1) How much do you want low tech weapons (muskets, bow and arrow, crossbows, slings, slingshots, javelins, tomahawks, etc)? It really doesn't make sense that some tribals use throwing spears and some use 9mm submachine guns, but none use anything in between. Using these in between weapons would add a level of realism (the notion that there is enough live ammo after 200 years to supply endless minigun combat is unrealistic) and make rifles (rifled weapons that is) and basic energy weapons more special when you get access to them at low level.

2) What do you think of fantastic weapons? By fantastic weapons I mean things like the Rock-it-launcher and Deathclaw Gauntlet from FO3 (lets not play the "bastardized" FO's don't count game for once, ok?) or a chemical thrower from Bioshock. Should they be things that you must make (and thus be better than normal weapons), or should they be rare (so that some slaver might have a Flaming Chainsaw Sword). Should you be able to make your own recipes?

3) Should everything be able to be turned into weapons? Should you be able to smash some one over the head with a beer can or use some tin cans as brass knuckles?

4) Weapons mods. Should they exist? How many per weapon? I think there should be a lot of different mods for the same weapon. You might have to choose between a scope with 10x magnification or a 5x with night vision. There could also be thermal imaging scopes, ultrasonic, laser distance finders. At high levels you could have X Ray scopes that let you see behind things. Tazer, chainsaw, atom-sharp, or hydraulic bayonet? Should weapons found in the wasteland have some mods already attached? Can you invent your own mods?

5) Different kinds of ammo? You know armor piercing, tracer, high explosive

6) How many different skills should there be? I favor having a skill for weapons size and then a skill for weapon type. So a laser pistol would use the pistol skill and the energy weapons skill, a minigun would use big guns and firearms skill, a plasma grenade would use thrown weapons and energy weapons, etc.

7) Alien weapons?

8) Rare prototypes? Should there be special versions of weapons with special abilities? Just think of a unique version of brass knuckles called Uranium Nukals LOLOLOL I love it.

9) Should some weapons have multiple functions? Two examples are a M16 with a grenade launcher and laser aim that doubles as a laser pistol-like weapon. Would this be too complicated?

10) What other weapons not found in any FO game do you want to see? All I want for Christmas is APA and a gauss rifle.

1) Any retrotech fallout weapon...but to say low or high tech...when trying to put realism inside a game, they could still produce new guns, bullets etc...because there will always be steam technology (Spaghetti Western movies)...

2)About fantastic weapons? ...maybe I didn't get it but it similar to mod ?

3)If you have the knowledge yes...I know some people who use a pipe..place a shotgun shell inside and fire it with a nail "don't try this at home"...or duct tape 2 ammo clips for faster reloading...but I think no one can program it all...there will always be someone complaining why can't I use this to make bla bla...

4)Everyone loves weapon mod or upgrades, and there should be plenty with a pattern or tech tree, so that if you use one upgrade - the other one remains unobtainable following a different branch of upgrades...making it your unique weapon...only missing your name on it...one game has this system for armor and weapons..it's perfect...

5)In Fallot tactis there is really too much types of ammo (EMP. shells, Tesla rocket etc..) so I guess MMO will have even more...

6)Ahh this way you would use up 2 skill tabs instead of one...and to click both in the same time you loose too much rare points...my opinion is why not something like the more you use this kind of weapon you get better and better aiming, faster trigger etc...

7)Well sure but in fallout spirit, like in FO2 you find some fazor from star trek or sun scorcher etc...

8)Yes but who would wield them only one player in MMO...maybe better like fraction weapons...different fractions have their own signature weapon...obtainable for those MMO players who choose a fraction...like BOS - Gatling minigun....Enclave YK42B pulse rifle etc...

9)Yes they should...single or rapid fire mod...M16 with shotgun add on...complicated - for us no, only one button more to click, but to design/program/upgrade in an MMO universe - maybe...(imagine having a basic weapon and upgrade it by adding knife, grenade launcher, scope, laser beam etc...)

