Hey guys, first post, but please...hear me out.

I need to start by saying that I never even knew what ES was until Morrowind for the original Xbox. Since it's release, I have gone back and played Arena and Daggerfall, and I've put countless hours into Oblivion, and the many expansions of both M and O.

I also have never played Morrowind OR Oblivion for PC, and have never really been a PC gamer anyway. I've never been comfortable having to upgrade my PC every two years to keep with the times so to speak.

That being said, the graphics for Oblivion on the 360 were, at the time, some of the best console graphics EVER. Obviously now, they are a little dated in some areas, though in my opinion, they are still completely top notch. There are definitely aspects that look better in other titles, but the environments look phenomenal for a console title.

I've noticed, since the trailer for Skyrim, that there seems to be an awful lot of complaints regarding the graphical quality of Skyrim. Some deal with the water specifically, some are just general complaints. I'm not sure I understand this. I get that the PC gamers all are used to top quality graphics in general, but even if the graphics AREN'T top quality in Skyrim, they will clearly be better than Oblivion, and even Oblivion on the 360 looked "good enough". I for one, find the trailer to be absolutely beautiful. It's clearly leagues ahead of what Oblivion offered (when not using the graphics mods all of you PC guys use).

Furthermore, Morrowind looked like ass to me on the original Xbox. I put 300+ hours into that game. It had nothing to do with the graphics...it was the stellar open-world gameplay...the fact that I felt like I was in that world, affecting it with my actions, and facing the consequences of those actions.

I sometimes wonder if the old "gameplay trumps graphics" argument is lost on PC gamers, as it seems that the first thing they talk about is graphics...EVERY time.

I guess what I'm getting at, is that we need to stop complaining about the graphics in Skyrim. So long as it doesn't take a step BACKWARDS, the graphics are going to be fine.

Also: We probably shouldn't be complaining about spears either...seriously...I want them, you want them...is it going to hurt the game to not have them?

I've had mine for 3 and I can still run Crysis at max settings @ 1280x800. I honestly think it can even run Skyrim at nice settings, but I'm upgrading because I want to enjoy the game fully (fully as of 1920x1200 @ Max settings @ 60+ FPS @ mods that improve graphics (in the future)).



Every game that intends to create a new world and sense of inmersion simply must have the best graphics it can. That's why we PC users talk so much about graphics. You won't hear me complaint about Super Mario graphics, that's for sure.

If I wanted raw gameplay, I'd go play Minecraft.

Welcome to the forums have a http://media.photobucket.com/image/have%20a%20fishy%20stick/Enoil/DarkFishyStick.jpg

Consoles force game devs to... work inside the box. Which is great, like just look up RAGE videos from E3 and thats all on the 360 and it looks [censored] awesome. Or Witcher 2.

Or hell, games like Guild Wars are low on requirements and thats still one of the best looking games out there artwise.

I like both gameplay and graphics!

If you've never seen any better graphics, then certainly I can understand where you're coming from, I wouldn't expect somebody who'd never heard music to pick out the classics straight off, or a new reader to know the greats. The same way, I wouldn't expect somebody who'd never experienced good graphics to understand the importance. Not because pushing pixels is important, but because muddy textures, a low resolution, and little or no AA can ruin a scene. What I want from graphics is to make me not notice the graphics - the moment I notice that the textures are tiny, or a supposedly smooth edge is jaggy, or that that circle isn't actually circular, it shatters immersion.

On the other hand, I both play and enjoy old games, whether it be elite (Which, IMO, still has yet to be beaten at what it does), Baldur's Gate 2(Still one of, if not the, best RPG of all time), Half Life, or System Shock 2. However, it is 2011, and we can do better. We *should* do better. We're crafting a world, here, to let the world down because our view of it is ruined by such things is terrible.

Plus, of course, there's the very important point that graphics are pretty much all we have to talk about. You can't talk about gameplay if you know nothing about the gameplay, but we've seen the graphics.

Well, most PC gamers don't have five+ year old technology in their PCs and want games to take advantage of their hardware.

:shrug:

If you can play Crysis maxed you should be able to max Skyrim. Crysis is still the best looking game on the market (at least that seems to be general consensus) and Skyrim has to run on what Oblivion ran on. You should be fine lol.

Anyways it's a refreshing lift in my afternoon of lurking to see a positive post about some new info instead of the negative posts, the stupid posts, and the stupid negative posts.

