[Mashystar]

Good post. I wonder how people would feel about being able to travel to all provinces and having each province be made up of random, repeated towns and thousands of useless NPCs and the same terrain and randomly generated corridor dungeons. Don't get me wrong, I like Arena and Daggerfall, but games have since come a long way.

Exactly. I mean in daggerfall, I thought the sheer size of the world was just the most awesome thing in a video game ever. And I was a bit disappointed when I learned that Morrowind's map was going to be so tiny in comparison. I was pretty wrapped up in the thought that they were taking away part of what at the time made the game so amazing. But in the end, the map was still huge, and there was just so much more to explore within that condensed version of Vvardenfel.

[Rachel Cafferty]

Besides that silly things like armor slots weren't what made Morrowind great, Morrowind was great because it had an interesting and detailed world. Bethesda has talked about how the world in Oblivion lacked (compared to Morrowind?) and that they've been trying to make a unique interesting world again in Skyrim.

True, and this one bit is what managed to keep my hopes up afloat through the roof along the way. I just want them to continue treating the game's universe that they were painstakingly raised and nurtures for quite a long time with care and expand it, that is all. Make it into something that, sometime in the future, people will go "Star Trek? Nah, I'm more of the Elder Scrolls kind of guy". /sillyrepressednerdery.

[Joie Perez]

So did I man. I was talking about people who were twelve now

what you said just doesnt make any sense

[Laura Simmonds]

Would you care to explain. Forums are there for our benefit, so we can discuss with those off similar interests. They are not there for the benefit of the Development teams, so they can gain the benefit of our 'wisdom'.

I never argued anything about the purpose of a forum, I simply said your opinion holds more weight since you are a more experienced gamer. You do accumulate experience right ?

[Oyuki Manson Lavey]

I've been playing games on computers since the Commodore PET. Never went on a forum until I signed for this one in January. Do my opinions suddenly now hold more weight?

[Annika Marziniak]

By golly you're right. The thousands of 12 year olds who will get their moms to buy them Skyrim so they can play it for 20 hours, beat the main quest, then go back to CoD. How could we forget about those true fans?

You are my favorite person of the day. The majourity of the whiney threads here are exactly these kind of people.

[Fanny Rouyé]

By golly you're right. The thousands of 12 year olds who will get their moms to buy them Skyrim so they can play it for 20 hours, beat the main quest, then go back to CoD. How could we forget about those true fans?

You are exactly the type of person I'm talking about, you think people not on the forums are like this but this is just not true. Yes there are people like you described but there are for every game and Bethesda does not aim their games to them despite what you may think.

[FABIAN RUIZ]

Not really, I'm trying to say two different things:

-you have replied to one of vsions' post with "Please the majority, as you say. But your game will be lost to history." In my opinion that's just nonsense. So many works of art exist that are also very popular, movies, songs, and video games. The two are not mutually exclusive

and secondly

-how can you tell now that Skyrim won't be an "artistic achievement," as you said? I can't, and I just don't see how you can from what little (yes, little) we have actually seen of the game. All we have right now are a few pictures and a trailer to show us what the world looks like, and that's not much to go by. I remember I was in awe with Oblivion pre release screenshots, they were just breathtaking... yet I didn't find the game to live up to them. In my opinion the "artistic" element is not to be found mainly in gameplay changes, but in the crafting of the world itself, graphical assets, the depth of the npcs, the stories created by questers, the lore, etc... we haven't seen much of this, so I am holding judgement on whether Skyrim will be an artistic achievement.

All I'm saying is, you're being pretty damn categorical in your judgement on the artistic qualities of a game you haven't even played yet :shrug:

Your first claim needs a lot of work. Works that attain the pinnacle of artistic merit are usually ahead of their time, and are not aimed at pleasing the majority. How can the majority know they want something what hasn't been created yet? Historically, this has often been the case in literature, movies, and modern art. Take the movie Avatar, for example. It was aimed at a huge audience to make tons of money, and it did just that. It is a significant artistic achievement as a movie? Gods no. It will be forgotten in a while.

