If the goal was to make a MQ I never want to finish,good job : Fallout 4

» Mon Dec 07, 2015 3:09 pm

Omfg yes!!! OP read my mind, like seriously. The sad part is all of these groups are in disagreement except maybe the brotherhood who are being destroyed by Maxon. I wish Lyons was still in charge, he would have negotiated at least.

Spoiler

On top of the fact that everything "bad" about the institute is a complete with lie the exception of the replacement of the Dad of Warwick Homestead and Diamond Cities Mayor which im not sure if Shaun knows or approves of due to his distaste for the outside world. All so called "kidnappings" are memory wiped synths and coursers sent to recapture them unaware of the mem wipe. Everytime they reach out theyre treated as the bad guys. Synths were meant to be a defense and labor force. The railroad not understanding what they're doing are releasing dangerous beings into the world ignoring the consequences. Brotherhood does have a right to fear what they do but they're too extreme under Maxon. Sad truth is, if they all sat down with peace in mind they could avoid this misunderstanding. This is why im stuck too. Its not so much the lesser of three evils, its more that 1 path you cant follow, displacing Maxon, putting Higgs in charge and Doctor Carrington. Bam Problem solved

» Mon Dec 07, 2015 11:53 am

I feel for you OP. There were so many instances where I wanted the option to say something that actually fit into the context and the option just wasn't there, plus the options you were given just made absolutely no sense. I can't pin point which conversations I've had that were bothersome and annoying, but I'm fairly certain the most annoying sequences were always with Elder Maxson. The quest where you have to hunt down Dance especially. That dialogue sequence between you and Dance(if you side with the brotherhood) was so painstakingly awkward that I almost just left him there to do the deed himself. All I wanted to do was send him away, or even use a "shutdown" code on him to send him back to the Institute, but nope. I feelz.

» Mon Dec 07, 2015 10:21 pm

I know I put off finishing the main quest because it closes so many doors for you when you finally get to the point where you have to chose a side.

» Mon Dec 07, 2015 11:34 am

You can save Danse and side with the institute. You have to have decent CHA to persuade Maxson but it can be done.

» Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:45 am

How? Aren't you locked out from the institute after mass fusion? isn't that quest after Mass Fusion?

Also if i side with the institute what will happen to Deacon same if I go brotherhood will i be able to keep X6 and deacon?

» Mon Dec 07, 2015 11:56 am

Dense' quest it tied to how far along you are with the brotherhood quest chain, and that occurs before the deciding point at mass fusion where you have to chose. If you're at the insitute's mass fusion quest, stop there and do BoS quests til you get to their side of Mass fusion, Danse's quest will open up along that line.

» Mon Dec 07, 2015 11:56 am

Who starts it? I hope its not Maxon cause all he says is give the hallow tape to the power armor chick with no legs and she already left to the Mass Fusion quest before me

» Mon Dec 07, 2015 10:28 am

Are you talking about Blind Betrayal? You can remove Danse from the Brotherhood, but if you destroy the BoS as part of the quest chain for Institute, you can no longer talk to Danse. You can only open up his trade menu.

» Mon Dec 07, 2015 2:00 pm

I pretty much feel the same way OP and I don't think I will ever finish the game either. To me the whole "no good choice" thing can work but it has to be done well and the story has to be compelling and for me Fallout 4's story just wasn't. At the point each faction wants you to completely slaughter the other factions, I just didn't identify with any of them. I felt none of them were fleshed out enough for me to fully get behind. I also feel like once I found Shaun I had no reason to be involved with any of the factions any more.

» Mon Dec 07, 2015 11:14 pm

By the time the Minutemen wanted me to destroy the Institute, they had launched a full offensive on the Castle - which was just icing on the cake of replacing people with synth infiltrators, wiping out entire settlements like University Point, and (although this isn't really known to anyone but us) creating the strain of Super Mutants that plague the Commonwealth. And the Minutemen will hate you if you go through their Nuclear Option without evacuating the "civilian" scientists. The Railroad's main purpose is to oppose the Institute and save their synths, and the only reason Elder Maxson comes to the Commonwealth is to wipe out the Institute completely, so I don't see how brokering a peace with them would be feasible.

» Mon Dec 07, 2015 5:59 pm

It's far more interesting than the main quest of the previous Fallout game. It needs improvement still though.

» Mon Dec 07, 2015 12:33 pm

Err it was a treaty between House and the NCR. Not the BoS that was cut.

» Mon Dec 07, 2015 11:48 pm

You HAVE a treaty with NCR at the end.

» Mon Dec 07, 2015 5:46 pm

No, it was definitely the BOS treaty. There was originally going to be an option to tell House that you were a member of the Brotherhood (if you had completed their questline) and to ask him to resolve the situation diplomatically. But it was cut.

As far as I know there was never going to be an NCR/House treaty other than what was presented at the end of game. I.e. the Order of Withdraw. But I could be mistaken.

» Mon Dec 07, 2015 2:11 pm

Yeah, that kind of lacks a big epic Boom Boom sadly and you need those in Fallout.

» Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:09 am

You are,

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Offer_to_permit_annexation

There's even dialog of citizens remarking that House gave into the NCR.

» Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:02 am

There's also a cut treaty with the BOS and House.

» Mon Dec 07, 2015 8:22 pm

Interesting, I didn't know about that.

Kinda seems odd that House would agree to those terms, but I suppose that's why it was cut.

» Mon Dec 07, 2015 10:36 am

Maybe in the original ending, you could cut his power without killing him.

» Mon Dec 07, 2015 2:44 pm

Agreed. The storyline is also just plain stupid to boot.

» Mon Dec 07, 2015 2:55 pm

He retains control of the Strip and all the possible income that could provide which he can use to further his goals. I think it was cut in order to make the NCR less reasonable. House even says in the game we have now the problem is the NCR wants to take the strip from him.

» Mon Dec 07, 2015 2:01 pm

Spoiler

Just because you become leader of the institute, it doesn't mean you can completely change everything they do right then and there. I could see that option in the game....It would go something like this. (Keep in mind the game would have to be changed so that Shaun died before you completely take out the BOS and whoever else you take out....)

Shaun dies, you take over. At the first meeting, you choose to cease all hostilities against the BoS and contact the Railroad. With a forceful demeanor you tell everyone in the room that the institute will no longer act as it has in the past, now your organization, under your leadership, will help the people in the commonwealth, your technology will be used to make everyones lives better, any synth who wishes to leave the institute will be free to do so. That's right around the time 4 or 5 different people in the room pull out laser pistols, plasma pistols, and 10mm's and blow your ass away.

The institute is what it is. No one person is going to change it over night. Period. No one person is going to change it at all. Shaun was not a evil leader in the institute, he did the best he could with what he had. His only other option was to stand aside and let others lead. And what they did he would have no control of at all.

Being a leader is like sailing a very large boat. You have control of the rudder, you can control the direction it goes up to a point. You cannot make that boat stop dead in it's tracks and take another path. You cannot instantly do a 180 from what you've been doing. The speech you give to the commonwealth is the beginning of you turning the rudder. The destruction beforehand is just that, stuff that happens BEFORE you have the rudder.

At least, that's how I recall it in my institute playthrough. Of course. That playthrough was of a mother finding her son. She would have forgiven anything of him once she found him and followed him anywhere, even into the depths of hell. She gladly followed his lead and destroyed the BoS, she warned the Minutemen only because she could do so and still follow her son's wishes.

Mothers are strange that way.

My male playthrough ran a bit differently, he saw what Shaun had joined and put a round in his head.