10)Ahh a long time ago I had a topic about what I would like to see http://gamesas.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2702

I'd assume tribals use these lowtech weapons much, I haven't seen any bows or arrows but I'd think they would be popular too, sling shots, spears, axes, all those should be in the game but I think mostly tribals would use them. Possibly poor towns or villages like shady sands.

When it comes to guns I think that if we can produce them we would make them similar to the modern (fallout modern) that exist, just take apart a gun and look how its made, then replicate it There are probably towns designated (probably from higher authority like NCR) to reproduce ammo/weapons, one reason to why there still is lots of ammo around.

Maybe some tribals could use guns but I think they would rely mostly on weapons that doesn't require hard to get ammunition (they would probably get tricked when trying to buy some from towns as well).

2) What do you think of fantastic weapons?

eeeh, if you remove the flaming chainsaw (and any other really unrealistic weapon that wouldn't be of any real use) I think there should be some, like the deathclaw gauntlet could very well work for melee combatants, or why not have a spear with a radscorpions gland tied to the top, poisonspear If they are plausible enough and not OP they could very well serve their purpose. Don't think rock-it-launcher would be the definition of an effective weapon, bigass airpump shooting out objects with an very inaccurate aim

3) Should everything be able to be turned into weapons?

It would be fun sure, but I wouldn't be sad if it weren't implemented, would add to RP if you could take up a bottle and use it in a brawl

4) Weapons mods. Should they exist? How many per weapon?

Weapons mods are always fun But the hardest thing is always to make it simple and actually useful. In many games it's either quite complex or it's just useless (or both). So if they just keep it very simple, like there is a special upgrade window, if you have a loose scope in your inventory and then press it, all candidates to attach it too would be shown. So if it's kept simple and effective, then why the heck not

Maybe add negative effects to the mods, like add a scope and it will be hard to fight in closecombat, add extra-size mag, the weapon will be heavier and harder to aim with etc etc

5) Different kinds of ammo? You know armor piercing, tracer, high explosive

Ye, sure. Just don't make 10000000000000000 kinds of ammotypes, so you wander around with 2 tons of useless ammo that you can't use because... well either it's very hard to find a gun to use it with or simply put, there is only 2 guns and both guns svck.

I think fallout 1/2 covered this pretty well. Several weapons could use the same ammo but almost all were good in different situations (except bozar.... bozar is good in any situation! Bozar rules!!!).

6) How many different skills should there be?

Hard to say, I think f1,f2 handled this very good as well.
Big guns = miniguns, rocket launchers (all "normal" very big weapons).
Small guns = rifles, shottys, pistols.
Laser = all laserbased weapons
explosives
etc etc etc, you get my point. Could explain more why I like it so much but since I don't read gigantic wall of texts then I presume no one else do I'd explain if someone asks >_<

7) Alien weapons?

<3 random encounters in old fallout But keep it like, really really really rare, wouldn't be anything fun if everyone could get their hands on it :/

8) Rare prototypes? Should there be special versions of weapons with special abilities? Just think of a unique version of brass knuckles called Uranium Nukals LOLOLOL I love it.

Just not make it too silly and I wouldn't mind them.

9) Should some weapons have multiple functions? Two examples are a M16 with a grenade launcher and laser aim that doubles as a laser pistol-like weapon. Would this be too complicated?

Weapon mods?
Why not use weapon mods for that

10) What other weapons not found in any FO game do you want to see?

There are already some old threads for this I'm happy as long as the weapons seen in the old games are here.

For muskets its really an in between weapon for "machine" rifles and stone age weapons (bow and arrow). If you look into any modern firearm it is really an intricate piece of machinery like a watch. That is not apocalypse tech. What would be apocalypse tech would be something more like the shotgun shell, pipe, and nail thing another guy was talking about (not necessarily literal muskets, more like improvised firearms using loose black powder). They would be things you would expect tribals to make out of scrap metal. All I am really getting at here is that if you see a guy with an AK47 and combat armor he is NOT level 5. He is wealthy, and he has done some missions. Yes NCR type town would have all kinds of machine rifles, but they will be expensive. You can't trade in some radroach meat for a 9mm submachine gun. I just wanted to clarify that. All I want for Christmas is APA and a gauss rifle.

