The game start.

Post » Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:09 am

I'm not totally adverse to a prison start, but I think it would be interesting to go in a new direction. What I'd really like to see is a boat - so the player is an immigrant to the country, either a foreigner come to start a new life in the province, or a native who was born in a distant country and has come to resettle in the lands of their forebears.

Two essential things about the starting sequence, however - the tutorial should be skippable, or very short. It should not take long to get out into the real world. Also you should not be thrust into the main story. Think about it, Oblivions start really left no scope for ignoring the main quest. You could, of course, but it didn't make sense - "Here is the amulet, take it to Jauffre or the world will be destroyed!!! :obliviongate:" You wouldn't just walk off and do your own thing. Morrowind was better in this respect - you were not compelled to visit Caius, except by those who had recently been your captors, and who you are probably not best friends with.
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An Lor
 
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Post » Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:46 am

I'd like to toss the prison theme. In my opinion the game should give the option of tutorial or no tutorial. The tutorial would be in a dream setting, and after it's done you wake up in a small one bunk camp. The reason you wake up is because you hear someone yelling from the road nearby. In the road, theres a dead messenger with a message to whoever you go to start the main quest.
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Quick draw II
 
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Post » Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:41 pm

Morrowind was better in this respect - you were not compelled to visit Caius, except by those who had recently been your captors, and who you are probably not best friends with.

You could even sell the package...
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Kathryn Medows
 
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Post » Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:06 am

I didn't nind the prison starts but I don't feel it should be a tradition. DF's start also worked well. All thats needed is something that doesn't limit your character choices and gets your character where they need to be. Given the freedom that TES has always given you the start is always going to be rather generic compared to games that limit your character choice like Dragon Age and The Witcher.
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lauraa
 
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Post » Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:16 am

I agree that a shipwreck would be cool. That would also be a nice way to get some loot... corpse robbing anyone? :hubbahubba:
I call dibs on the captain's hat.

Edit* apparently I wasn't paying attention at all when typing this the first time :brokencomputer:
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Rebekah Rebekah Nicole
 
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Post » Tue Nov 30, 2010 11:05 pm

Well I have posted my idea for the next game's start, a long time ago:

In Mw the game started in a dream. The player as prisoner was asleep and dreaming as he was told that he was chosen, and he was told to wake up.

In Ob the game started in a dream. The emperor dreamed about the hordes of destruction as they were about to invade the lands under his command and destroy it.

In TES5, the game can start in a dream. You can dream about the hordes of destruction as they are invading the land of TES5, and destroying the towns, and building their own towers of oblivion in the scorched land, and then dream about the regrouping of the native people to attack the invading forces, and forcing them to retreat to out of reach lands, and the resulting anarchy and unrest in that continent.

You see yourself in a dark, nightmarish world, fighting a huge beast, something like a combined monstrosity of human, crocodile, goat and wolf. You are defeated and it grabs at your body and takes you away as the world fades into darkness.

Finally you will be informed, (in an un-earthly voice), that you are chosen, and you are freed to unite the nation and bring back the peace, you are told that you have lost everything and must start from the beginning and try to recover any skill and strength that you have lost, and you are told to seek a specific person, or a specific place, (with a specific name), and then you are told to wake up. ;)

After that, inside of a sick room gradually appears before your eyes, and you are a floating entity approaching a bed. A covered body is over the bed and you enter that body, after that you push the cover away, and try to open your eyes and look around to see an old nun/nurse knitting beside a desk in a room filled with old beds and a few other unconscious patients.

You try to sit, but the nurse notices your movement and shrieks that you are awake at last, and then forces you to lie down on the bed again, and exits the room to fetch the priest of the cathedral, (as the sick room is part of a cathedral).

You try to sit again, and when the priest hurries into the room and looks at you with noticeable awe, you are already sitting on the bed. The priest hurries to your side, dragging the chair which the nurse had occupied before, then he places it in front of you, and sits down to survey you more closely.

Then he says: "Look at you; nobody would ever guess that you have been asleep for about two centuries! I know that you are weak, but your face does not show it at all. Can you remember your name?"

In this moment you are presented with a character generation dialogue to select a race, body, face and a name.

