The game clearly tells you which items are direct upgrades a : V - Skyrim

» Sat Aug 27, 2011 8:14 am

Well, I guess, after a few hours of playing you'll know anyway which weapons have the hightest damage anyway. Same for armour, even if you're not much into looking at stats. I don't think weapon and armour classification differs a lot from morrowind and oblivion. And in morrowind and oblivion, after the point of finding the first glass sword you knew forever that glass weapons were better than steel or iron (in terms of damage).

If you find equipment you've allready seen, you'll know if it's better or worse than the stuff you're using. If you find new equipment, quickly compare value, look and maybe stats and then equip. Wouldn't worry too much about the game showing you what's best. Depends on how you play the game though.

» Sat Aug 27, 2011 11:05 am

No my dislike is twofold.

I dont like being told what to do in the game. Be that a quest compass or an inventory that keeps reminding me that my silver dagger is inferior to the loot I pick up.

Secondly I feel it detracts from the 'world' I am in and makes it more of a 'game'.
Why would my hero be constantly reminded that other weapons are better when my character would never use anything but the family heirloom sword, for example? It diminishes roleplaying by setting an 'optimum path'.

totally agree. rdr, fable auto holster weapon anyone?

» Sat Aug 27, 2011 5:39 am

Yeah but it's one more hand holding thing. Eventually they're on everything and everywhere that they're hard to ignore for those who don't like being hand held like a 9 year old.

How is it handholding exactly? Most people want to use the best equipement available to them anyway and due to how inventory is laid out now it is harder to compare stats so a feature like this is purely convenience because most people are just going to look for the best item anyway.
The OP asserting that it is more gamey than stats being there in the first place or that it implies they think we are less clever because they made it easier to do one thing is ridiculous. If they didn't people would be [censored]ing about how hard it is to find the best equipment with no way to compare the stats easily. I know because I've already seen it happen.

» Sat Aug 27, 2011 1:30 am

My favorite part about that article is that he was whining about all the "johnny-come-lately" fans who didn't know the Elder Scrolls, yet he linked to the Elder Scrolls Wikia page for the Bosmer race.
Any true Elder Scrolls fan uses the UESP, not the Wikia.

Pfft, any true TES fan would use TIL.

» Fri Aug 26, 2011 11:36 pm

SURPRISE!

It's a game, not your [censored] life!

» Sat Aug 27, 2011 6:15 am

"The game clearly tells you which items are direct upgrades and even what the best items you are carrying are. "

http://www.ripten.com/2011/08/25/one-hour-with-skyrim-finally-made-me-a-true-believer-hands-on/2/

Im not too happy about this as I feel it puts more 'game' into my 'world' than Id like.
It promotes powergaming and implies people arent clever enough to look at stats.
I never really cared about the 'best' weapon in an Elder Scrolls game as I believe this is the wrong type of game to powergame.
I prefer picking a weapon that fits my character and that I find pleasant to look at.
For instance, in Oblivion I always used a plain silver or daedric longsword and never didnt I give Umbra back to Clavicus.

In my mind this is a bit like the quest compass.
Hand holding and directing the player down a pre-set path when the premise of the game should be discovery, exploration and choice.
Not going for the best damage per second, to me that is wholly immaterial and I wouldnt like being told by the game that my silver dagger isnt good enough.

How do other people feel about this?
I would like to hear opinions.

I feel the numbers and indications of which weapon is best, etc, is fine. It won't affect how I play. I can read the numbers, determine which weapon I like better through actual thinking - but I won't take something helpful away from those who would use it. Same goes for the compass. While I don't personally use it for quests and such generally, I won't take it away from people who do.

» Sat Aug 27, 2011 4:50 am

It is irrelevant. Just as I almost entirely ignore weapon stats now in Morrowind and Oblivion, so too will I ignore such "advice", should it prove forthcoming and irremovable.

» Fri Aug 26, 2011 7:07 pm

I like it. In fact, I love it. Sue me.