I can't tell Skyrim won't be an artistic achievement, but it is my prediction that it won't be as great an artistic achievement that it could be. It won't be timeless.

[Crystal Birch]

I never argued anything about the purpose of a forum, I simply said your opinion holds more weight since you are a more experienced gamer. You do accumulate experience right ?

I dont get it when i hadnt joined this forum yet two months ago I had just as much experience in gaming as i have now why does ik make my opinions hold more weight when i join a forum?

[Sebrina Johnstone]

So basically I made this thread so we can talk about why we're gonna love Skyrim and reverse this trend that seems to be dragging down this forum.

With a thread tittle like the one used, I think it won't inspire that trend. But I could be wrong...

I'm gonna love Skyrim because it will be even better than Battletoads. There you go, let the depressing trend be reversed!

[James Smart]

Hmm, guess I restate this point, from the original thread. I've seen nothing in the tiny amount of gameplay released that overly discouraged me, and a lot that is positively fascinating! It looks to be a beautiful game esthetically and musically, the rest is yet to be discovered. Thus far I'm very encouraged to keep the faith , . :tops:

[Javaun Thompson]

I dont get it when i hadnt joined this forum yet two months ago I had just as much experience in gaming as i have now why does ik make my opinions hold more weight when i join a forum?

I don't get it either but some people here seem to think this is the fan base in its entirety.

[Rachael]

I dont get it when i hadnt joined this forum yet two months ago I had just as much experience in gaming as i have now why does ik make my opinions hold more weight when i join a forum?

Because the very fact that you sought out to join a forum means you care about the series. Also, being active on the forum exposes you to many new ideas and opinions on matters you mightn't have thought of before

[James Wilson]

I never argued anything about the purpose of a forum, I simply said your opinion holds more weight since you are a more experienced gamer. You do accumulate experience right ?

Argument from authority (also known as appeal to authority) is a fallacy of defective induction, where it is argued that a statement is correct because the statement is made by a person or source that is commonly regarded as authoritative. The most general structure of this argument is:

1.Source A says that p is true.
2.Source A is authoritative.
3.Therefore, p is true.
This is a fallacy because the truth or falsity of a claim is not related to the authority of the claimant, and because the premises can be true, and the conclusion false (an authoritative claim can turn out to be false). It is also known as argumentum ad verecundiam (Latin: argument to respect), argumentum ad potentiam (Latin: argument to power), or ipse dixit (Latin: he himself said it).

[Joey Bel]

Not really, I'm trying to say two different things:

-you have replied to one of vsions' post with "Please the majority, as you say. But your game will be lost to history." In my opinion that's just nonsense. So many works of art exist that are also very popular, movies, songs, and video games. The two are not mutually exclusive

[...]

Those work of arts are very popular because they are good, they aren't good because they are so popular.
Skyrim WILL be a (lot) worse than it could have been because it is aiming at the majority/a broader audience, while it COULD have had a broader audience by being very good.
Because off all these works of art you refer too, how many have been made based mainly on the idea of reaching a audience as big as possible?

[Killah Bee]

Your first claim needs a lot of work. Works that attain the pinnacle of artistic merit are usually ahead of their time, and are not aimed at pleasing the majority. How can the majority know they want something what hasn't been created yet? Historically, this has often been the case in literature, movies, and modern art. Take the movie Avatar, for example. It was aimed at a huge audience to make tons of money, and it did just that. It is a significant artistic achievement as a movie? Gods no. It will be forgotten in a while.

I can't tell Skyrim won't be an artistic achievement, but it is my prediction that it won't be as great an artistic achievement that it could be. It won't be timeless.