After that the priest informs you that about two hundred years ago the gates to oblivion started to open on all the surface of the Tamriel and the hordes of oblivion invaded their lands and destroyed a lot of places, and made a mayhem that still rages after so many years.

In the first days after the start of the invasion, you were brought here to the cathedral, unconscious, and were bedded in this very bed and then the priest that managed the cathedral at the time was informed that you were a special patient that might remain asleep for centuries, and he and the next priests were to keep an eye on you, until you awoke.

After that you must be trained a bit of the basic weaponry and spell casting to decide what would be your class of actions, and you were to be watched by a seer mage to decide how the stars have affected your fortune, and then we have to supply you a bit for your voyage ahead.

At that point we should let you wander around the island and get some experience to gain back some of your skills and strengths. Then we would put you to a final test which will remain a secret until you are ready.

After the test, depending on the result, you will be sent to a place in the main land to fulfill your mission as no doubt you already know a bit about your mission.

The priest waits for a bit, looking keenly at your face, but as he gets no response, he starts to rise and says: "All right keep it to yourself. Can you follow me to the next room?”

==============================================

All right, let’s assume that the newbie area is in fact an island, like M&M7. In this island you can see the main land from the coastline but if you try to swim all the way to the mainland you would become a good meal for the sea creatures, unless you reach level 20, for instance, which would be impossible in the relatively small newbie island with its limited amount of available quality equipment and assets.

You could pass the main newbie island challenge and get the rights to use the official available transport facility, which probably is a part of the main quest, or you could look for an alternative way, like a smuggling ferry available at specific times of the night to a specific group of people, so you would have to find your way into those groups.

Or you can find and befriend a secluded monk or mage in the hidden and dangerous depths of a cave or dungeon in the Newbie Island, i.e. this island can have some very dangerous places from the very beginning, so let’s develop this theme.

In a newbie dungeon cave there can be a sign that warns the characters not to enter the inner depths of some branches of the cave, but if anyone enters those depths and could outrun or evade the resident dangers on those areas, and find the correct route, they could reach a relatively peaceful place to find some good loot and for instance a lonely mage that could teleport them to the main land.

This way the game gives the players a standard route that would develop their characters, and gives them a taste of what is in store before they could have access to the rest of the world, but it also gives them other back-door opportunities to find a faster way out, but they have to use their mind and character skills to find those opportunities.

==============================================

Anyways, when the players exit the newbie area, by any possible route, they would start in a relatively easier place and would gradually have access to more dangerous places.

The game can be dynamic in this aspect, i.e. like my next Oblivion project, the surface area can be divided into different zones, and the relative danger level of each cell is governed by the combined effects of the nearby danger zones, so if we give a higher level of danger to a zone (compared to the neighborhood), the cells near the center of the zone are more dangerous than the border areas of that zone.

The danger levels of these zones can be defined/altered on the fly, so their next (monster/loot) spawns would be leveled to the current danger level of that area.

From the start of the game there can be more dangerous places like outlandish moors, and hostile towns, and less dangerous places like near the newbie towns, but those danger zones can be adjusted in the real time, so when the player exits the newbie area and enters the rest of the world, the place in which he has entered the world is marked as newbie area and it's danger level is scaled to the newbie level, and the way to the nearest newbie town is marked as low level danger as well.

But the rest of the world remains at its default danger level, except for the fact that the danger level of faraway places are raised a bit depending on their distance from the player's starting area, even the areas around the newbie towns of those faraway places would become a bit more dangerous.

The danger level defined for each zone is the approximate level of a player that would be moderately challenged in that area, so if a place is marked as a magnitude 20 danger level, then a level 20 player would be moderately challenged in that area, with regard to the probable arsenal that a level 20 player would possess.

The dungeons are defined as dangerous as the cell that their entrance is located at, plus a defined amount of danger level, depending on how deep they go, so the place near the entrance is just a little more challenging than the outside area, but the deeper levels would become increasingly more dangerous.

Each internal cell can point to an external cell for the danger level reference, which can also be useful for the target of spell effects like "jump outside", and for the environment effects like "natural interiors", and each cell can have a relative danger index that is added to the calculated danger level for that external cell, so for a first level dungeons this can be 5 and for the next level this can be 8 and so on...