Xbox vs PC
http://i54.tinypic.com/qoxdet.png

You have nothing to worry about regarding textures.

Stop right there (criminal scum). Gameplay is obviously more important than graphics, otherwise we just get a photo. Any why point this out only to PC gamers? I play Oblivion on both PC and 360 and even though my (modded) PC version looks heaps better, I don't care. I can quite easily go and play my 360 version without any problems. So please stop saying that PC gamers only care about graphics.

Just have to defend the Xbox version a bit there in that picture.
That picture isn't a very good comparison, because the whole picture is heavily blurred. Probably from a camera or something.
Therefore, the Xbox pic looks worse than it would in reality...

But yes, higher res textures and AA for PC. But sure hope we'll get DX11 too. It would make it possible (rather easy) to add some super duper great graphics mods later on. Timeslip, perhaps?
Still... these graphics mods shouldn't be have be done. It should be in the game from the start...
I'm hoping for a build in POSSIBILITY for tessellation. It would really add a lot to the graphics. A whooole lot. Especially since a lot of objects in Skyrim are made out of stone.
And stone looks awesome in tessellation.

Damn right we don't only care about graphics. I'm happy that it's being released on this gen of consoles. Means I don't have to upgrade. I still am because I don't like to game on my laptop so I'm building a PC but not specifically for maxing out game settings.

Edit: @hlvr: I think that 360 pic was recorded using a Dazzle. It still is a little blurry though.

The Xbox screen isn't blurry enough to justify that claim. It's pretty clear that the road texture on the PC version is much higher resolution.

Great first post, which I largely agree with, I thought the trailer looked awesome. However as a "dyed in the wool" PC gamer I have to say that I do not mind much about graphics - if the new TES game was released with graphics the same as Morrowind I would be every bit as excited about it as I am for Skyrim, for example I never noticed until recently that Oblivion didn't have any dynamic shadow whatnots, and I wouldn't mind if Skyrim didn't have them either. Better graphics don't hurt though, as long as the gameplay is to the level I want and expect I'll be a very happy punter, and I'm not going to grumble if it looks pretty too

Personally, I think the graphics look great. They are at a point where they get the job done and offer some style that seems to be lost when realism is the main goal of graphic design. If the trailer is the X360, I think PC gamers are in for a real treat. However, PC gamers will definitely feel upset if Beth doesn't spend some time to optimize the game for PC. I think the biggest point would be to make sure that the game has a DX11 mode, even if the game does not take advantage of any of the graphical bells and whistles. Give us the multi-threading capability that comes with DX11, and the better AA, AF, etc and we'll be happy.

It's not that we expect a completely different game, it's just that we are tired of being forced to play games that are obviously designed for consoles. UI, graphics, etc. It's all been engineered to be console specific and us PC gamers don't like that. Invest the money into some PC development on this end and I think you'll be well rewarded. DX11 just seems like it goes without saying.

All three versions are being developed at the same time.

Actually, most PC gamers that I know my self included don't care how a game looks so long as it runs well and get it's point across. Dragon Age was by no means a good looking game, it was almost last gen for us PC gamers but it was addictive and attractive non the less. Not only that, but the 12 million people playing World of Warcraft don't care about graphics either. In fact games like MineCraft almost by them selves disprove this point. There are some people in this world who will never be pleased no matter how you look at a game. Do you think a game with lack luster graphics would sell a million + on consoles?(maybe in the indie section) I'm not trying to start a war, just getting my point across that at least for me and most of us it's never been about the graphics.

Well PC versions of Oblivion and Morrowind better not only because of graphic, gameplay also more deep and have much more features
Consoles better only in short time when they have better performance because of better optimization and overall middle level of graphic and obtain release of game earlier then PC, then PC become better and even exclusive DLC and other premium options for consoles cant make great difference

