First off read a few of these threads to get your bearings. Or just jump right to the question at hand in the short hand version. I am doing this because I want to present a neutral and middle ground where everyone actually wins and not just one side of a triple sided coin. I have seen you guys arguing for almost three days now and not one of the starts topics spent maybe five minutes thinking about how any of it could be implemented. Many just argued about it. Here is the fruit of what I picked out of thousands of characters of information. Please stay on topic and try not to flame each other or else the mods will just close this thread and I spent two hours on it.
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1160070-gore-level/
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1160179-skyrim-more-advlt-game/page__view__findpost__p__17022371__hl__gore__fromsearch__1
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1157509-a-more-graphic-game/page__view__findpost__p__16975750__hl__gore__fromsearch__1
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1156460-dismemberment/page__view__findpost__p__16966471__hl__gore__fromsearch__1

Honestly that could go on forever. As usual I will do a short hand version and a long expanded details. Jump to the short version if you want to skip everything and don't like reading.

-=The Question=-
Would you like to have an upgraded version of Oblivion gore that fits well into the game. Not even thinking about fallout. In other words on finishing moves would you like to dismember at a rare chance based on skill. Would you also like for Gore to be 3 setting's between Light - Intermediate - Maximum, with light being the default. Also an option to turn Blood off completely under the settings would be nice. Thanks Otheral. The suggestions referring to nudity involve no six. six would be considered an A rated game. I did not suggest that. This is to make it clear.

-=Expanded Details=-
I just want to end this for good with an actual good thread with what everyone has been saying that they want. So the suggestion is oriented at giving everyone what they want in the game being that we have the option. Also an option to turn Blood off completely under the settings would be nice. Thanks Otheral.

The consensus that I have seen, is that people do not want to easily chop off limbs, the blood content and gore in the fallout series seemed to be too much at least for the Elder Scrolls. People think that a rare chance of dismemberment would be acceptable on a finishing move. With occasional and realistic wounds not to the level that it is ridiculous. With a small chance for scaring.

Just so we are crystal clear in case anyone didn't know but this is the defition of an M ESRB rating; "Titles rated M (Mature) have content that may be suitable for persons ages 17 and older. Titles in this category may contain intense violence, blood and gore, sixual content and/or strong language."

On that I am going to suggest things based on that. If you do not base them on this premises that everyone finds a middle ground or what the majority want then I will not put it up here. I am sorry.

-=Gore Toggle Levels=-

Gore should be determined at the start by three settings. A warning much like the shooters today do, should provide you with the switch, the very first time the game is started. Much like what modern warfare 2 did because of there extremely graphic content (specifically the car scene.).

-=Realistic Combat Effects=-
-If you are using a weapon above a certain weight it should cause the opponent to react to it in either fear, staggering, or any other acceptable response. By no means should a daderic dy katana not phase a man who is unarmored. That is ridiculous. A dagger will not cut an arm off, but will cause bleeding or trauma on unarmored targets. The level of damage and effect caused should be determined by armor type, defense rating, damage of the weapon, and if it can pierce armor or not.
-If you are using a long bow against heavy armor it should do piercing damage and be extremely harmful. Long bows are credited with the death of the Knights. If you are struck by arrows they would stick in unless you broke the ends off so you couldn't see them right? This was actually done in Morrowind back I believe.
-Magic effects should be very unique. A fire ball would catch leather on fire, melt weak metals, and heat up heavy ones that are not enchanted with some sort of defense. An ice and fire attack would svck the oxygen away from you or make it very hard for you to breath so make it look like your holding your breath on the screen. It wouldn't be for long and is more of an ascetic like much of this is but it's important enough we have talked about it for years. If I use a blind spell the target blinded should at least appear like a blind man would. Loss of coloration in the eye and feeling about scared because he knows he is in danger. If I use levitation I assume it wouldn't appear as if he was walking on flat ground. But honestly never seen someone levitate so I can't say for sure. Magic could take some time to discuss the effects so I will end on the note that you guys should think of what would happen if magic were real and you were hit by fireball or lightning or what ever the spell may be.

-=Scaring=-
Scars should be brought into the game of Elder Scrolls. If say your right arm's armor has completely broken and it gets hit again doing MASSIVE damage depending on your gore level you could develop a small or realistic possibly customizable scar. Scars would be determined by the damage type as well as the amount of damage and where it was. If it is customizable the scars are not unlocked until you have taken the specific prerequisite to get that scar. A scared up level 50 players is the mark of an seasoned veteran who you don't want to mess with.

