[Kelli Wolfe]

To no avail. Face it, people like to complain about things.

Very true.

[Sam Parker]

The sage does not expect that others use his criteria as their own.~Lao Tzu

And thats why there arent any Sages left. :angel:

[Haley Merkley]

He leaves the cap off the toothpaste. He thinks coffee should be weak. He thinks rice is a horrible food.

I don't know, thems are deal breakers! :laugh:

[Cash n Class]

You know people like and dislike different things but does that mean we have to line up on different sides and throw rocks at each other because my concerns are not your concerns?

Yes!

Can I complain about an aspect of the game I don't like without folks jumping on me and calling me names or being disrespectful because I don't see things their way?

No.

Is there any purpose to put others down because you don't agree with them?

Of course.

Does it make them a lesser person because they think a bit differently about something than I do?

Definitely.

I just celebrated my anniversary and I assure you I can't stand how he leaves the cap off the toothpaste. I want to explode when he starts talking about politics. He thinks coffee should be weak, I like mine strong. He thinks rice is a horrible food and I think it's awesome. So many things we see differently, yet we are able to reside in the same house, same bed for 42 years and still treat one another with respect because we understand we are not one person but two with different tastes, different habits and different opinions.

You're older than I thought you were. But it's okay, I'm sure you look half your age!

Now I am not suggesting we all get married

That sounded like a pretty decent idea though.

but I am suggesting that it really isn't that difficult to disagree and be civil and respectful about it. People complain when there is something they don't want or don't like. That is fine as long as they don't disrespect those who disagree with them or call them names or insinuate they are stupid or dumb and less of an intelligent person. Disagreeing means nothing about your IQ and nothing about being right or wrong or being young or old or new at gaming or an old gamer. It just means we disagree.

Different strokes for different folks, and so on and so on.....

I certainly agree with your sentiment. Unfortunately, I don't think a peacekeeping post is going to do anything about the debates. Discussion is perfectly healthy as long as people don't start dragging aggressive name-calling and blatant trolling into the mix. I admire your effort in attempting to moderate proactively, but reactive actions are probably the only things that will work.

[Stryke Force]

I don't know, thems are deal breakers! :laugh:

Well the coffee comes close that's for sure.

[Quick draw II]

\I've made this point before, and I'll repeat it - the source of virtually all of the conflict on this board is not the opinions expressed, but the reactions of others to those opinions. If everybody would simply post their own opinions and accept the undeniable fact that others can and will have differing ones, then all the conflict, all the antagonism and all the distractions would simply vanish.

You are CORRECT!

But if we actually followed your recommendation, it would be SO boring during the non info days. The crazy emotions really add alot to the forum.

But like I said you are correct. We are human though. Getting emotional over everything whether important or not is one of our specialities. And we are darn good at it!

[RObert loVes MOmmy]

Well the coffee comes close that's for sure.

you're starting to become my fav mod, which is good for my moral at least.

[James Potter]

I am hoping that the Fan QA will have some nice reveals. There were very good questions asked and hopefully we get a big response. It is easy to be discouraged with so much being removed or "streamlined" from a gameplay mechanic and virtually nothing has been released on what has actually been added.

[Eve(G)]

I am hoping that the Fan QA will have some nice reveals. There were very good questions asked and hopefully we get a big response. It is easy to be discouraged with so much being removed or "streamlined" from a gameplay mechanic and virtually nothing has been released on what has actually been added.

Morale or not, I hope the QA will make the forums happy

[Joe Alvarado]

Morale or not, I hope the QA will make the forums happy

The QA will make the forum ecstatic for a little while. Then the backlash. Then it will calm down across the board, until another info dump.

[Samantha Jane Adams]

You're older than I thought you were. But it's okay, I'm sure you look half your age!

Why of course I do.

I certainly agree with your sentiment. Unfortunately, I don't think a peacekeeping post is going to do anything about the debates. Discussion is perfectly healthy as long as people don't start dragging aggressive name-calling and blatant trolling into the mix. I admire your effort in attempting to moderate proactively, but reactive actions are probably the only things that will work.

Well I've learned in life that if just one person reads something and thinks about it a bit or actually decides to be a bit more diplomatic or just takes one tiny edge off of how they respond or react to something, it's worthwhile to post such things. I have been here since 2002 and I have seen those that were 14 at that time grow into nice young men and women, finish HS, College and get married and have children of their own. Some where little hellions back then but have matured, learned to be diplomatic in disagreements and debates. Some still contact me from time to time to tell me about some post I made way back when that got them to see things differently or some even claim it changed their life. So...just those few make me know beyond any doubt what so ever that those types of posts do make a difference. Not for all but for the few it matters. Learning to be diplomatic with those you disagree with can assist someone in more than a game forum. It can assist them in careers, family issues, school...