I you look at whats inside a PS3 or Xbox 360,and then look at the graphics of skyrim and crysis 2,it's outstanding what they have done with that older tech.
I think that pisses some PC users off.
In fact the chips etc in these consoles are older than 6 years old,and look at what they can do,and with way less memory,than your average PC.
I think it's very impressive indeed. I mean there are some graphics cards out there that are almost as expensive as a console.
If you look at oblivion gameplay on youtube there are many examples of people who play it on PC's,where graphics look [censored].
There's videos of quarl's texture pack in there,looks good,but some PC's run like [censored] after that. But you also have PC's that can run all of that smoothly.
I understand that if you have a great PC,you want the best out of it,but you have to be realistic,when games are multi-platform.
If you think of what the xbox and PS3 have in terms of power,the take the grand scale of whats in skyrim...graphic's,AI,game tracking ,allsorts....it's very impressive
even in today's terms. I just don't understand why alot ( not all ) of PC users always beat down on console users,it's unfair.
Bethesda made the decision to bring elder scrolls to console,NOT console user's....blame bethesda,not us.
Hell...i'm still glad they even announced another elder scrolls game anyway.
I mean some of you PC users say graphics don't matter...then you turn your faces and say consoles are [censored]....make your minds up.
At the end of the day,we are here for one reason....thats the elder scrolls games. We all have a right to play them,we all have a right to enjoy them.
The more people that buy elder scrolls the better for everyone in the end.....it's that simple.
Taking the decision to make the elder scrolls multi-platform ,was the best thing bethesda could have done. It allows them to grow stronger,it allows them to keep the elder scrolls and other games alive. Because there is a bigger audience,the games get bigger and more popular,ensuring that they continue.
Look at the bigger picture....and stop looking down on console user's just because they want to enjoy the elder scrolls just as much as you do.
I don't give a monkeys arsehole that your PC is better than my xbox,i just want to play skyrim.
It's not that ,that bothers me,it's the attitude in general to console user's....and that has to end!
Peace out :thumbsup:

You make a lot of good points.
Well said :foodndrink:

when
Ummm if you don't like the comments us PC players make then don't read them. I agree ,however, that this console war is just rubbish, you should play on whatever you want. But the fact is, why should we settle with inferior graphics when Bethesda should just make the game GOOD for every platform. Multiplatform doesn't have to mean crappy ports to PC, or vice versa. So yes, I am blaming Bethesda for this and until I see a PC picture to judge for myself I am going to be criticizing.

I hate to tell you, but people are going to rashly complain about anything despite valid reasoning. Personally the gameplay and plenty of other features have got me shaking with anticipation, and the art style is great. Sure, the textures are a bit low resolution at the moment but we've still got to go through beta and RC (which will be a huge leap for one) and PC will get even higher resolution textures plus things like AA. I wouldn't be surprised if the finished product WITHOUT visual enchancing mods is going to look 3-4x better than Oblivion.

But most importantly, I think it's going to play 10x better than Oblivion WITH mods.

You shouldn't generalise. That never works.

But seriously, yes, it's slightly annoying watching people awe over how much juice somebody can get out of a month old orange when I'm standing here with an orange tree, and then when I mention to anybody I have an orange tree, I'm accused of orange elitism. I want to drink some darn orange juice, and nobody will give me a juicer that isn't designed for dry, rotten oranges. No, the colour of the orange's skin doesn't matter, it's the taste, but an off-colour orange smells funny and why are you drinking it?

I'm pretty sure that metaphor had a point somewhere, but now I just want orange juice. Basically, you saying "[censored] PC gamers" is every bit as bad as a PC gamer going "[censored] console gamers". Don't become what you hate in your quest to destroy it. Nobody sensible really believes console users are inferior - but my god, are the consoles low powered. Yes, it's impressive what they can get out of them, why do I care about that when they could bring a much better game to me otherwise? I'm not allowed to feel even a little put out by this?

Thanks PhYoshi, that gave me the best laugh I've had all week!

Art Direction > Graphics

Morrowind > Oblivion

Generalising doesn't always work,but i just wanted to point some things out.
I understand that you like oranges. :thumbsup:
There is arguments for both sides,i understand ,that if you have great PC you want it to be used as it should,i have no problem with that at all.
I know where you are coming from. But skyrim looks good enough overall.
PC user's shouldn't worry too much,we know it's going to look fantastic on PC. I don't think bethesda are going to forget that.
They usually don't do that stuff till later on.
I just want all of us to enjoy the game regardless of what we play it on....it's why we are here.
Suppose i've got a little defensive about the game,because i'm delighted with what i've seen.
I don't wish to offend anyone,but i feel some things needed to be said.
Lets all enjoy skyrim for what it is,and is going to be.....a great game in the series

Even though i play on xbox,i do enjoy looking at the mods people have created on PC. I think some people have great creative minds.
I will no doubt look at more in the future on youtube when skyrim s released.