Don't be such a hoarder/kleptomaniac and only take the ammo you can use as 'ammo', and consider other types trinkets/heavy currency.




And can we please get over this Damage per round/second and tech tree mentality from pen and paper and kHz clockspeed role playing? Le sigh
And levels too, kthx. Why do games studios have to fight and die? War, war never changes : (

Doihavetoo makes a good point. Self regulation is always a better alternative to limiting freedom All I want for Christmas is APA and a gauss rifle.

1) really really want the low level weapons. It would be to unrealistic if you just start out with a rifle or pistol, and they should be somewhat difficult to obtain at early levels.

2)Yes, homemade weapons are a must.

3)If gamesas can do it tastefully then hell yes. Realism = what I want.

4)Ohhhhh yeah.

5)Definitely, but not to many, and they should be craftable.

6)Small guns, big guns, energy weapons, explosives.

7)keep it super rare like that other guy said.

8)Yes, but once again, keep it rare and difficult to obtain. Like putting a bunch of radiation around it for an example.

9)Ehhh Id have to see it.

10)The low level weapons and make shift weapons like you said.

Give me a gatling gun and were all set. Well I guess we're just a couple of problem solvers

As you wish Excuse my bad English... I am a Russian bear, it's hard to type with claws.

1. Agreed, really. But if we're to take realism into the equation, wood would also be a rarity - at least wood you could make durable weaponry out of, so they'd be somewhat plentiful but degrade at a higher rate.

2. All for it, they add to the dark humour of FO, as long as they are set within certain parameters, but that i'm sure gamesas has fully under control. (read: fitting into the "the world continued as they predicted in 1950 sci-fi").
I'd tend to lean towards they are something you'd have to make, and rarely be able to buy - they are "fantastic" after all, and some people may not be as ingenious before they've seen a couple of creative creations. But, as for "your own recipes", i'd lean towards a "no", main reasoning being server load and balancing issues.

3. Sounds good on paper, but really it loops back to point 1, answer being the same but with an added "times 10"
Also, can see a few issues with how to handle picking up -> equipping -> utilizing something in the middle of a fight, where you would need the option the most.

4. All for weapon mods, but again, within FO parameters. X-Ray scopes sound wonderful, but when they get to the point of "wall-hack"-ish ability, they should start to add some negative effects (increased weight, or some such.), or only be mountable on big guns (in this particular case. X-ray scopes can't be that light weight )

5. Aye. If the market is player driven, doubly so. Make them higher level production items, leaving standard ammo to the lower level market.
Also, what about pointed vs. arrow-headed vs blunt headed vs. explosive ordanance bolts and arrows? In regards to point 1. ^^

6. I'd agree with you, here. Makes sense, and increases the possible character builds, without making the player unable to "focus" on one specific aspect of the combat portion of the game. Also, increases usefulness of various stats so players are even less likely (perhaps) to feel they can safely focus on 3 - 4 stats alone with no ill affects.
As for how many, well - What if we divide them up much like you did, size and type.
Types: Energy, Explosive, Projectile
Sizes: Big guns, Small guns, Thrown, Melee, Unarmed.
Could be fun if rarer guns could end up requiring more than merely two skills to operate optimally.
Say, a Rocket-launcher that fires containers of irradiated plasma-goo that explodes and splashes on impact. Explosive, Energy, Big Guns.
Or a glove that has needles on the knuckles that draw tiny amounts of your own blood and irradiates it, adding damage over time and higher crit chance. Unarmed, Medicine, Science.

7. I'd say, no. They are show-stoppers in my mind. They remove the game from "Human ingenuity" towards dark humour at too high a cost (How the diddly did everyone get one!?). That, and the relative rarity on Earth compared to how "standard" they truly are, they would at the least have to be considered very rare weapons in and of them selves.