So pardon me while I continue to try. And of course for those who don't learn, I have http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v300/wickedwoman/summer_banstickcopy.jpg :twirl:

you're starting to become my fav mod, which is good for my moral at least.

Well thank you.

[Flutterby]

[quote name='Eldron' timestamp='1308252333' post='17912758']
I heard somebody say this in a recent thread and it got me thinking. A lot of what we've been talking about recently has been very negative. Every few minutes there seems to be another thread criticizing the decisions made in Skyrim.

Morrowind had criticism, and we all loved it, Oblivion had criticism, and we all loved it (if not more than Morrowind, but it was still great). Making Skyrim they have had one of the biggest developing teams ever and it is full of amazing new gameplay features and awesome graphics. Criticize all you want, when it comes out, we will all love it.


I totally agree. I'm tired of the whining. I would much rather we speculated, wished, hoped, and dreamed about what may come.

[Kortniie Dumont]

And of course for those who don't learn, I have http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v300/wickedwoman/summer_banstickcopy.jpg :twirl:

OMG thats looks horrific! Why does it also resemble a naughty "toy". Scary!

edit: The bow makes it worse! lol

[Tina Tupou]

Streamlining is a term derived from engineering the contours of vehicles. The idea is to reduce friction as much as possible so that energy is conserved and optimum performance is achieved. If you think streamlining is a bad thing you would be happy to buy a square boat to row across a lake.... but that is not very cost effective since most people would become fatigued or frustrated very quickly so they would not buy that boat. I would think that using a system that has excess friction would be dumber than using a system that is fluid, but maybe my definition of dumb is different from people like Xarnac's. I can not imagine what dumb is to them since their perceptions are so much different from mine. That is the main problem trying to argue with them... their arguments are not about logic or reason. It is about tradition and ideals which can not be objectively discussed and result in a breakdown of civility. The game is like a religion to them and if the traditional rituals and symbolism are not adhered to Skyrim will be an act of heresy.

[Nathan Barker]

This thread gets made every. single. day.
To no avail. Face it, people like to complain about things.

True, true.

Heck, if Todd right now announced a new game for next generation consoles that he was developing on a top secret console not due for like 2015, and took a picture http://www.betweentwowhiles.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/tree-sky-small.jpg IRL, then releases it saying its ingame and not telling people its a regualr IRL picture, people WILL STILL say that the textures don't look good (Like they are saying for Skyrim). I GUARANTEE it!

[..xX Vin Xx..]

OMG thats looks horrific! Why does it also resemble a naughty "toy". Scary!

edit: The bow makes it worse! lol

Oh noes, I posted a picture of Princess Stompers. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v300/wickedwoman/summer_banstick.jpgso sorry for the confusion.

[Sophie Louise Edge]

True, true.

Heck, if Todd right now announced a new game for next generation consoles that he was developing on a top secret console not due for like 2015, and took a picture http://www.betweentwowhiles.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/tree-sky-small.jpg IRL, then releases it saying its ingame and not telling people its a regualr IRL picture, people WILL STILL say that the textures don't look good (Like they are saying for Skyrim). I GUARANTEE it!

OMG, that game has horribly small resolution. I hope the PC version gets better visuals.

[emily grieve]

Just don't consolize the game and my moral stays high.

[IM NOT EASY]

OMG, that game has horribly small resolution. I hope the PC version gets better visuals.

yep :rofl:

[Alexis Estrada]

That is the main problem trying to argue with them... their arguments are not about logic or reason. It is about tradition and ideals which can not be objectively discussed and result in a breakdown of civility. The game is like a religion to them and if the traditional rituals and symbolism are not adhered to Skyrim will be an act of heresy.

Oh ho.... I had not considered that. That makes sense. No wonder I have trouble communicating with some forum members. I do not have that kind of emotional attachment to a video game. Heck I dont have that kind of attachment to anything media related. I love plenty of video games, movies, books, etc. Not that kind of love though. I havent been religiously feverish since I gave up on religion and team sports. The last thing I had to let go was Star Wars.(i cried after i saw phantom menace opening night, and it wasnt out of happiness, havent seen it again) If the attachments some have are religious like, then I comprehend the problem. I guess that I just will not be able to communicate with some members here at all then... Thats too bad. :sadvaultboy:

[Bethany Short]

Streamlining is a term derived from engineering the contours of vehicles. The idea is to reduce friction as much as possible so that energy is conserved and optimum performance is achieved.

Cause I hate when the edges of my videogames catch the wind wrong....the term has been hijacked by everyone and their mother, and now it's just a buzzword. There are parts of the game that truly could be "streamlined" but what often happens is that you start shaving off a little bit here, and a little bit there, and just like a vehicle, the structural integrity becomes compromised. You started out with an SUV and now you've got a sports car. Sure, it's pretty, and it's faster, but try taking it offroad or getting stuck in the mud. Your gonna want those big, ugly wheels and raw power.