No, my claim doesn't need a lot of work. Picasso's work was very popular during his lifetime (he was very rich before he died), Sergio Leone's movies were very popular when they were released (at least where I live), Donne's sermons were very popular when he pronounced them... all of these are the very definition of art to me, maybe your definition is different. Yes, some people's works were not popular when they were first made, but that's not true for everything artistic that was made.

I don't consider Avatar artistic in the slightest. It was merely entertaining, and a technological demo.

A prediction. So what are you basing your prediction on? I'm just asking because I'm curious.


edit:

Those work of arts are very popular because they are good, they aren't good because they are so popular.
Skyrim WILL be a (lot) worse than it could have been because it is aiming at the majority/a broader audience, while it COULD have had a broader audience by being very good.
Because off all these works of art you refer too, how many have been made based mainly on the idea of reaching a audience as big as possible?

No, I disagree, again something can be an artistic achievement regardless of the aim of its creators. Many paintings from the Renaissance were made merely to please their buyers (flattering portraits, religious scenes commissioned by the church...), and another example I used above: John Donne's sermons were obviously made to please his public.

[Amysaurusrex]

Argument from authority (also known as appeal to authority) is a fallacy of defective induction, where it is argued that a statement is correct because the statement is made by a person or source that is commonly regarded as authoritative. The most general structure of this argument is:

1.Source A says that p is true.
2.Source A is authoritative.
3.Therefore, p is true.
This is a fallacy because the truth or falsity of a claim is not related to the authority of the claimant, and because the premises can be true, and the conclusion false (an authoritative claim can turn out to be false). It is also known as argumentum ad verecundiam (Latin: argument to respect), argumentum ad potentiam (Latin: argument to power), or ipse dixit (Latin: he himself said it).

THIS JUST IN: PHYSICS PROFESSORS AND CHILDREN'S OPINIONS ON PHYSICS MUST BE EQUALLY WEIGHTED!

Yea... you misused that.

[Rachyroo]

@Zorostar, I think you misunderstood my question, but nevermind, getting off topic :cookie:

Sort of on topic : Here is what I will do. I highly recommend others do likewise, trust your friendly neighbourhood Zen, your best interests at heart and all that.
When I first play Skyrim, I will take it, enjoy it and judge it for what it is, without reference to past Elder Scrolls or any other game. I won't go looking for level scaling, I will customise my character's apparel with whatever slots there are, use whatever weapons I find that I like the look of, and make the best tactical use of the new spellcasting options, without a thought for whether or not I could craft spells in other games. My only thoughts for previous games will be when I read Lore and history books.
I played New vegas without comparing it to Fallout 3, until after I had completed a playthrough. In retrospect, it had some really good ideas, but felt a tad small and '100% completeable' compared to FO3, but this didn't stop me enjoying it.
Don't spoil what you may enjoy a lot, by spending the whole time you play on comparisons

[Stephanie Valentine]

Because the very fact that you sought out to join a forum means you care about the series. Also, being active on the forum exposes you to many new ideas and opinions on matters you mightn't have thought of before

I already cared for the series but i didnt know there was a forum. and being active on this forum means looking at the threads of many people complaining about things they saw in a 13 min long demo (atleast since last weak ).
thats why i am mostly active by saying that bethesda propebly (am i spelling this word right? :rolleyes: ) will do the best they can to make it an awesome game

[Carlos Vazquez]

First of all I have to say that every gameplay decision I've heard of has been made in the right direction. I love dual wielding and I love perks. 280 perks is an enormous amount of customization potential for any character. Also, they make leveling up so much more rewarding because there is a something qualitatively different I can do rather than just boosting up some stats and making more damage because of that or whatever. So that's something I'm very much fond of. Graphics are awesome. As a someone who plays a lot of older games I can appreciate the incredible visual quality games can achieve today. Im certainly going to be blown away by Skyrim when I boot it on my new PC. To have a world that huge and so full of interesting things, so full of detail and freedom is almost unbeliavable. I've never lost the basic fascination for that kind of stuff so I'm very excited and pumped about the forthcoming adventures in the land of Skyrim. Something like having or not having separate greaves or just one full body armor is a really small detail - like a drop in the sea amongst the massive amount of high quality content present in this masterpiece.