8. Certainly. But they should require a high amount of skillpoints in repair+appropriate weapon type modifier to maintain, just because someone managed to irradiate a pair of Brass knuckles and somehow avoid getting radiation damage on their hands, doesn't mean you can do the same thing when you find a rusted pair of them and superglue them together. In that particular case you'd require a high Science, Repair, and Unarmed skill - i'd wager.

9. Wouldn't this basically boil down to highly advanced mods, as you present them? (Advanced here meaning having ducttaped a regular laser pistol with a laser sight mod on top to a rifle and running a string from the guns trigger to a nail in the opening at the rifles trigger)

10. After having answered some of your questions, a thought popped into my mind; species semi-specific.
I'm no fan of excluding any weapons to any race, but i have no problem in seeing downsides to some using them and not to others.
If we take the brass knuckles from point 8, for example. Ghouls and Super Mutants could use them with no harmful effects. Humans can use them as well, but they continously take on radiation - but seeing as its localised this translates to ever-increasing penalties to how much your strength adds to your damage modifier - as it's only your arm that gets fracked up.
Other examples could be stop-sign fists, as has been seen, rotor-blade tipped finger gloves, radiator shields, irradiated versions of normal weapons, and so on.
Only problem i see off the bat is that I personally can't think of anything that only humans would benefit from using.
"This rifle's trigger is exceptionally tense and tiny. The spring has been tightened considerably, so much, in fact, that should a ghoul attempt he'd suffer limb damage each time, and should a Super Mutant attempt it, he'll be occupied all day."? (suffers limb damage each shot - slower rate of fire)
But then again, Humans' strength could lie in the ability to utilize all semi-species specific weapons, whereas i'd like to see a skinny ghoul try to wield a radiator and not delivering a blow swiftly followed by a crunchy, squishy cracking sound from his lower back. But again, i'm not fond of the idea of excluding a species from using any weapon.

1) How much do you want low tech weapons

I would love to see a lot of low tech weapons : they are easy to make and not require heavy technology / machinery : perfect for tribals, low-tech gangs, "10 str / 2 int" character
A (few?) hundred years after a nuclear war, this kind of weapons should be the most used due to the lack of mass production capability for guns in a post nuclear world.
Also, we have to keep in mind that a single shotgun / hunting rifle can be seen as a "low tech" weapon in the fallout univers, and some faction could be able to produce a (few) low quality replica with limited skill and tools.

2) What do you think of fantastic weapons?

Same as bikkebakke, no for a flaming chainsaw but ok for weapons that stick to the fallout universe.

3) Should everything be able to be turned into weapons?

Most of the stuff, yes. You can throw a toaster to hurt someone, or nail the electric cord to a stick then use it as a weapon

4) Weapons mods.

Yes, in the fallout way : old, rusty, home-made.
I think that weapons / ammo / gear customisation should take a big part in a fallout game. It's "easy" to add a knife in front of your rifle, teeth on your machete or metal plate on your leather jacket, to convert your ammo into dum-dum bullet with basic tools => it should be great to create your own equipment and custom / upgrade it with everything we find.

@bikkebakke : X-ray scopes can produce radiation, need ammunition (x-ray device are power hungry... and really big atm) or give a really bad picture? High background radiation could blind the scope, like using a night-vision device during the day?

5) Different kinds of ammo?

Factory build, hand (re)loaded and home-made (aka bad quality, i have in mind theses hand-made ammunition build by resistants during the ww2 with really basic tools, lead, primer from other caliber, homemade powder => not accurate, not good for the weapon but it's still able to kill someone) with a *few* type (FMJ, JSP...)

7) Alien weapons?

Yes, but incredibly hard to find and repair, with rare non-craftable ammo. A "luck : 11" weapon.

8) Rare prototypes?

Yes! I loved the rare protos / unique weapons in the fallout series. That .223 pistol never get old

9) Should some weapons have multiple functions?

Single / auto fire... ability to use gun/rifle for a close combat attack too?

10) What other weapons not found in any FO game do you want to see?