Okay, enough anologies. Streamlining, accessibility, and dumbing down all mean the same thing. The first two are sugarcoating and the last one is coating it with something much less appetizing. Neither are completely accurate except from specific points of view. That said, I would prefer a game which was less streamlined than Oblivion was. The quest compass, all voice dialog (what little there was) guilds with no skill requirements, always hitting, level scaled enemies, level scaled loot, all were products of streamlining and I don't like a dang one. Was the combat streamlined to be more fun that Morrowinds? It was, and it was. But there has to be another way to get that same effect without taking away the core gameplay mechanics, ie, sword skill of 10 means getting your butt kicked by anything other than a rat.

[Robert Devlin]

True, true.

Heck, if Todd right now announced a new game for next generation consoles that he was developing on a top secret console not due for like 2015, and took a picture http://www.betweentwowhiles.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/tree-sky-small.jpg IRL, then releases it saying its ingame and not telling people its a regualr IRL picture, people WILL STILL say that the textures don't look good (Like they are saying for Skyrim). I GUARANTEE it!

Pssft, whatever dude. The leaves are OBVIOUSLY low res. And I dont see any tessellation. The clouds almost look real, but you can tell they arent. The sky is WAY TOO BRIGHT, not realistic. Yeah... The reason you can see the ground is because it still looks like crap. GOD, WHY ARE ::insert target of complaint here:: STILL HOLDING BACK MY GAME!!!! Why cant Beth do it MY WAY!! God!!!

[Amber Hubbard]

Oh noes, I posted a picture of Princess Stompers. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v300/wickedwoman/summer_banstick.jpgso sorry for the confusion.

Now Thats A Ban-Hammm... um A Ban-Poker, Ban-Mauler, Ban-Genital Destroyer... hmmm...

Well its very pretty.

[Allison Sizemore]

Yet another assumption from a few seconds look at the inventory.

But whetstones to sharpen swords and temporarily improve damage are in.

Guess which gets the most posts.

It was said in the ps mag article that is was gone, just like the armor thing. There are multiple sources.

[Gemma Flanagan]

Those work of arts are very popular because they are good, they aren't good because they are so popular.
Skyrim WILL be a (lot) worse than it could have been because it is aiming at the majority/a broader audience, while it COULD have had a broader audience by being very good.
Because off all these works of art you refer too, how many have been made based mainly on the idea of reaching a audience as big as possible?

A lot of art that is popular isn't that great. It's like pulp-fiction, just a rehash of an old story, once you're done you throw it to the side and pick the next one up. They don't leave a long lasting impression. They exist to temporarily fill an emotional yearning. People have built and run entire industries out of this concept whether they want to admit it or not, because it's a cycle that makes them money. In my opinion, The Elder Scrolls series is the best of both popular art and fine art in that it has an aspect to it that can be enjoyed by anyone. These are the people that just rush through the main quest, in it for action, and the story, even though they probably don't understand half of it. Then there's that other aspect that is filled with content that gives the player the opportunity to immerse themselves within the world and gain a lot out of it.

Saying Skyrim will be bad because it aims toward a large audience in a matter of fact way is really annoying to me, especially sense we have only seen about 10 minutes of Game play. It's like playing, no, watching someone play a game for 10 minutes and deciding it's the worst game in the entire series, and could have been infinitely better. This is exactly what happens when I'm working on a painting; people come up to me while I'm working and judge the painting, and say very weird things about it even though it won't be done for another good 10 to 15 hours of work. If you ever saw the progression of one of my paintings, you'll know that it changes quite a bit as it progresses toward something I find satisfying. I especially despise people that ask me if I'm done when it's just a doodle, or say it's very good, even though I know it could be so much better. Like what vsions said, nothing can be entirely perfect and criticism is a very valuable thing if it's in the right context or it just makes the artist feel like [censored]. It's like people who say they like Morrowind more than Oblivion. That's nice, but it means nothing if you can't give a reason why. Artist's want to hear why people like it, and why people don't like it. We can only judge aspects of Skyrim we've seen, and I think it's impossible and rude to try and judge the whole product when it's not done and fully experienced.

It's okay to say we don't like how Armor customization seems to work, but there's not much weight to that, because we don't know for sure how it works and is presented in the game. Saying Skyrim will be bad because we can't separate greaves from the briastplate is like me saying Harry Potter is bad because the last chapter in the last book seemed like bad fan fiction. It's a bad chapter in a great book. It's possibly a bad feature in an overall great game in very a enjoyable series, but a bad game? No. I honestly don't mind this decision, because I didn't think it was that big of a deal in Fallout 3, sure it limits your customization a little, but it really doesn't effect the overall enjoyment of the game.