-=Simulated A.I Emotion=-
This should go in as an improvement to the current one. In fallout NPC's had fear and anger. If there health was half way they would run away, if it was full and you attacked they would be mad. I think if a player uses a heavy weapon on a smaller less experienced player or even if you are being attacked by a big orc with a war hammer, it should simulate the effects of fear. Stamina increase, health decrease, the player has a small chance of making the npc run away or crouch holding there hands over there head in fear. If the player is Mad then Stamina, Health, and Magika should receive a boost. In ether case I recommend developers try to draw the same out of the player playing. Rumble the controler, put heart beat sounds and such to bring the player in. Bethesda games tend to lack emotional draw.


-=What each Level of Gore offers=-

-The basic level would be what is in the topic question. With few exceptions being that there is no longer painted on underwear and you cannot dismember people at all. Underwear should be an undroppable item on the "light" gore level. You should be able to change the underwear and at least add in some comedy about how for 10 years people were wearing the same underwear every day and were possibly born with it hahahaha. Also men have actual chest hair! I mean not all of us like to go hairless. So on customization in the beginning please give us that option.
- Intermediate level should include 50% the gore and possibly mild nudity in an realistic aspect and dismemberment finishing moves are allowed.. Very light wounds show up depending on the aforementioned parameters. The possibility of developing scars comes into play as previously mentioned. Underwear remains undroppable on men and woman but in the event that Bethesda added in romantic sub plots Mass Effect level nudity would be considered mild.
-Maximum level of gore and nudity allowed to an M rated game is shown. Before the setting is put in place an warning appears a lot like a are you sure disclaimer kinda thing. Full nudity is permitted in appropriate places. Public Indecency is a law in skyrim and you would be smart to follow it. :;): Being that you would be charged and arrested by the Nordic town guards if you went streaking just like anywhere else. This should come with colorful quest that take you out of your comfort zone like giving us achievements for the type of thing and ect. If you didn't get the picture. Quest that embarrass you like trying to run a whole quest nvde or something. Remember the one from oblivion the dadric quest where you make everyone take off there cloth's. On that level. The chance of scaring is at max level meaning that if you take huge amounts of damage depending on where it was taken you could form a scar. Your own dismemberment is possible, if you are out matched in a finishing move. Say oblivion you run in and try to fight Umbra and this is in place, well I think I would learn my lesson. IN OTHER WORDS: Maximum Gore releases all possible features to the player based on there preference.

Perhaps more if people like what I have suggested.

"(please explain to help devs)"


lol

Well if you just vote yes but limited. what are you limited to. . . I am trying to be very nice. But wow. :rolleyes:

As I have said in other threads, I dont really care about nudity/six I dont see what it adds to the game: also on the blood/gore I think combat needs to be brutal and unrelenting and there should be a finishing move where you could severe the heads and or limbs in a brutal finisher.

Scarring, I dont really care about either way, it would ve good for immersion if they leave it out I wont complain...

The AI I would like to see realistic emotions, I thin k that will happen with Radient Story and Radient AI this time around.

The blood needs to be put in realisically with the option to turn it off for those that wish to not have it.

Okay, I'm not reading all that so I'll just answer "the question". Honestly the level of gore portrayed in that one screenshot seems just about right. Plenty of blood that looks pretty realistic. Having body parts flying every which way would be excessive and taxing on the developers because they would have to rig every creature model to have detachable body parts. I'd rather they put those resources to use elsewhere.

There should be gore. I see nothing wrong with nudity either but thanks to our society we think killing is better than viewing the body and it's "natural acts". But if the game is going to try and stay away from controversy, only include nudity but no six or else we're going to have more hot coffee on our hands.

Hey whoa there six isn't even in one of my sentences and I don't condier them even remotely close. I consider this acceptable. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNixoKm9T7w

That is the only six I think that is okay though. I don't think we should turn this into that conversation I think you were reading a little too much into it no biggy.

I wouldn't complain if they leave any of it out. I did that once already doesn't help. The light version would be the lightest big of blood you could get. Remember oblivion? it would look like that but not like kool aid on your sword. But agreed I will add that in.

Well if you wanted that you would have to mod it yourself.

Oh forgive me I just had another conversation in another thread on my mind did not mean to cast stones reguarding six at you, I was just trying to clairify how I felt because alot of people tie the two together and I just wanted to voice my opinion, sorry about the mishap.

Also I think we need more blood than Oblivion and there should be realistic damage in Oblivion I could hit something about a hundred to two hundrede times and I felt like nothing was happening there should be realistic blood and damage based on the area you hit.

I think you need another option in your poll.

I would like the gore to be upgraded from Oblivion; however, since this is an M-rated game, I don't see any need for different gore settings, such as light/med/high etc.