I'm ok with the F1/F2 weapons, new vegas add some good one like the 40mm grenade launcher or the .357 based weap.
A weapon that emit radiation could be fun, like a fuel rod in a lead tube with a custom window. (obviously, really heavy... and dangerous for the gunner *too* )


A last thing... ammo must have a weight! We can't carry 3000 .223 round and a few dozen rockets!

I love the weapons of F1 and 2, my only beef with F3 and NV weapons is that too many of em are real world weapons... I prefer weapons that never existed or fallout versions of real world guns. I mean i get really flacid when I get a new toy and it looks like something out of call of duty. "Oh Wow! A gun i've seen and used in a thousand other games i'm so excited! What? an Ak47! NO! Really? Who'd-a-thunk-it?!?" It's sooo boring and bland. It's so strange to me that people can't get enough of the same old same old. It's why the markets flooded with ww2 shooters and "fantasy" RPGs.

But since this applies much much less here i'll move on. What i'd really like to see is a wider variety of melee weapons. In the last 5 Fallout games i've played (F1, F2, FoT, F3, FNV) I've never been lured into playing as a melee charecter and when i think about creating a melee heavy charecter i always end up realizing wow this game is lacking in this department. Its always been, A bunch of shitty/boring weapons and Sledge/Super sledge and nothing in between. My suggestion would b to make weapons along the lines of a super sledge in character, ultra Bat, power black-jack, Mega Mace(ooooo Mega Mace)

Good idea with the additional melee weapons. How about a jack hammer, hydro-hammer (before impact it fires a powerful hydraulic cylinder), or some kind of gravity hammer (on impact it increases its own weight to something like 500lbs and then decreases its weight to zero so it can be swung again)?

Now with respect to the flaming chainsaw...it does belong in the fallout universe. Picture a chainsaw. The sides of it are blank areas, right? Now attach propane grill gas emitters (I don't know what they are called) to those sides. The chainsaw is adjusted so that it makes sparks when it comes on, and its trigger also releases the propane. Add a propane backpack (and for good measure say the chainsaw runs on propane) and you have a completely plausible flaming chainsaw. And more importantly its mixing of typical Americana into a terrible post apocalyptic wacky weapon fits into the Fallout world. Granted it is on the outer fringes of wackiness, but it does fit. All I want for Christmas is APA and a gauss rifle.

I hope we will see some weapons for the (evil) doctors among us. Filling an empty syringe with phycho or other drugs and overdose enemys for damage, stun or debuff effects would be a very interesting playstyle.

I'm fine with bows being present, but I think some people here think they should be implemented as low damage easy to use beginner weapons.

Also any bow that is realistically implemented would require large sinking of skills, thereby defeating their early game purpose to playerable characters, even if they are more easily obtainable than guns or crossbow designs. It does give small settlements (including 'tribes') an option but fairness would dictate taking up one of their tag skills.

Indeed the weapons are boring, but I was hoping Fallout Online would break the mould of melee or ranged, as if they should be somehow equal 'for game balance'. This isn't bloody Lord of the Rings. Yeah any human is going to get F'ed up by a sledgehammer, but you don't see the US Army carrying them around for a reason. Similarly you can't always just keep running backwards if someone/some deathclaw jumps out at you with a knife. I think a better 'balance' would be instead of a numerical "I'm going to survive my bayonet charge because your bullets only do 2 damage to me", they implement a real limitation on ammo and also make reloading harder, especially at low gun skills levels. It takes most people a lot of practice to cycle any manual action and return the weapon to a good firing grip quickly, yet in FO3 as soon you pick up your first gun you're reloading under fire like a veteran... It maybe a game but damn use some creativity instead of inflicting awful damage formulas on us :/

Also I hate seeing chainsaws as weapons. Against soft tissue the movement is inefficient, the auto-axe of the Pitt DLC would be far superior (although pretty useless for cutting the metal it's supposedly used for...)