This way the developers can still use this leveled list idea but instead of scaling it to the player level, scale it to the danger level calculated for the area. And also the developers can change the danger level of different areas on the fly, depending in the events that have happened in those places, as in the main quest line or other big happenings.

For instance a war between two opposing clans or the opening of an oblivion gate in an area could increase the danger level of that area as much as we like, without the need to spawn a specific amount of monsters, and just by changing of a value, and setting the zone to respawn at the next visit.

The designers should also be able to place individual high level random monsters and loot, wherever they like, and select their danger level by hand, because this way we can have a scenario like the single dragon in the specific cave of the newbie island in the M&M7 game.

The random monster template should have the option to select a minimum and maximum for the size of the calculated resultant monster so that only monsters within that size range are selected.

==============================================

By developing the dynamic danger zones idea, the game can still have leveled lists and randomized encounters and rewards, but those encounters and rewards are leveled depending on the place, and not the player, and we can have extremely dangerous places from the beginning of the game which could possibly be scaled as level 100, so a level 100 player would be challenged there and thus we can have places that in an unmoded game would always remain as too dangerous to enter.

So if a player had a perfect chance and those leveled list were in his favor and he could somehow evade those dangers, he could find the loot that are scaled at level 100, but this requires that the game could supply danger level and loot that is scaled to level 100.

Diablo II has done that by giving the same monster meshes different textures, scales, attributes and names to scale them for more different danger levels, also it does it for the loot as well, so Diablo II can have a relatively more scaled danger level with relatively fewer resources.

This way the game can scale the danger levels of different areas and the dungeons in those areas so that the deepest level of the dungeon at the most dangerous surface area would be scaled to the danger level that a level 100 player would be moderately challenged there.

And there could be a GMST definition as 1.0 that could be multiplied to these calculated danger levels, so that later on it could be changed easily by mods that could supply danger level and loot beyond the default level limit of 100 for the leveled lists.

Remember that this level 100 is just an example and it can be any other number.

==============================================

The Bottom Line is that for the free form type of games like TES, the perfect setting is a world that always has some areas that are too easy for the player, other areas that are too hard for him, and some areas that are just right, no matter what level he is.

This way the players can set the pace themselves, casual gamers can take it slow and attend the easier parts until they are ready for the harder parts, but hard-core players can try to get ahead of themselves and find the harder places before they are the right level, to get better loot earlier.

Another benefit of this scaled world is that there are areas that are always too hard in a normal game-play, so in the forums, we might read comments like this:

=== === === === === ===
"Yeeeeeaaaaayz, palz, *F*i*n*a*l*l*y*, I got past those nasty guardians of the "Netherwatch Citadel", without any cheat, honest!!! OK, I did not reach the throne room, but who has?..."
=== === === === === ===
"WOW, that’s incredible! How did you manage that? What level is your character? What is your race and primary class?..."
=== === === === === ===
"Well, I had quite a bit of luck, because..."
=== === === === === ===

This can turn into contests and survival races and so on... :D

But remember, the higher level nasties should not chase the players to the end of the world, and passing some gateways or passages into more civilized areas should warn the nasties to back away and return to their territory.

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Meghan Terry
 
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Post » Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:06 am

I don't care, just as long as I can start playing the game in a reasonably fast time. Oblivion's starter dungeon was cool and all, but it became annoying after so many play throughs, and I don't like loading up from a save file, I like starting from the beginning each time.

Something that takes about as long as Morrowind's tutorial would be nice.

But no pop up tutorials. Those annoyed me in both games. At least in Daggerfall they were optional.
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Dragonz Dancer
 
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Post » Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:32 am

Where's the "I really couldn't possibly care less as long as I can create a character in 5 minutes" option?
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Brandon Wilson
 
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Post » Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:58 am

I agree that a shipwreck would be cool. That would also be a nice way to get some loot... corpse robbing anyone? :hubbahubba:
I call dibs on the captain's hat.

Edit* apparently I wasn't paying attention at all when typing this the first time :brokencomputer:

I call dibs on the captain's...

The shirt would be wet... taking the pants would be awkward... shoes are too cheap... the quarters probably sunk, and with it all of the stuff...

