The gods in skyrim : V

» Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:41 am

im a long time player of the elder scrolls starting with daggerfall morrowind oblivion and now skyirm and the thing that has always bugged me are the gods they dont seem very godlike if you ask me

What are they even around for...only deadra seam to do anything"maybe not good things but still do things" i mean when the oblivion crisis was going down why dont any of the gods care or try and stop it?
not to mention they can die just like any other mortal it would seam daedric princess seam to be the real gods .....now maybe i missed something big that explains this but i would like to see a more influential GODS system in the game

i only ask this because i finished the mournhold expansion and was amazed and kinda pissed when i had to kill almalexia!

» Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:29 am

im a long time player of the elder scrolls starting with daggerfall morrowind oblivion and now skyirm and the thing that has always bugged me are the gods they dont seem very godlike if you ask me

What are they even around for...only deadra seam to do anything"maybe not good things but still do things" i mean when the oblivion crisis was going down why dont any of the gods care or try and stop it?
not to mention they can die just like any other mortal it would seam daedric princess seam to be the real gods .....now maybe i missed something big that explains this but i would like to see a more influential GODS system in the game

i only ask this because i finished the mournhold expansion and was amazed and kinda pissed when i had to kill almalexia!

They didn't do anything in the Oblivion Crisis? Are you forgetting it was Akatosh that kicked Mehrunes Dagons ass back to Oblivion?

Also, you could kill the Tribunal and Dagoth Ur because they were simply mortals who used the Heart of Lorkhan to gain power, once you took the Heart out of the picture they were powerless and mortal once more. So therefore, not true gods. :3

» Sat Jun 11, 2011 3:35 am

It would be cool if you could choose which God you wanted to serve in Skyrim, and if you prayed or offered sacrifices at certain temples to certain Gods, then you would be blessed with different unique perks.

» Sat Jun 11, 2011 4:00 am

My lore is a tad rusty, but I'm pretty sure the Aedra cannot interact with the world, only the Daedra can

» Sat Jun 11, 2011 7:02 am

im a long time player of the elder scrolls starting with daggerfall morrowind oblivion and now skyirm and the thing that has always bugged me are the gods they dont seem very godlike if you ask me

What are they even around for...only deadra seam to do anything"maybe not good things but still do things" i mean when the oblivion crisis was going down why dont any of the gods care or try and stop it?
not to mention they can die just like any other mortal it would seam daedric princess seam to be the real gods .....now maybe i missed something big that explains this but i would like to see a more influential GODS system in the game

i only ask this because i finished the mournhold expansion and was amazed and kinda pissed when i had to kill almalexia!

This is probably harsh but when natural disasters happen, and people die, does (holds up religious debate daedra shield) God do anything about it?
Gods don't really seem to do anything in the mortal world. You know what, I wouldn't mind seing some Atheism in skyrim tbh. Its realistic.

» Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:45 am

im a long time player of the elder scrolls starting with daggerfall morrowind oblivion and now skyirm and the thing that has always bugged me are the gods they dont seem very godlike if you ask me

What are they even around for...only deadra seam to do anything"maybe not good things but still do things" i mean when the oblivion crisis was going down why dont any of the gods care or try and stop it?
not to mention they can die just like any other mortal it would seam daedric princess seam to be the real gods .....now maybe i missed something big that explains this but i would like to see a more influential GODS system in the game

i only ask this because i finished the mournhold expansion and was amazed and kinda pissed when i had to kill almalexia!

This may be better answered in the Lore section.
Broadly, I thought the Aedra were the foundation of the mortal realm itself. We have the Nine to thank for TES !

» Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:20 pm

well to me they had their use. free cure disease lol. but after a while you find so many potions it just becomes useless

» Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:32 am

My lore is a tad rusty, but I'm pretty sure the Aedra cannot interact with the world, only the Daedra can

~~Tiber Septim~~ Talos visited the Nerevarine in human form right before you went to Red Mountain to kill Dagoth Ur in Morrowind. (Well, he may have. It depends on whether you stopped at ghostgate or not)

» Sat Jun 11, 2011 2:21 am

My lore is a tad rusty, but I'm pretty sure the Aedra cannot interact with the world, only the Daedra can

Of course the Aedra can, they did so several times in TES, like in Morrowind when you meet Talos on the sly under the guise of Wulf.

» Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:18 am

My lore is a tad rusty, but I'm pretty sure the Aedra cannot interact with the world, only the Daedra can

Technically correct I guess.
To an extent the Aedra "died' when they created Nirn. They actually sacrificed parts of themselves to create the mortal realm. They do exists still as part of Nirn. So kinda hard to be influential.
They can still be contacted, but not act apon Nirn.

Akatosh is the exception to this rule. He simply exists on Nirn. He is what holds it all together IIRC. Or thats how I've interpreted the Lore in any case. Happy to be corrected.