I thought Oblivion's gore was great, but there is always room for a little bit more gore, just not as much as FO 3. If it is the same as Oblivion's it will be great. A little more wouldn't hurt though. I'd like to avoid nudity in the game for the most part. They have used nudity in the past but not just for nudity's sake. Like the Seductress had nudity but for obvious reasons, I mean she was a succubus, of course she has to have nudity. But if I wanted nudity just to have nudity, I would go watch a pormo.

I would like a more realistic combat as far as gore is concerned. When I thrust my blade forward it should impale my enemy, rather than them bouncing off of it. When I swing with enough momentum there is no reason an appendage should not be removed, or in the very least, it should leave a gash and the area slashed becomes less effective or even immobile.

I don't really care if they include nudity and/or six.

No scars scars would make the players that have played the same guy for long very weak

wow. I am not talking about having it for that. Nudity as you said could be used for missions. It is funny. NO six was ever suggested just a hypothetical if there was to be a romantic sub plot on the intermediate level it's appropriate. I mean if you wanted pormo level nudity you would have to rely on modding because it's not in this suggestion. If you would not like to encounter it at all then you should stick to the light setting or just never drop your underwear lol. Nudity brings a bit of depth and realism that there are consequences to your actions. A bit that was lost after the 4 year period between morrowind and oblivion. Oblivion had light does of nudity as missions and comedy. It worked well to.

Scars have no effect on player strength just experence. Besides I dare you to tell http://preilly.deviantart.com/art/Barbarian-King-71162031 that he looks weak! Also if it's customizable you could just remove it.

I would not like the stupid volume of blood that is in Dragon Age, but a bit of red on the that shiny, white snow would give a dramatic effect.
Severed limbs are not needed, but I would REALLY REALLY like crippled limb effects that actually disable a character/mpc. If a leg is crippled the thing should hop on one leg, breaking of an arm means it tosses the 2 handed sword and pulls out a dagger, blinded enemies flail about wildly and spin in circles, deafened enemies spin around scanning for threats, and all that good stuff. What good is trying to cripple an opponent if all it does is a minor stat debuff that is hardly noticeable?.
I like scarring, but if my character is fully clothed all the time it would be kinda pointless. Mages and thieves would definitely have fewer scars than a straight up fighter.
Nudity is not necessary for the game and I would prefer more psychological gags than visual ones. I can see 8,000 youtube videos showing dancing naked elves like WoW (hundreds of level 1 naked dancing elves on every server 24/7) was when it started. That said, I do not care if there is nudity in the game. I would prefer they don't try to make all of the naked people look "pretty" because that diminishes the point of it when properly used as a plot tool.

Something along those lines, anyway.

I'm very interested in a combat model that allows for more damaging weapons, I'm bored with hitting opponents numerous times or turning them into a pincushion with arrows. I don't however have any personal need for the visual effects side of things to be anything more than what Oblivion had. Having said that I'll pretty much take whatever the developers decide to make, (assuming I'm not put off by something between now and release), if they go so far as to make a number of options available so people can pick and choose, all the better.

I'm kind of opposed to decapitation/dismemberment as part of a finishing move, I find that to be extremely tacky (I'm wary of finishing moves in general). If it's in the game I'd rather it was part of general combat.

I dislike lumping nudity and gore together as if they are similar things in the least. I don't mind nudity but I despise gore, but I see no reason for them to include either.

I think it would be interesting if nudity or graphic gore were restricted to official add-ons to avoid getting the game too high of a rating, so say the game could be rated T but with a gore add-on that add-on could be rated M. That way they could charge like one dollar for the add-ons and the age of the user would be verified since they could age check with the credit card or checking information (unless that's not possible I don't know exactly how checking works). A similar mature nudity add-on (it's not happening but it falls in line with this idea) would likely only get an M and could be restricted in a similar manner. Ten years ago there were extreme double standards and male nudity would get AO and female nudity would get M, but nowadays Grand Theft Auto proved nudity without graphic sixual content doesn't get an AO rating. As I said there's no way Bethesda would add it nor do I think they need to though.

In either case graphic gore or nudity should be optional for the user, and separately optional if both are there. I prefer mature themes personally. Xenogears is far more mature than many gore fests, and I think Mass Effect is as well. There will be no consensus on this issue, but I think it's interesting to share opinions.