» Fri Aug 26, 2011 11:47 pm

How is it handholding exactly? Most people want to use the best equipement available to them anyway and due to how inventory is laid out now it is harder to compare stats so a feature like this is purely convenience because most people are just going to look for the best item anyway.
The OP asserting that it is more gamey than stats being there in the first place or that it implies they think we are less clever because they made it easier to do one thing is ridiculous. If they didn't people would be [censored]ing about how hard it is to find the best equipment with no way to compare the stats easily. I know because I've already seen it happen.

It's hand holding in the way that we don't need to do anything anymore; we just sit back and let the game do everything for us.

We don't need to compare items anymore and judge for ourselves which one is better or not, the game does it for us.
We don't need to look around the world anymore to find out where we should go, the game does it for us.
We don't need to use our brains to figure out which are enemies or friends anymore, the game does it for us.
We don't need to look around the world anymore to find dungeons or certain happenings, the game does it for us.

You might be surprised, but some people actually like to think for themselves. Yes, really.

» Fri Aug 26, 2011 7:31 pm

In Tamriel Skyrim, you do not choose the weapons, the weapons choose you... :hubbahubba:

» Sat Aug 27, 2011 4:28 am

I feel the numbers and indications of which weapon is best, etc, is fine. It won't affect how I play. I can read the numbers, determine which weapon I like better through actual thinking - but I won't take something helpful away from those who would use it. Same goes for the compass. While I don't personally use it for quests and such generally, I won't take it away from people who do.

Also very true.
Note that I never said Id like it removed though. I can imagine people finding it useful and I agree, its not le bon ton to want to restrict other peoples freedom.
I just hope that like in Oblivion it is easily ignored.

» Fri Aug 26, 2011 7:35 pm

oh please, tons of legitimate RPG's already do this and have done this since the beginning.

snip

» Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:24 pm

It's hand holding in the way that we don't need to do anything anymore; we just sit back and let the game do everything for us.

We don't need to compare items anymore and judge for ourselves which one is better or not, the game does it for us.
We don't need to look around the world anymore to find out where we should go, the game does it for us.
We don't need to use our brains to figure out which are enemies or friends anymore, the game does it for us.
We don't need to look around the world anymore to find dungeons or certain happenings, the game does it for us.

You might be surprised, but some people actually like to think for themselves. Yes, really.

what he said

» Sat Aug 27, 2011 8:55 am

Also very true.
Note that I never said Id like it removed though. I can imagine people finding it useful and I agree, its not le bon ton to want to restrict other peoples freedom.
I just hope that like in Oblivion it is easily ignored.

You CAN ignore it. You see the values and just keep your silver dagger. Is quite easy.

» Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:39 am

It's hand holding in the way that we don't need to do anything anymore; we just sit back and let the game do everything for us.

We don't need to compare items anymore and judge for ourselves which one is better or not, the game does it for us.
We don't need to look around the world anymore to find out where we should go, the game does it for us.
We don't need to use our brains to figure out which are enemies or friends anymore, the game does it for us.
We don't need to look around the world anymore to find dungeons or certain happenings, the game does it for us.

You might be surprised, but some people actually like to think for themselves. Yes, really.

You have a point... a good one ...

» Sat Aug 27, 2011 5:34 am

It's hand holding in the way that we don't need to do anything anymore; we just sit back and let the game do everything for us.

We don't need to compare items anymore and judge for ourselves which one is better or not, the game does it for us.

We don't need to look around the world anymore to find out where we should go, the game does it for us.
We don't need to use our brains to figure out which are enemies or friends anymore, the game does it for us.
We don't need to look around the world anymore to find dungeons or certain happenings, the game does it for us.

You might be surprised, but some people actually like to think for themselves. Yes, really.

If you want the game tailored to how YOU want to play... Play on pc. Mods can get rid of all the "handholding" you don't like. That's what I did in Oblivion.

If you play on consoles, tough [censored].

» Sat Aug 27, 2011 1:50 am

It's hand holding in the way that we don't need to do anything anymore; we just sit back and let the game do everything for us.

We don't need to compare items anymore and judge for ourselves which one is better or not, the game does it for us.
We don't need to look around the world anymore to find out where we should go, the game does it for us.
We don't need to use our brains to figure out which are enemies or friends anymore, the game does it for us.
We don't need to look around the world anymore to find dungeons or certain happenings, the game does it for us.

You might be surprised, but some people actually like to think for themselves. Yes, really.

