The Godhead... : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:00 am

Before I even start, let me tell you that I have used the search function, and I found http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=737957&hl=godhead thread. While it did answer some of my questions concerning the Godhead, it did not answer them all, and that is what brought me to create this thread.

Now, let me first quote a certain post from that thread,

Suppose you are dreaming.

The characters in the dream conspire to keep you from ever waking up again, because every time you wake up, you destroy them, and their world. They succeed, and you are trapped in the false dream reality of your own mind. They do this, by preventing you from manifesting as yourself within the dream, thus denying you the ability to end the narrative. This creates a universe of what is truely nothing, but still has actors-- and has a missing hole at the center-- the hole is the void left by the missing dreamer.

You are unable to fully manifest, but you manifest sufficiently to produce another dream character, that carries a viral counter-plan that can lead to the production of your new dream avatar. The selfish dream actors fall for it at first, and become trapped-- but at the last moment, they pull out on the plan, and impose rules to try to prevent the full and proper manifestation of the "new man" (the dreamer)-- They do this by deconstructing every potential dreamer, and insisting outright that every potential dreamer should be consumed and broken down.

Vivec cheated by following the trail from the virus carrying dream actor back to the rim of the crippled true dreamer's mind- and realized the missing hole that needs to be filled. As long as that hole remains unfilled, the dreamer cannot awaken, and the selfish dream actors will persist.

Now. From this, and from various other posts, I have established that the godhead is actually me, or rather you... us.

Right, so here's the question. If the Godhead is the person playing the TES game, is it unique to that game. I mean to say, when I play a TES game, am I the Godhead, and just me, or is everyone who is playing at that moment the Godhead?

Don't go to hard on me, please :cold: ...

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:29 pm

imo, bringing the player into the anology only confuses the whole thing. the Godhead is the singular entity whose dreams become everything in tamriel, and he is sepparete from the player. after all, most of TES is not our imaginings but the combined musings of dozens of developers. not sure if youve read the sermons and the loveletter, but they will definitely help.

sorry for short post, gota run. have fresh oatmeal cookies waiting for me :cookie:

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:09 pm

I ARE ALL WE

The Godhead is both seperate from and one with the player character, and indeed all beings. This means all player characters too, in all games. Depending on how far you take things, it could also mean all possible player characters, though that's for next kalpa's episode.

The Godhead is ALL, and is more than just an entity. The staggering complexity and strangeness of its mind, in as far as 'mind' even applies, makes it undefinable by mortals, not least because trying to do so would be like trying to pour an ocean into a thimble.

Don't forget that even the rules of logic are just a mutable child subset of the Godhead.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:43 am

The Godhead is both seperate from and one with the player character, and indeed all beings. This means all player characters too, in all games. Depending on how far you take things, it could also mean all possible player characters, though that's for next kalpa's episode.

The Godhead is ALL, and is more than just an entity. The staggering complexity and strangeness of its mind, in as far as 'mind' even applies, makes it undefinable by mortals, not least because trying to do so would be like trying to pour an ocean into a thimble.

But is it also an entity both seperate and one with us, not our player characters. I mean to say, is its definition all those who have played a TES game, and all characters therein (including the characters that aren't said persons player character, e.g the NPCs) and it's mind a combination of all the persona's of all the people who have played, and by extension, all the player characters and NPCs within the TES games?

Or is it as Lady Nerevar said, a completely different being from the player?

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:15 pm

I am the Godhead, you are all WE.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:48 am

A pertinent question here is "what is the game? And did I/we/you ever stop playing it?"

Okay, two questions.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:26 pm

A pertinent question here is "what is the game? And did I/we/you ever stop playing it?"

It stops with the power button.

I ARE ALL WE: Instructing us to find an Eternal Identity (I) inside the Void, outside the AE (ALL WE) and away from its conventions. The Loveletter would remind you to reach through the void, left by Lorkhan's failed display of "might not in a world of impossibility", to the Tower (Eternal "I"), where it is safe and unyeiling to the conventions of AE, by Love. Love for those who share that "I" will preserve them from the Landfall (mortality of man).

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:13 am

A pertinent question here is "what is the game? And did I/we/you ever stop playing it?"

I don't understand why you've asked those questions, but I will try to answer them anyway,

The game is a universe portrayed to us through use of media. As Hoon Ding said, it stops when you press quit, or shutdown.

ARE ALL WE: Instructing us to find an Eternal Identity (I) inside the Void, outside the AE (ALL WE) and away from its conventions. The Loveletter would remind you to reach through the void, left by Lorkhan's failed display of "might not in a world of impossibility", to the Tower (Eternal "I"), where it is safe and unyeiling to the conventions of AE, by Love. Love for those who share that "I" will preserve them from the Landfall (mortality of man).