I like the new map even though I also like the medieval style map in Oblivion. The new one is a step forward in user friendliness. And I like the fact - as it seems to be - that only the visited areas are visible and others are obscured by the clouds. I can hardly praise the new 3rd person animations enough. They're flawless. The weight of the character is flawlessly conveyed and all those perfectly synced muscle movements give a living feel to it . There is enormous amount of talent and effort behind that stuff. I love the finishing moves because they're brutal and savage just the way I want them to be. Bashing an axe through a wolf's skull is going to be satisfying indeed. Horse animations are greatly improved and as far as I can tell, there is no visible flaw in them. One thing I really like is the fact that I can get a 3D closeup of all the stuff I collect and I'm very pleased to know that this feature is going to be used in puzzles to provide clues. I also like the "you are what you do" - system. It's less restrictive than the class system because it lets me play how I want and rewards me from that. I can evolve into any kind of character I want simply by doing certain things. Also one little thing I like very much is the fact that the main theme is titled "Sons of Skyrim". One last thing I should mention is the art direction. It's a big improvement over Oblivion. The design of characters/enemies and armor/weapons to the varying visual style of the dungeons - high quality stuff all the way. I'm very happy about that. I love the world of Oblivion visually but on certain areas - most notably in the characters and weapons/armour - there is cheap design solutions but Skyrim seems to have none of that. I can hardly wait for november 11th but luckily I have some awesome games to play in the meantime.

That was my contribution of positivity.

[Taylah Illies]

Thank you Bethesda for all your hard work! Please continue to make such great games.

[leigh stewart]

Those work of arts are very popular because they are good, they aren't good because they are so popular.
Skyrim WILL be a (lot) worse than it could have been because it is aiming at the majority/a broader audience, while it COULD have had a broader audience by being very good.
Because off all these works of art you refer too, how many have been made based mainly on the idea of reaching a audience as big as possible?

You really have no base to your claims that it is aiming at the wider audience. I essence Bethesda is changing the series to make it better, they'll probably make some mistakes but the overall result will be better than previous games.The wider audience is the wider fan base they have gained form Morrowind and more so from Oblivion(many for whom have in fact then played the earlier games.)

[Antony Holdsworth]

Not all CoD snobs are children, there are more advlts who think good video gaming started at MW2 and think RPG stands for Really Piggy Greenback and that WoW is the only MMO out there. I tell them all CoD games are pants and they start convulsing.

Okay, lets look at the Skyrim facts:

1) there is just under five months till the release date

2) what we have seen of it so far it looks nothing short of incredible

3) Todd Howard has been generous to fans on what the player can do so far (dual weilding spells, 2h spellcasting, dragonshouts... So on)

4) Non-exclusive gaming media have previewed the footage and worded their opinions in a positive light (the London newspaper Metro has stated 'If you want a social life in 2012, do not buy Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim)

All negative speculation is based on what fans have seen in 17 minutes of footage, they didn't see a set of Elven Greaves... OMG!!! The armour peices are going t svck!!!

Seem familiar?

Do us all a favor, stop whining like a Twilight Vampire, man up and just wait for the game to come out.

For every negative speculation there are TEN positive comments about this game. We out number you ten to one, so start being a bit more positive.

[Mrs. Patton]

I already cared for the series but i didnt know there was a forum. and being active on this forum means looking at the threads of many people complaining about things they saw in a 13 min long demo (atleast since last weak ).
thats why i am mostly active by saying that bethesda propebly (am i spelling this word right? :rolleyes: ) will do the best they can to make it an awesome game

Probably :thumbsup:

And I agree.

[James Shaw]

The sage does not expect that others use his criteria as their own.~Lao Tzu