The Gore/Nudity Suggestion & Concensus : V - Skyrim

» Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:26 am

I'm for anything being in a game. I don't feel this concept of morals should apply to what is put in a GAME. ANYTHING should be put in a game, no restrictions - complete openness. And I want to see everything considered 'immoral' to be put in the game because it would be interesting to see the progression to where people no longer think through conditionings and reflex/emotional/feeling-based thinking. I'd like to see culture advance forwards to the infinity of consciousness towards where people start unadhering themselves from negative-regression adherences. Reality will become known on a collective level that it is infinite and unbounded.

That was... quite surreal. Entertaining, but most certainly surreal.

It is important to remember that this is, after all, just a GAME - as you mentioned, in fact. Not the battleground for psychobabble armchair revolutions, necessarily. Or at least, not automatically, one might hope.

edit: Alternatively, IHBT. :blush:

» Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:01 pm

Hmmm.

I will state my preferences, but I'm in favor of options for those who don't agree with me.

Personally, I would like to see some fairly dramatic gore in my Conan-esque, Norse-mythology-inspired, M-rated game. I voted "Yes, but limited," because I don't want to see things like bodies completely exploding into pieces or blood splattered all over the walls of an inn like someone was just explosively depressurized. I think beyond a certain point it can actually detract from the game and become about those graphical effects instead of the game itself. But to a degree, I'd like it to be more advanced and randomized or chance based than Oblivion, in terms of what happens during combat. Dismemberment I wouldn't mind. Blood, flaying, beheading, etc. I wouldn't mind. Definitely stuff at least as graphic as some of the Dark Brotherhood quest content in Oblivion, but with the new engine of course. None of that is must-have for me. It's what I'd like, but I can live without it.

As for nudity, I'm pretty indifferent. I think it can be used well, and I don't mind if I see it. It might be nice under the right circumstances. If it's not in, I don't mind that either. I would welcome a bit more overt sixuality from some characters, however. Not in a tawdry or expressly sixual way mind you. Just in an advlt, mature, non-PG sense. But it isn't a deal-breaker for me or on my list of features I really, really want.

But as I said, I'm in favor of options, so I wold like there to be an option to disable the gore and/or nudity (should they be present) for those who don't want it in their game. That isn't going to be detrimental to my experience in the game.

At the end of the day, I just want a huge, rich, moving world and story with memorable characters, and a powerful sense of history, culture, lore depth, and gravitas. (And lots of books.) How they go about achieving that, I don't really care. They may surprise me and give me a game completely different from what I'm imagining. As long as those things are in though, I won't care.

You sir, have taken my opinion straight out of my mind and placed it here before me. Therefor I can only assume you are from the future, and quite possibly a scientist with awesome hair and a love for DeLorean's.

Edit* (thought of something to add.)

I'm not trying to get all philosophical here, but it always astonishes me how we, meaning Americans. Treat nudity as this horrible unnatural thing, when it's actually the complete opposite. And of course, when games and moves try to do It. It usually seems tacked on, or it's treated as this shock value or :drool: type deal.
Then you have games and movies that get it right(ish) like Daggerfall for instance. A dark seducer, note the word seducer. Should have a bit of nudity going on. It just makes sense. Another example of nudity in a place where it makes sense, albeit over the top, is the Lust circle of hell in Dante's Inferno. That level wouldn't have made any sense if there was zero nudity in it. And finally the example of Mass Effect. I didn't expect that moment to happen but when it did I thought BioWare handled it fairly well. Now, that mass effect reference implies I'm suggesting six, to clarify I am not in anyway.

Nudity isn't a selling point for me, neither is gore. I just feel like they should be, where they should be. Finishers with certain weapons should be pretty gory. And certain places should have nudity. For example, Molag Bal and Sanguine. The latter is all about partying and having six, the former is known as the king of [censored]. It would make sense for them to have some nudity going on with their followers and their statues. :shrug:

» Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:29 am

I would like increased gore in Skyrim, yes. I agree that Fallout 3 level of gore is a little extreme for the Elder Scrolls, but I would at least like to see some sort of wounding effect, even if it's just a decal that dissappears after a time. No permanent scars though, as tha means permanently changing the appearance of my character after character creation due to things not of my choosing, if they don't dissappear on their own, than any visual indication of your injuries should go away once they're healed. Scars should, however, be something you can give yourself in character creation. I also want to see a bit more blood and, most importantly, blood decals should stick around much longer than in Oblivion.

If dismemberment does occur, it should be determined by the type of weapon you're using, and the actual damage you do, because you shouldn't be able to decapitate someone with a dagger. And the chance of dismembering a target should depend on how hard you hit.

As to options for gore, it would seem unnecessary to me, I'm sure I'll just be setting it to the highest gore level possible, but if that would please some people, then I guess more options can't hurt.

As for nudity, I wouldn't actually mind it in the game, personally, so long as it was used well, by which I mean to say, used in a way that actually serves to enhance the feel of the game in some way, nut just for fanservice, in the end, if I want pormography, I really don't need a comercial game to get that. But at this time, it's probably wiser for Bethesda to just avoid doing nudity, and leave it up to modders. And as long as the game supports this kind of mod, replacing the in-game body models with nvde versions is far from beyond what modders can do. I don't really trust the "Video games are evil!" crowd not to use the presence of nudity in the unmodded game against Skyrim at this time.

» Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:56 pm

As for nudity, I wouldn't actually mind it in the game, personally, but at this time, it's probably wiser for Bethesda to just avoid doing nudity, and leave it up to modders. And as long as the game supports this kind of mod, replacing the in-game body models with nvde versions is far from beyond what modders can do. I don't really trust the "Video games are evil!" crowd not to use the presence of nudity in the unmodded game against Skyrim at this time.

Yes, quite.

Why go stirring the crazies, who are already, um, stir crazy...? :shifty:

As for gore, that is much more societally acceptable, for whatever reasons, in the countries that matter most in this context. So yes, I suppose decapitations and all that are not out of the question. :shrug:

» Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:24 am

It's hilarious because nudity isn't even real as people perceive it. It's just a culture concept ingrained from conditioning that makes people believe a nose is somehow different from a 'taboo' part. In reality, they're just different functional body parts but for some odd reason one is acceptable and friendly and the other is non-acceptable and 'sick.' If there wasn't that early age conditioning and beyond, all parts of the body would be perceived equally and normal. And then people wouldn't be having debates over nudity, because it wouldn't exist. It'd be non-existent, and in Skyrim the idea of removing all clothes or looting someone and all their clothes being taken off wouldn't elicit a feeling response of something 'to worry about.' But it's important that game designers start pushing comfort levels already so these empty conditionings can be erased and people start to become aware that reality isn't contained to the social construct by culture, but is rather infinite in extent.

» Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:37 am

I say add the nudity...and make the gore realistic...not like fallout of course...nudity gives a sense of a less civilized people...and enhances the mood for a land of barbaric tribes and people...now i know that Skyrim isn't without kingship...i am simply implying that the Nords are without a doubt barbaric in nature...simply look at age of conan...without nudity...it wouldn't have the right to use the word conan...Conan to me refers to a barbaric nature specifically norse barbarians...so i say gore, language, drinking, gambling, and nudity...from a realistic sense...at least give the option before the game start...similar to modern warfare's terrorist mission option...

» Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:40 am

I feel like The Elder Scrolls series, regardless of how grimdark Skyrim will be, is more of a high fantasy setting, so the amount of gore Oblivion had was just right. I feel like dismemberment is just too much. I like the fact that it's not 100 percent realistic, because it makes me feel like it's still got this sense of wonder to it.

» Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:15 am

Gore, yes.

Nudity, no.

That sort of thing is more suited to people in dingy basemants.

» Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:46 am

six,yeah whatever but no romance please.

» Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:18 am

Doublecheeseburgerpostaccident

» Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:54 am

I don't think there needs to be any more depiction of violence than there was in Oblivion - some blood coming out of hitting someone with a weapon, combined with a little extra in areas like Dagon's plane of Oblivion where it adds to the mood of the place. I could stand wounds appearing on a character if it could be done properly, but I doubt that'd work without locational damage in the mechanics. Anything more would definitely be getting into the gratuitous level.*

As for nudity, I'd rather the perma-underwear went away (it seems kind of silly to me, though I started the series with Daggerfall), but aside from that, and knowing nothing about what's actually in the game, I don't see any need to add in extra nudity that wouldn't already appear from removing said underwear. I wouldn't be bothered too much if it appeared, but... well, I'm going to show a little restraint and not go further, as my opinions on how it's likely to be handled would probably get a flame war started.

*People keep talking about dismemberment. Do you know how hard it is to sever a limb? It's difficult enough to do when the person is helpless or otherwise not fighting back, even with special tools; practically impossible in combat with weapons not designed for doing so. Putting it in would either be unrealisticly common and thus gratuitous, or so extremely rare as to be a waste.

» Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:37 am

People are prudes...

I want sixuality back in TES. My favorite enemy in daggerfall were the seducers. I remembered when I first ran into one I was like "Wow look at this fine thing walking towards me... Oh yeah." Then all of a sudden I was like, "OMG! Kill it, kill!"

Frost nymphs :wub:

As for six, meh...
As for gore, I want visible wounds and screaming.

» Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:32 am

if it does not go extremely over the top with both I am happy.

» Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:02 am

I want realistic gore and dismemberment with no bleeding armor or break away bodies.

» Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:31 am

I am meh, on the gore. A little bit for realism, ok, but I think Oblivion was fine. At first I thought it was lame, but I started to enjoy it, because it doesn't take away from the game. Fallout was cool at first, Bloody Mess was awsome, but I had to start all over again, because it ruined the game experiance for me.

So for a TES game, doesn't need Gore, but maybe just a bit more than Oblivion. Lord of the Rings movies were awsome, and there was hardly any gore at all. Just in FotR where you had a bit of blood spewing out when a head was chopped off, but in the other 2 movies, I didn't notice any of it, and thought it was realistic, so it proves you don't need gore to have an enjoyable visually enticing battle without gore.