The Eternal I. CHIM. What does this have to do with my question. I know CHIM is tied to the subject of the Godhead, as it is tied to everything, but I don't believe it answers my question. Or perhaps it does, and I simply don't have the knowledge to understand it...

Those who do not fail become the New Men: an individual beyond all AE, unerased and all-being. Jumping beyond the last bridge of all existence is the Last Existence, The Eternal I.

You are unable to fully manifest, but you manifest sufficiently to produce another dream character, that carries a viral counter-plan that can lead to the production of your new dream avatar. The selfish dream actors fall for it at first, and become trapped-- but at the last moment, they pull out on the plan, and impose rules to try to prevent the full and proper manifestation of the "new man" (the dreamer)-- They do this by deconstructing every potential dreamer, and insisting outright that every potential dreamer should be consumed and broken down.

Hm, those who do not fail to fully manifest themselves (What? Start playing the game?) become the 'New Men'... Or is that a completely of?

I think I understand it now anyway, but the post of my revelation will have to come later. Because right now, I need to leave for school.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:13 am

It gets messy like that when you involve players or developers. This is a state that only the selfish "dream actors" of Mundus can partake in.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:50 am

It gets messy like that when you involve players or developers. This is a state that only the dream actors can partake in.

So, the Godhead only encompasses those within the Aurbis?

But then, Wierd and Proweler have both said that the players are also the Godhead; or at least a part of it.

Suppose you are dreaming.

The characters in the dream conspire to keep you from ever waking up again, because every time you wake up, you destroy them, and their world. They succeed, and you are trapped in the false dream reality of your own mind. They do this, by preventing you from manifesting as yourself within the dream, thus denying you the ability to end the narrative. This creates a universe of what is truely nothing, but still has actors-- and has a missing hole at the center-- the hole is the void left by the missing dreamer.

I am the Godhead, you are all WE.

Of course, I understand there will be conflicting opinions. Is there even a definitive answer to what it actually is? Rather, is there a definitive answer concerning what it is made up of. Meaning, is it as you say, and only made of the 'dream actors' or is it as Proweler and Wierd say, and made up of the player as well. Or is it not actually known?

By the way, thanks for all the replies. I really enjoy discussions such as this, but have been to shy to create a thread, in the Lore forum, until now.

Thanks for being friendly :foodndrink:

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:27 am

No problem, its just that you are still looking at a body of fiction, and applying the avenue of escape to anything beyond the "start game button" doesn't jive well with me.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:07 am

No problem, its just that you are still looking at a body of fiction, and applying the avenue of escape to anything beyond the "start game button" doesn't jive well with me.

Is it not true that any sense of reality in a work of fiction is bestowed upon it by the author and readers?

Why shouldn't the same apply to a game?

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:56 am

A pertinent question here is "what is the game? And did I/we/you ever stop playing it?"

Hey, you just made me lose!

On a serious note...I think it's an interesting thought, and given the Easter eggs throughout, I wouldn't say it's impossible.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:56 am

[size=1]

So, the Godhead only encompasses those within the Aurbis?

But then, Wierd and Proweler have both said that the players are also the Godhead; or at least a part of it.

The Godhead is, essentially, the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ultimate. The concept of a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiverse%5b/url comes into play when the player is pulled into the Godhead idea.

The "+player" argument runs that the Godhead, AE, is all things and all things are it, and it's beyond any kind of limiting definition. So if one were to say "well it can't include the player", then what one is trying to describe can't be the Absolute, since a thing that doesn't include the player that would be a lesser and less-encompassing thing than one that does. The Godhead is by definition the largest, all-encompassing thing in reality. That includes the imaginary and the possible as well as the actual - though these are all at best blurry definitions in TES. (and arguably in RL too, though that's for another day)

As mentioned, the Godhead is not something that's really comprehensible. Time, logic, physical existence, all the things that make up the familiar world - all these things come from finite, far lesser beings (Aedra, Daedra) and the Godhead isn't bound by these things (or indeed anything). Basically, it doesn't need to make logical sense to people.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:31 am

Dude, just stop questioning it. you ARE ALL WE.
Imagine dreaming a dream in which you have no character. Yes, it's hard. But then, you slowly begin to associate yourself with one of the other characters, and voila. You are one with him. CHIM.
When true CHIM happens, the dreamer wakes up. What does happen to dream when the dreamer awakens? We will find out, one day.
And to answer your question, i personally believe that everyone is Godhead. They are all parts of him, but Godhead has troubles associating them with himself. Someone who achieves CHIM is supposed to be the manifestation of Godhead's awareness.