It fits more in Fanfiction because it isn't history but future of tamriel and my own idea, but nevertheless i think it should be looked at here aswell, judge for yourself if it is realistic enough compared to known lore and the assumed similarity/differences with earth. (and don't mind my typing mistakes, i'm just in a hurry)

http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=847714

I could pick it apart, but the only thing I'll comment on immediately is the notion that the Altmer's navy is severely underestimated in you anolysis; I'd pose they pretty much dominate anybody in the water...

I doubt they could beat either the Redguards or the Nords.

A wizard on a warship is everything: a ship without a wizard would be like a WWI dreadnaught going against a carrier - at a distance of 400km. Now, put a swordsinger or a Thu'um on a warship, and things would be a little more even.

But they would use up their magicka reserves pretty fast, shooting at something far away and moving. And considering that the battle between Captain Dugal and Umbranox was only affected by mages' involvement at the very end, at the very last ship, they probably don't play a large part. And they didn't even aim their spells at the ship.

Erm, Island nation, remember?

The Redguards have lived on the continent for at least an era now, after destroying their original country.

And the Nords... Navy?

They don't even have boats, they water walk around the place.

Erm, leaving their original country. But they mostly live in the grasslands around the coast and maintain their empire by their incredible navy.

Yup. Or hadn't you heard?

No I haven't...

I assumed most of Skyrim's ports were almost constantly frozen over.

Comparatively, it is not like we've ever heard of a mighty Icelandic navy for example, or Russian for that matter.

But considering how many Nords and Redguards are vikings and pirates respectively, it can be assumed that they've got a lot of sailing experience.

No, my point was of island nations. Yokudan Redguards boasted a very powerful navy because it was surrounded by water. Just like Britain and it's naval tradition. Despite that yokudan tradition, that too may decline now that they live on the mainland.

And really. I never heard of pirates ever surmounting to any formidable power rivaling national navies. Same with Vikings. Viking ships carried Vikings in it, and vikings are good warriors. They sailed around, alot, doesn't mean they garnered any extensive naval combat experience from that, I mean able to combat the Altmer.

Oh and yeah, proweler kinda nailed it, cliches aren't cool.

There really is more below the obvious and wrong clich?s. Using them in an argument shows you didn't read up a whole lot on the Nords or the Redguards. Neither actually particularly stand actually out in seafaring. The Altmer on the other hand have the legacy of holding the imperial navy Septim until Tiber nuked Summerset.

In terms of sailing, I believe Redguards and Nords would hold that trophy but for overall firepower in their navy, the Altmeri Navy takes the chocolate cake covered cake.

Shows what you know. Redguards are known to often be smugglers, and that often translates to piracy. And many of the pirates in Oblivion happened to be Redguards. As for Nords, they have Reavers, who land on northern areas like Solstheim and raid small camps, basically the equivalent of Vikings, only in smaller numbers. In addition, it is mentioned in Oblivion that Nords like sailing.


Captain Dugal would say otherwise.

The Redguard Navy is not a unified force, remember. And the legacy of the powerful Yokudan navies have been all but unforgotten, as was joked about in the Daggerfall book http://imperial-library.info/dfbooks/b070_jokes.shtml.



Then again, the same book did joke about the Sentinel army's weakness, so it can't be taken too literally. After all, Redguards are some of the mightiest warriors in Tamriel.

But as for against Summerset? Not a chance. Any attack on Summerset itself would be met by powerful magickal resistance, as we saw in the War of the Isles when the Psiijics conjured a storm that destroyed the Maormer Navy. And they can boast the only ship to ever get to Pyandonea, and return to tell the tale.

The Psiijics are special. Most Altmer (or any of the other races, for that matter) don't have that level of power. And as http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/firsthold_revolt.shtmlshowed (or would have shown if Morgiah wasn't lying about the battlemages), battlemages can be countered.

Edit: Added a link

Yes, he would. That's because Captain Dugal was a damn good captain, and used his knowledge islands of the Abecean Sea wisely. Using famous, particular instances doesn't prove anything. And, he wasn't fighting against Altmer, either.

Just because Dagoth Thras was an expert at blocking, doesn't mean all Dagoths were excellent shield-users and able to stave off armies of Ordinators.

I wasn't trying to prove anything, I was just showing you that there has been such an incident of pirates rivaling navies in power. And in that battle, the navy had mages, but they didn't affect the battle until the very end.

Both the Smugglers and the Reavers are only a small portion of Redgaurd and Nord population. Just because a few people use boats, it doesn't make great sailors automatically.

It'd make more sense to argue something along the lines of Cyrodiil having a good navy because the whole city is surounded by water and thick jungle, leaving only the river as a viable trade route. The years of sailing would have made them expert sailors because many Nibenians have been doing it frequently over a very long time.

You can't say the same thing about Nords or Redguards.

---

You're also still hanging on that silly idea that because something is acts somewhat like the stereotypical Vikings, they must also be great sailors. Now frankly said, I haven't seen or heard anything about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runestone#Expeditions_in_the_East.

Sten the Ugly mentions that Nords like ships and sailing.


It would make them be good at boating and ferrying, not seafaring. And since there's fast travel, there was no need to have any of that.


We don't know much about Reavers; there hasn't been much info on them. However, you do meet one in Vivec, and he seems to know a lot about Nordic history, and (roughly) the location of that Nordic burial, so they've probably gotten around. But hopefully, if TES V does take place in Skyrim, we'll get more info on these seafaring raiders. Hopefully.

The Altmer had already been sailing all over Tamriel and beyond back when the most advanced humans were the Nedics, they've got generations of experience over anybody else in seafaring alone, plus they're great in battle as well...


It also seems I've managed to completely isolate this topic to one debate alone in terms of the RP's lore accuracy. A few other points I might mention in regards to it:
-I can't see establishing 'colonies' in Yokuda being a big priority for Hammerfell, not only are there people already in what's left of Yokuda but if I remember correctly they're already trading with them anyway.
-Moving the capital to Sancre Tor is unlikely, the IC is too important geographically and metaphysically.
-"To improve economic migration... and to prevent another continental war" is not really a reason why other provinces would submit to a new government.
-Highrock is not a "land of magicians", that's Summerset if anywhere.
-How is it that Skyrim, one of the provinces with the most military history, has a lower military ranking than Argonia which has never really been known for any organized military efforts?

Yes, because if Sten the Ugly mentioning that Nords like ships isn't hard evidence for their seafaring prowess, nothing is...

The same could be said for the Nords; they lived in the area now known as Morrowind long before the Chimer arrived. And during that era, it was obviously a custom to bury royalty in a funeral boat.


He's a Nord, you're not. Neither am I, for that matter.

...what?

the Nords did not come to Morrowind until the Chimer were settled there. They did live in Atmora before, and had to said to Tamriel, but that doesn't prove them as uber seafarers either. And where did you get the whole funeral boat thing? ive never seen that in lore.

as for the second part, let me mention that the majority of teenage males like videogames. doesn't mean that they are good at them.

Wait, no.

[censored], I can't recall but there was a Nord funeral ship in a maze. Some drunken Nord in a bar at Vivec said about it.

Though I don't remember that being in lore, even so it's a good thing I'm talking about Altmer rather than Chimer then, who were there long before the Nords... [Edit:] I guess it would technically be Aldmer, but still, the point stands...

Which is exactly why I know more than him...

err, you can walk from skyrim to morrowind. so them being in morrowind at any time wouldn't really effect their seafaring skills