes, but he's also a competent military leader who won't cripple the Legion in the name of personal issues. Vulpes and Lanius don't like each other. They might even hate each other. But both want the best for the Legion and for that reason they won't make a move against one another, as it would only benefit the enemies of the Legion. I like this, to be honest, as it adds a layer of complexity and gives a reason for supporting the Legion. While you can plainly see personal interest overriding the common good in the NCR (such as Moore's petty excuses for exterminating local tribes or Kimball's pet project, the Mojave Campaign), in the Legion the common good overrides any personal issues the individuals may have.

Feel free to disagree, but discarding that would be making the Legion just another horrible enemy with no redeemable qualities and going by the sources we have, that wasn't the intention of the developers at all.

Apparently, Interplay planned to have the Legion as minor villains in their now-abandoned Fallout 3, and almost destroy it, but the most psychotic of the survivors would form a new Legion and be the major villains of Fallout 4.

Perhaps the Legion will win, maybe they'll be destroyed, but if Bethesda's Fallout 4 is on the west coast, we'll probably never know. Hopefully a new Obsidian Fallout game will rock along and proclaim the NCR as the winners.

personally I think the legion will fall apart no matter who wins as eventually Caesar will die (He was in his 50-60's FNV) and then the legion will fall apart, might take longer if they take Vegas but sooner or later the in-fighting will start, combine this NCR(I doubt it will all get wiped out), Khan empire, MWBOS and all the other faction fighting it the legion will crumble....

I find a Legion without Caesar unlikely to last. Even with Lanius taking his place. They would either be very disorganized or simply fall apart in time.

In an interview on Nukapedia, JE Sawyer was talking about the most popular endings player. Indy was 1st, tied at a close 2nd was NCR and House. And at dead last was the Legion. The legion isn't to popular with many players so I doubt they would have a canon victory implemented. Unless Beth/Obsidian decides to go hipster and makes the Legion win, but i don't see that happening.

Main problem with the legion is that it combines everything bad, with everything worse in the roman and Spartan cultures.

They shun civil tech, medicins, art, free thinking, educational, basic military strategy, infrastructure building, politics, bureaucracy, and Basically everything that made Rome a superpower. Demographically, The Legion is unviable as it treats women as slaves and second class citizens despite spartas heavy emphasis on breeding lots of good soldiers and mothers. In Spartan society women did sports and were educated. They were not allowed to marry untill their bodies could take childbirth, and [censored] or six with minors or early pregnancy can carry all sorts of issues with it.

Even in a best case scenario the legion is doomed.

The cannon ending I think that will happen is House's. His robots push the Legion back, but not very far because he doesn't want to expand. The Legion will have to retreat, and will disorganized until House's robots stop following. The retreat is when the majority of the causalities occur. There would be to many wounded with to severe injures to be treated by traditional medicine. Some of the recently absorbed tribes might break off at this point too.

That is when Lanius steps up. This may not be to popular with the experienced leaders, so there may be a few unit based rebellions. No large scale rebellions though, most will be to brainwashed. If tLanius gets killed quickly, then there will probably be some issues. If he lives, he probably try to imitate Caeser, to keep the populace calm. He'll have to rebuild the Legions and have to contend with other factions outside Legion borders. That will take awhile, so I don't think the Legion will be the most aggressive faction in the coming years, but it wont be weak.

I think a House or Indy ending would be the best options for canon, assuming there is a Fallout game in the future in the vicinity which needs mention of what happened in the Mojave. Both endings are fairly status quo compared to NCR and Legion victories.

I can't see Yes Man being cannon at all. Way too open ended.

Agreed. Its a Can of worms Canon and especially fanwise since a yesman ending will 1) end up as a cliche "AI" takeover, or 2) piss off most yesman afficionados, who didnt get their subjective vision fullfilled, due to lack of story framework. There needs to be some structure to make for cohesive storytelling.

This is why I liked Fallout 3's ending, with all the separate storylines within. A later Fallout game need not worry about canon because most of the lesser storylines probably wouldn't be mentioned. The Megaton-Tenpenny conflict pales in comparison to fresh water.

Bethesda have something up with obsidian, there's hope .

Yes man it's not that open. In the end, it's not that different from House. If I have to choose, I'd prefer House to be ruler of the mojave as canon, even if my favorite ending is indie.

Precisely. Even the Lone Wanderer is insignificant to that event, and will likely soon be forgotten regardless of his pivotal role.

With House, Ncr and the Legion we have a framework for which way the cookie crumbles. With a yesman ending we have the flimsiest possible idea, one that l personally believe would be next to impossible to build any good lore on. Remember that with the three main endings we know reasons, motivations and plans. With yesman we have"independence"... In Whatever subjektive shape that id defined by the individual player.