Talos isn't an Aedra either. He's just an ascended spirit.

» Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:41 am

it would seam daedric princess seam to be the real gods .....

And many would agree with you.

» Sat Jun 11, 2011 2:00 am

My lore is a tad rusty, but I'm pretty sure the Aedra cannot interact with the world, only the Daedra can

Yes and no. In a sense, the Aedra are the world, having given of their divine essences to create Mundus.

That said, they can interact directly with Tamriel and Mundus, albeit not usually in quite so...dramatic a way as the Daedric Princes, whose powers were never compromised by taking part in the creation of the physical planes. That doesn't prevent the Aedra from being plenty powerful enough to influence the fates of lesser beings, and even occasionally manifest themselves directly (the most obvious example being Akatosh's royal ass-whuppin' of Dagon, but lesser examples being Mara appearing to the Nerevarine in the form of Ama Nin and Kynareth's creation of the Crusader's Relics).

» Sat Jun 11, 2011 3:08 am

Are you forgetting it was Akatosh that kicked Mehrunes Dagons ass back to Oblivion?

Avatar of Akatosh*

» Sat Jun 11, 2011 4:52 am

The Aedra are gods as much as the Daedra are.
The Aedra are gods in the pantheistic sense and are the dead creators of the mortal realm.
The daedra aren't even from the same realm, and the "Old Ways," IIRC, suggest that there are simply lesser and greater spirits, not really "gods" because they are all et'ada or some shizz. . .

» Sat Jun 11, 2011 6:35 am

Meh, well you interact with Mara in Morrowind in the form of Ama Nin so nerrr

» Sat Jun 11, 2011 3:34 am

Yes and no. In a sense, the Aedra are the world, having given of their divine essences to create Mundus.

That said, they can interact directly with Tamriel and Mundus, albeit not usually in quite so...dramatic a way as the Daedric Princes, whose powers were never compromised by taking part in the creation of the physical planes. That doesn't prevent the Aedra from being plenty powerful enough to influence the fates of lesser beings, and even occasionally manifest themselves directly (the most obvious example being Akatosh's royal ass-whuppin' of Dagon, but lesser examples being Mara appearing to the Nerevarine in the form of Ama Nin and Kynareth's creation of the Crusader's Relics).

Akatosh didn't sacrifice himself to create Nirn as the other Aedra did though. The other Aedra were conned into doing so by the Daedroth Lorkhan. (I think Daedroth is correct, he's a Padomanic or some such, not of Anu like the Aedra. Daedroth were created from the blood of Padomay for those who don't know. Not 100% sure on the Aedra, they came from Anu somehow I think.)

» Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:21 am

Akatosh didn't sacrifice himself to create Nirn as the other Aedra did though. The other Aedra were conned into doing so by the Daedroth Lorkhan. (I think Daedroth is correct, he's a Padomanic or some such, not of Anu like the Aedra.)

Isn't that the result of the Imperials messing with Akatosh and his elven aspects and such?

» Sat Jun 11, 2011 12:05 am

I think TeS his Gods are doing fine it's not D&D the time of troubles when the Gods where cast out from the skies to walk amongst mortals .... Actually I believe I have played tabletop games where there is even less interaction between mortals and Gods ....

» Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:04 pm

Isn't that the result of the Imperials messing with Akatosh and his elven aspects and such?

I don't believe so.

The other Aedra actually self sacrificed in order to create Nirn. So basically when you're walking on the grass, you're walking on Mara (I think thats the right one) etc etc. Akatosh is like the protector of it all. He Is actually still there. But due to the nature of his existence he takes on avatars so as to not obliterate most things in creation. I made that last bit up to help explain my opinion.

» Sat Jun 11, 2011 7:35 am

The only source that says Lorkhan is a Daedra is Mankor Cameron and I wouldn't count his word as canon since he believed that Meridias realm is Coldharbour when it was the Coloured Rooms. :3

He's definitely Padomaic though.

» Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:47 am

I don't believe so.

The other Aedra actually self sacrificed in order to create Nirn. So basically when you're walking on the grass, you're walking on Mara (I think thats the right one) etc etc. Akatosh is like the protector of it all. He Is actually still there. But due to the nature of his existence he takes on avatars so as to not obliterate most things in creation. I made that last bit up to help explain my opinion.

What a wonderful explanation. I can only hope you're right. Do you have any references in game?

» Sat Jun 11, 2011 1:09 am

The only source that says Lorkhan is a Daedra is Mankor Cameron and I wouldn't count his word as canon since he believed that Meridias realm is Coldharbour when it was the Coloured Rooms. :3

He's definitely Padomaic though.

Well I think to be more accurate his is a god to the Daedroth?

He is higher then the Daedric princes so to say?