Peg leg?

[Edit]

I'd like to start while the ship is SINKING. :D You find another boat, get on board they ask you your name and your class (to see if you could be any use around there), they say "By the Nine! You must have been born under the sign of the Thief to be so lucky!" and you can say "yeah" or you can choose another birthsign, you walk inside, look in a mirror, choose your appearance/race/gender. You land on Skyrim. Have fun.
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Alina loves Alexandra
 
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Post » Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:18 am

I like that idea but for the tutorial they should show the new features.
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FABIAN RUIZ
 
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Post » Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:25 am

Some "good" actions are legally wrong. Stealing medicine to save somebody's life, is just an example. You could have been framed (as mentioned), you could have been involved with a group you didn't know was doing illegal things until it was too late, you could have some ability (or disability, I should say) that makes you sometimes randomly cast a spell, and you just happened to hit someone this time. The possibilities are really endless.

However, I'd like it if I could start with a clean slate, like exiting a carriage into a city, or somebody pulling my character up onto a boat after they found him/her floating in the water.

I know, I'm not saying peoples lack of creativity is the problem. I'm just saying it starts you out with a sort of big event, being in prison. Every single character you have ever played in Oblivion was in prison at least once.

[edit]
Anyways, I would like it to be something different. I'm not totally against the prison thing, never really bothered me personally, I liked Daggerfall's intro story. But what I don't want is another long tutorial telling me how to swing a sword or move around. Make it optional, and give seasoned TES players a quick start, and for people playing a second playthrough.
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no_excuse
 
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Post » Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:52 am

I think I just got an idea. Yeah, boats again. You were on the crew of a ship for the sake of going where you need to go (the starting location), and one of the older crew members notices that you're new and decides to train you a little bit in what little sword and magic he knows. That's the tutorial. Then he tells you that he has to stay on the ship, but you could go talk to his friend in town that may have something for you to do, thus starting the main quest, but at the same time being very easy to just say "nah, [censored] that, I'll go this way."
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Louise Dennis
 
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Post » Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:14 am

I think I just got an idea. Yeah, boats again. You were on the crew of a ship for the sake of going where you need to go (the starting location), and one of the older crew members notices that you're new and decides to train you a little bit in what little sword and magic he knows. That's the tutorial. Then he tells you that he has to stay on the ship, but you could go talk to his friend in town that may have something for you to do, thus starting the main quest, but at the same time being very easy to just say "nah, [censored] that, I'll go this way."

Yeah, that sounds pretty good to me. It leaves it very open ended, but is still good for players just starting out, and can get right to the main quest also.

I think they should give you like a note or something to take to his "friend", sort of like in Morrowind, and make it so it's not a quest item so you can drop it (maybe give a little pop-up warning message if you do drop it) if you don't want anything to do with the main quest.
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Dan Scott
 
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Post » Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:24 am

Yeah, that sounds pretty good to me. It leaves it very open ended, but is still good for players just starting out, and can get right to the main quest also.

I think they should give you like a note or something to take to his "friend", sort of like in Morrowind, and make it so it's not a quest item so you can drop it (maybe give a little pop-up warning message if you do drop it) if you don't want anything to do with the main quest.


Yeah. But on a side note, they should bring back the ability to get rid of quest items. That way you really pay for losing them.
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Sam Parker
 
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Post » Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:15 pm

Yeah. But on a side note, they should bring back the ability to get rid of quest items. That way you really pay for losing them.

Freedom. I like it.
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joannARRGH
 
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Post » Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:43 pm

GET
RID
OF
THE
PRISON THEME.

They should make you start as a Lowly villager, from a Village that is suddenly beseiged by whatever is the bad guy in TES5. You have the option to begin before the attack.

Before the attack you wander arround town doing errands for people. Such as,
-clearing rats from someones basemant(combat training)
-stealing back a sweet roll from a Bully for the kid who lost it(stealth/persuation training)
-putting out a Haybale fire with a water or ice spell(magic training)

The attack itself is simple and short, but leaves you with nothing as there are few survivors.
Edit: The other survivors head to a city to start a new life, you could go with them or off on your own. No main quest pressure.
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Kevan Olson
 
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Post » Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:01 am

The Prison Intro was never a [censored] tradition for the The Elder Scroll Series. Hell, it is in argue that Arena's intro is basically ya stuck in a dungeon to rot and die with no indication of a prison setting because the Villain just put ya there for giggle/hate ya.