I've said this alot....i believe the game needs a bit more gore.
I DO NOT want it as bad as fallouts,but it should be there to some extent,especially on finishing moves,be it head chopping or what,thats fine.
But not bits of body flying everywhere,thats too much ( fallout ).maybe a single arm coming off is fine,but not evrything flying everywhere.
Like i've said many times before,we are fighting,living,surviving in a brutal world ,with brutal weapons and brutal creatures.
Nudity i also have no problem with,some will think it's more real/immersive....some won't.
And no i'm not a 15 year old perf....i'm 35 year old perf...haha ( joke ). I'm past all that.....but still wouldn't mind if nudity was in.
I would imagine this would be really difficult...but what about if games started to use a filter system.
Say the game had gore,nudity etc,that filter would cut that out for younger players....thus maybe leading to more sales of the game,but without dissapointing people who want more mature content.
Good or bad idea?.....i don't know.

Also i would like to ask those who dont want extra gore....would you like your spells to set people on fire? ( so they are running around on fire etc )
Because to me thats in the same light,its mature and brutal.....so if mages want to be able to shock or burn people,why can't warriors,assassins etc,have swords etc that impale people.
To me thats the kettle calling the pot,it should work both ways in my view.

Hmmm.

I will state my preferences, but I'm in favor of options for those who don't agree with me.

Personally, I would like to see some fairly dramatic gore in my Conan-esque, Norse-mythology-inspired, M-rated game. I voted "Yes, but limited," because I don't want to see things like bodies completely exploding into pieces or blood splattered all over the walls of an inn like someone was just explosively depressurized. I think beyond a certain point it can actually detract from the game and become about those graphical effects instead of the game itself. But to a degree, I'd like it to be more advanced and randomized or chance based than Oblivion, in terms of what happens during combat. Dismemberment I wouldn't mind. Blood, flaying, beheading, etc. I wouldn't mind. Definitely stuff at least as graphic as some of the Dark Brotherhood quest content in Oblivion, but with the new engine of course. None of that is must-have for me. It's what I'd like, but I can live without it.

As for nudity, I'm pretty indifferent. I think it can be used well, and I don't mind if I see it. It might be nice under the right circumstances. If it's not in, I don't mind that either. I would welcome a bit more overt sixuality from some characters, however. Not in a tawdry or expressly sixual way mind you. Just in an advlt, mature, non-PG sense. But it isn't a deal-breaker for me or on my list of features I really, really want.

But as I said, I'm in favor of options, so I wold like there to be an option to disable the gore and/or nudity (should they be present) for those who don't want it in their game. That isn't going to be detrimental to my experience in the game.

At the end of the day, I just want a huge, rich, moving world and story with memorable characters, and a powerful sense of history, culture, lore depth, and gravitas. (And lots of books.) How they go about achieving that, I don't really care. They may surprise me and give me a game completely different from what I'm imagining. As long as those things are in though, I won't care.

Yes to gore, no to nudity.

I would welcome sixuality in the game. As long as it's not everywhere, just in brothels, it is kinda funny and optional and not in your face and appropriate for an M rated game. The Nords' passion for drinks goes hand in hand with nudity lol. My character likes to spend the dark snow stormy nights in the gentlemen house who am I to blame him?

Underwear is fine. Probably rather warm underwear!

And minimal, "tasteful" gore, thanks. Yes, that might read as an oxymoron.

Of course, what modders want to do to the game... well. That's for them to decide.

Personally I would really prefer it if no-one was killed, just knocked out or carried off the battlefield to a red cross tent for healing.
I would rather BS my way through trouble instead of killing someone.

However as I am the ONLY one with this opinion, I'll go along with 'same as Oblivion", with full understanding that war is hell and beheading and dismemberment in medieval times were commonplace so why not in Elderscrolls.
I'm surprised they haven't already got public executions, hanging, the wheel and the rack, burning at the stake etc. in the main square of the towns in Oblivion. Blood curdling screams from burning witches and traitors being drawn and quartered and the cries from dismembered thieves would add lots of realism to the miserable life one must endure in a country split apart by bloody civil war.

So if we must have blood and gore make the effect adjustable - with None, Light, Medium and Heavy bleeding as well as Extreme with blood pumping and squirting out in bright red, gory 3D torrents for players that like that sort of entertainment.

Even being the pacifist I am I would still choose Light/Medium blood. It would be UNrealistic to turn it off completely.

I'm for anything being in a game. I don't feel this concept of morals should apply to what is put in a GAME. ANYTHING should be put in a game, no restrictions - complete openness. And I want to see everything considered 'immoral' to be put in the game because it would be interesting to see the progression to where people no longer think through conditionings and reflex/emotional/feeling-based thinking. I'd like to see culture advance forwards to the infinity of consciousness towards where people start unadhering themselves from negative-regression adherences. Reality will become known on a collective level that it is infinite and unbounded.