» Fri Jun 10, 2011 11:38 pm

Akatosh didn't sacrifice himself to create Nirn as the other Aedra did though. The other Aedra were conned into doing so by the Daedroth Lorkhan. (I think Daedroth is correct, he's a Padomanic or some such, not of Anu like the Aedra. Daedroth were created from the blood of Padomay for those who don't know. Not 100% sure on the Aedra, they came from Anu somehow I think.)

Aedra and Daedra are for all intents and purposes identical, except in how they align themselves. Aedra are Anu-aligned et'Ada who gave themselves partially or completely to create Mundus, while Daedra are Padomay-aligned et'Ada who were selfihs bastards.

The two borderline exceptions are Lorkhan and Akatosh. Lorkhan isn't exactly an Aedra or a Daedra so much as just a primal force for change. In a lot of ways, he's more like the direct manifestation of Padomay than anything else--he's not aligned with Padomay so much as he figuratively is Padomay. Akatosh, for his part, is definitely an Aedra, but he didn't quite share the "death" of the other Aedra during the creation of Mundus, given that he willingly flung his entire spirit into Mundus and infused the entirety of the physical plane with his essence. This explains why, despite being an Aedric spirit and therefore not able to regularly manifest in any direct sense like the Daedric Princes can, Akatosh is still much more powerful than the other Aedric spirits. He literally is Mundus--he binds it together, stabilizes it, and as long as it exists, he exists. It's sort of like how various people in the Shivering Isles mention that "Sheogorath is the Realm"...for his part, Akatosh is Mundus, the embodiment of its structure, stability, and vital essence.

...Ye gods, this all sounds horribly dorky.

» Sat Jun 11, 2011 1:30 am

What a wonderful explanation. I can only hope you're right. Do you have any references in game?

This is from the wiki

Time Begins
Akatosh appears in the void of formless Aurbis and imposes his regulation of existence upon the universe. Many et'ada recognizable to modern mortals begin to coagulate.
Nirn is conceived
A Padomaic being named Lorkhan envisions the creation of a new kind of divinity: a planet called Nirn. This realm will fulfill the urges of his sphere by serving as a construct that will allow him to achieve ultimate liberty- Nu-Mantia.
Aedra and Daedra
Lorkhan convinces the modern Aedra and other Anu-aligned spirits to give of themselves and aid in Creation. Magnus will serve as the new world's architect. A collection of prominent Padomaic spirits reject his proposals and decide to create worlds using only their own divinities. They are now known as Daedric Princes. After several millennia have passed, a particularly powerful Daedric Prince, Jyggalag, is cursed by his peers to become Sheogorath, the embodiment of his sphere's polar opposite.
Creation
The Mundus is formed, the hub of the wheel that is Aurbis, and most of its creators die or are crippled by their sacrifices. They exist as shadows of their former selves. The new land is a chaotic place where time follows no clear path and creation is constant, following a downward spiral that causes levels of existence to create lesser levels beneath themselves. This results in the dissolution of many spirits and the creation of mortals, whose memories from this time result in their creation myths.
Discord
Magnus and his followers, the Magna Ge, perceive the trap that is the Mundus and abandon their creation. They flee, ripping holes in the sky in their desperate departure to Aetherius. The sun and stars now allow magic. The Twelve Worlds of Creation flourish.
Convention
Akatosh sees the trap as well, but does not flee.[citation needed] Instead, he throws himself into Mundus. His capsule lands in what will become the Isle of Balfiera in High Rock and becomes known as Adamantine Tower, the world's oldest structure. His full presence causes all spirits and chaotic forms of creation to crystallize, and time becomes linear and ordered. This is the end of the Dawn Era. He calls a council of the gods and the Aedra elect to punish Lorkhan. Trinimac tears Lorkhan's heart from his briast and flings it far into the eastern world, where it lands as a fiery meteor to form the Red Mountain and Vvardenfell - the Star-Wounded East.
Mortals
The development of mortals now follows slow, comprehensible paths. The diverse people of Tamriel become the Mer (Elves): The Dwemer (Deep Ones), the Chimer (Changed Ones), the Bosmer (Green or Forest Ones), and the Altmer (Elder or High Ones). The fracturing of the Aldmer along cultural and racial lines is the Sundering of Aldmeris, and the continent no longer exists. The other Ehlnofey became the Hist, beasts, and the humans of Nirn, who will eventually split into racial groups, including the Nedes, Nords, and Tamriellic Aboriginals, as well as the Redguards of Yokuda.

» Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:16 am

Well I think to be more accurate his is a god to the Daedroth?

He is higher then the Daedric princes so to say?

I always thought of Lorkhan to be outside the boundaries of the Aedra and Daedra. Heck, those terms only came to light after the creation of Mundus.

The best way to describe it is that Lorkhan is an Et'Ada, nothing more. :3