It saves you the time of looking for the higher number. Oh god don't take away looking for the higher number that is what makes us soo very clever, please. It takes no thought at all to perform that task, making it simpler is not hand holding it is convenience.
I'm sorry but that is just needless complaining

The game also doesn't play itself, you have to look around the game world, determine friends from enemies, and find the dungeons.

Oh and thanks for trying to make it seem that I don't like to think for myself because I don't hate one thing that adds convenience to some player that can be totally ignored, insults are so mature.

» Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:39 am

It just lets you know quickly and simply if what you just grabbed or just found in a shop is worth looking at more closely.

If you have problems with something like that... close your eyes and hum loudly.

» Sat Aug 27, 2011 7:01 am

It's exactly like the compass, It's their if you need it for a little extra help. Whether you use it or not is completely up to you. Stop complaining.

» Sat Aug 27, 2011 1:53 am

It's exactly like the compass, It's their if you need it for a little extra help. Whether you use it or not is completely up to you. Stop complaining.

Stop telling me I am complaining when I am raising an issue I have had concerns over and decided to make a thread about so I could glean from other people's opinions.
It is insulting.

» Sat Aug 27, 2011 1:09 am

If you have problems with something like that... close your eyes and hum loudly.

Or use (possibly create!) a mod to kill it to death.

That is Option 1, for me.

» Sat Aug 27, 2011 11:08 am

Pfft, any true TES fan would use TIL.

True, but TIL is mainly for lore and books. UESP is a great resource for gameplay info.
Though I usually do find myself on TIL more often...

» Fri Aug 26, 2011 9:40 pm

you promot laziness yea thinking is over rated... [censored] off

Yeah ok promoting laziness because I don't think it's a problem and only adds convenience not hand holding.

» Fri Aug 26, 2011 7:39 pm

It's hand holding in the way that we don't need to do anything anymore; we just sit back and let the game do everything for us.

We don't need to compare items anymore and judge for ourselves which one is better or not, the game does it for us.
We don't need to look around the world anymore to find out where we should go, the game does it for us.
We don't need to use our brains to figure out which are enemies or friends anymore, the game does it for us.
We don't need to look around the world anymore to find dungeons or certain happenings, the game does it for us.

You might be surprised, but some people actually like to think for themselves. Yes, really.

Who finds this stuff actually difficult to ignore?

As for the comparisons of in-game items, I *always* double-check that stuff, even if you're feeling lazy you never know when such a comparison might forget the whole fire damage that one sword does over that other one... or it can't put a value on a particular type of attack that is a lot more valuable than it is on paper to your particular build. It may work for the very beginning, when damage and rate of attack are the only variants, but I don't trust it beyond that, even if I were going to use it. And of course there is always your favorite - and if you push up smithing and enchanting, you can keep that dagger or whatever you like and make it the best weapon.

The rest of that whinefest about things already in the game previous is basically "I hate the compass". The compass is a strip at the bottom of the screen, I always managed to avoid it unless I needed to know N,E,S,or W, etc... and from what I have read, you can go into the options in Fallout and disable parts of that, so why go out of your way to assume it won't be in the next game made by the same developer?

» Fri Aug 26, 2011 7:44 pm

It saves you the time of looking for the higher number. Oh god don't take away looking for the higher number that is what makes us soo very clever, please.
I'm sorry but that is just needless complaining

The game also doesn't play itself, you have to look around the game world, determine friends from enemies, and find the dungeons.

I understand Bethesda's situation and that hand holding is, apparently, popular amongst modern "casual" players; however, Bethesda shouldn't alienate those who don't like hand holding.

Like previously said in this thread, if it's in a subtle, non-intrusive way, there is not much of a problem for either sides, because then those who like to think for themselves can do so.
However, if it's instrusive and hard to ignore, and if it's "forced" on all gamers, then we might have a problem.
It's not needless complaining, because apparently there's a lot of people concerned about it; some deeply enough to wait for third party content to release on the PC (mods) in order to make the game enjoyable for them.

The best game design is to appeal to all players, not "shut some people out", just because they actually like to think for themselves.

With all the hand holding, some may ask themselves: who is playing the game? Are we playing the game, or the game is playing itself for us?