Also as a parent, I don't care for it. Fallout was so out of the top and unrealistic I don't worry about the little ones watching it.

» Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:03 pm

People are prudes...

I want sixuality back in TES. My favorite enemy in daggerfall were the seducers. I remembered when I first ran into one I was like "Wow look at this fine thing walking towards me... Oh yeah." Then all of a sudden I was like, "OMG! Kill it, kill!"

Frost nymphs :wub:

As for six, meh...
As for gore, I want visible wounds and screaming.

I don't think people are prudes. Not everyone needs tittular excitement in their games.

I guess for me, being a parent, I don't see TES games as rated M. Maybe Teen maxium. If nudity was in the game, then I couldn't let my son play it, let alone let him watching me play it.

As for nudity in games, I would say, yeah why not? But then those games would have to be rated AO then. Because once you start putting nudity in games, it becomes porm. Simple as that.

» Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:42 am

I'm for anything being in a game. I don't feel this concept of morals should apply to what is put in a GAME. ANYTHING should be put in a game, no restrictions - complete openness. And I want to see everything considered 'immoral' to be put in the game because it would be interesting to see the progression to where people no longer think through conditionings and reflex/emotional/feeling-based thinking. I'd like to see culture advance forwards to the infinity of consciousness towards where people start unadhering themselves from negative-regression adherences. Reality will become known on a collective level that it is infinite and unbounded.

Unfortently me an you are a small bit of the player base so I had to tailor the suggestion ALOT.

But i still can't seem to get it out of peoples heads that I am not suggesting six lol. It's even in the short hand but what ever not that many of them. They know that mod will come out every time anyway.

» Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:30 pm

I don't think people are prudes. Not everyone needs tittular excitement in their games.

I guess for me, being a parent, I don't see TES games as rated M. Maybe Teen maxium. If nudity was in the game, then I couldn't let my son play it, let alone let him watching me play it.

As for nudity in games, I would say, yeah why not? But then those games would have to be rated AO then. Because once you start putting nudity in games, it becomes porm. Simple as that.

Bit radical. ESRB's definition on it is that if there is extended nudity meaning intercourse then it's AO. But, I had to wait to play Elderscrolls. I saw why when I started playing. I don't think I will let my kids bend those rules. But honestly that is your choice as a parent when it comes down to it. I understand what he was saying. He is a veteran player we all miss the way it used to be. But unfortunately we have had to take the back seat since oblivion came out.

» Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:33 am

I don't think people are prudes. Not everyone needs tittular excitement in their games.

I guess for me, being a parent, I don't see TES games as rated M. Maybe Teen maxium. If nudity was in the game, then I couldn't let my son play it, let alone let him watching me play it.

As for nudity in games, I would say, yeah why not? But then those games would have to be rated AO then. Because once you start putting nudity in games, it becomes porm. Simple as that.

Uh, considering the human form as porm is being a prude. I can't see how a naked body is porm. Oh, whatever I don't care, hide away our sixuality, let the children grow up repressed...

» Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:53 am

Relax it's just their opinion. Though I admire your zeal. You know ESRB and I am sure Todd would agree with you in that case though anyway.

» Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:15 pm

I find it funny how some people can love gore, even excessive Saw-esquee gore and be totally unfazed by it. But then in the next moment totally freak out, and cry over lack of morality when they see a woman's mammailial glands 8| That's always baffled me

» Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:42 pm

I find it funny how some people can love gore, even excessive Saw-esquee gore and be totally unfazed by it. But then in the next moment totally freak out, and cry over lack of morality when they see a woman's mammailial glands 8| That's always baffled me

lol maybe some feel a bit inadequate? I don't know. Personally I didn't like saw too weird for my taste lol

» Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:58 am

There are loads of body mods, and the mod makers do much better jobs than the Devs.
Because it upsets people and you are just going to get mods for it anyways, why bother putting it in in the first place?
As for gore, meh. Fallout was exaggerated to say the least. Oblivion was mostly realistic, I wouldn't mind loping of an arm or two, and the occasional beheading wouldn't be to bad either.

» Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:47 am

None for me, thanks. six/ gore doesn't enhance my enjoyment of video games in the least. It usually seems to me to be gratuitous and overwrought, actually decreasing my sense of immersion in the game. However if they do include nudity and graphic violence, I hope they do the right thing and include an option toggle it on or off.

» Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:52 am

Well sorry to say that mods are limited and from the ones I have seen even the top 100 they lack the talent that Bethesda brings to the table. Even though some of the moders are actually on there pay roll. There is only so far you can go with modding. Besides that is a very tired argument your using. People have said that for 10 years and I am afraid your not alone anymore you have ps3, and xbox here with you and they want a say too. It upsets people because they have a specific way they want it done but if it goes in the way it's suggested there really couldn't be any complaints. People moaned and groaned about the hardcoe switch but when it went in it dissipated. Something politicons have learned is people get comfortable with something and once you change even the smallest thing they scream and fight until what's done is done and when they find out what happened actually helped the government or game in this case they stop yelling non sense and apologize. But we are not talking about politics here. We are talking about very plain and simple graphics and how realistic they should be.