So ya, screw any future prison intro and give use the basic clear cut intro that can give anyone a background.
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Andrew Perry
 
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Post » Tue Nov 30, 2010 11:02 pm

Actually some people would disagree about the prison start allowing you to create your background. Like if people want to play a completely "pure" or "good" character, they wouldn't want them to have gone to prison already.

Arena-Jagar Tharn, your enemy, put you there. You are not necessarily a criminal

Morrowind-The emperor sent you in this prison ship with the suspicion of you being the Nerevarine. You are not necessarily a criminal.

Oblivion-"Perhaps the gods have placed you here so that we may meet." You are not necessarily a criminal.

In a world full of magic and divine intervention, it's easy to make up a background of any kind.
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Sarah Kim
 
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Post » Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:20 pm

GET
RID
OF
THE
PRISON THEME.

They should make you start as a Lowly villager, from a Village that is suddenly beseiged by whatever is the bad guy in TES5. You have the option to begin before the attack.

Before the attack you wander arround town doing errands for people. Such as,
-clearing rats from someones basemant(combat training)
-stealing back a sweet roll from a Bully for the kid who lost it(stealth/persuation training)
-putting out a Haybale fire with a water or ice spell(magic training)

The attack itself is simple and short, but leaves you with nothing as there are few survivors.
Edit: The other survivors head to a city to start a new life, you could go with them or off on your own. No main quest pressure.

I suggested a similar thing, although it wasn't attacked like the village was in Fable. :P
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cutiecute
 
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Post » Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:09 am

I suggested a similar thing, although it wasn't attacked like the village was in Fable. :P

I never played Fable.
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JD FROM HELL
 
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Post » Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:24 am

I never played Fable.

XD Then it's very odd that you thought of that situation.

But, in your version of it you aren't a child who runs around doing errands, so I guess it isn't technically the same. Fable just popping into my mind, is all.
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Cameron Wood
 
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Post » Wed Dec 01, 2010 1:22 pm

XD Then it's very odd that you thought of that situation.

This is by no means original. Neverwinter Nights 2 used it, many books have, movies, etc.
The best way to start a quest is to erase your past.
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^_^
 
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Post » Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:32 am

Don't care, just make it short next time
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Connie Thomas
 
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Post » Wed Dec 01, 2010 1:31 am

GET
RID
OF
THE
PRISON THEME.

They should make you start as a Lowly villager, from a Village that is suddenly beseiged by whatever is the bad guy in TES5. You have the option to begin before the attack.

Before the attack you wander arround town doing errands for people. Such as,
-clearing rats from someones basemant(combat training)
-stealing back a sweet roll from a Bully for the kid who lost it(stealth/persuation training)
-putting out a Haybale fire with a water or ice spell(magic training)

The attack itself is simple and short, but leaves you with nothing as there are few survivors.
Edit: The other survivors head to a city to start a new life, you could go with them or off on your own. No main quest pressure.




This idea would be awsome. I have another too. A story based on how you customize your guy like social status depending on beginning items, and where you start and a specific start quest with a optonal tutorial. That could use alot of tweaking though.
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Claudia Cook
 
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Post » Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:48 am

Arena-Jagar Tharn, your enemy, put you there. You are not necessarily a criminal

Morrowind-The emperor sent you in this prison ship with the suspicion of you being the Nerevarine. You are not necessarily a criminal.

Oblivion-"Perhaps the gods have placed you here so that we may meet." You are not necessarily a criminal.

In a world full of magic and divine intervention, it's easy to make up a background of any kind.

Well maybe I should've just spoken for myself because I really didn't mind having the prison intro, I sort of actually liked it. I was just saying maybe having an intro in the next game that promotes more of a freedom for the background of your character would be cool. Though if you are creative enough you can think of many reasons why your character would be in prison. That's at least what I did when I first played each game.

Also no more tutorial dungeons, those get really old really fast (and yes I do have a save at the end of the sewers in Oblivion).
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Aman Bhattal
 
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