Edited for spelling/grammar Why do games studios have to fight and die? War, war never changes : (

Indeed the weapons are boring, but I was hoping Fallout Online would break the mould of melee or ranged, as if they should be somehow equal 'for game balance'. This isn't bloody Lord of the Rings. Yeah any human is going to get F'ed up by sledgehammer, but you don't see the US Army carrying them around for a reason. Similarly you can't always just keep running backwards if someone/some deathclaw jumps out at you with a knife. I think a better 'balance' would be instead of a numerical "I'm going to survive my bayonet charge because your bullets only do 2 damage to me", they implement a real limitation on ammo and also make reloading harder, especially at low gun skills levels. It takes most people a lot of practice to cycle any manual action and return the weapon to a good firing grip, yet in FO3 as soon you pick you first gun you're reloading under fire like a veteran... It maybe a game but damn use some creativity instead of inflicting awful damage formulas on us :/

Also I hate seeing chainsaws as weapons. Against soft tissue the movement is inefficient, the auto-axe of the Pitt DLC would be far superior (although pretty useless for cutting the metal it's supposedly used for...)
You make some in interesting points. A good example of a great game with a (IMO) terrible combat system is Arcanum... The being a technologist is so painful. Guns are much less effective overall compared to melee or magic, and this do to the problem of the difficult balancing act you suggested above. Now I thought as far as the balancing gamesas, Black Isle, Bethesda (Good sweet christ this games been in alotta hands.) and Obsidion did an ok job as far as balancing, at least in comparison to arcanum. Personally I don't mind that it's unrealistic that someone with a bat can have a decent chance against someone with a rifle. I think this comes down to a matter of taste not correct or incorrect.

And as far as the chainsaws I say keep em rippin . But to satisfy DoIhaveto, we could change the name to Combat Chainsaw. Indicating that its been modified.

DoIhavetoo made a very good point with bows would have to sink a lot of points for bows to effective. There are two ways to address this. The first is to make the bow skill in a common skill. The likeliest choice is thrown weapons. This is useful at higher levels since it is necessary for grenades. The second is to make bows useful at higher levels. Impoverished tribals would use simple and weak bows. More powerful tribals may use Mongol-style compound bows or English longbows. They are poor and low tech, but what they do have works well and is fully capable of killing radscorpions. Now it gets interesting. Factions like the NCR and even the BoS could use high quality crossbows (carbon fiber, optic scopes, auto-reload, etc). NCR rangers would use these bows so that they can preform long range operations with out support. They make arrows from local materials. The other reason that they would use bows is they are more silent (which fits into the ranger attack style). High level effectiveness of bows could be improved with exploding arrows (duh), guided arrows (the fins move to increase accuracy), telescopic arrows (after impact an arrow length needle impales the target), shotgun arrows (on impact a shotgun shell is detonated point blank), bear trap arrows (the arrow head bites in after impact due to powerful springs), harpoon arrow (reals the bad guy in), tazer arrow (stuns the target), phosphorus arrows, poison arrows, atom-sharp arrows (sharpened to a single atom). You get the idea. I am not suggesting that the best weapon in the game should be a crossbow, but you could do worse. All I want for Christmas is APA and a gauss rifle.

Actually, if that's going to be the case I think I'd just prefer overpowered bows at the start... No offence Why do games studios have to fight and die? War, war never changes : (

Make bows/cross bows a perk to use. If you don't have the perk you can use em but you svck and if you have the perk, have your guns skill apply to the bows/cross bows... Or just lump em in with guns or survival i don't care whatever...

The perk idea could be a good idea, but would that be the rule for the game? That to use a special weapon you need a special perk, like an exotic weapons feat in dnd. That would be a major detachment from previous FO games. idk what to think about that.

I picture the bow being slower and less accurate at low levels than the equivalent 9mm or laser pistol, but slightly more powerful, quieter, with reusable, easy to make ammo. The other down side is that with their long reload time they would be almost worthless is close combat. Rifles would quickly out pace them in DPS, but with a much more brutal ammo economy and not much stealth potential until higher level. The advantages of bows are silence and ammo economy. Compound bows and long bows lag behind but remain competitive with their equivalent assault and laser rifles. The examples of super ammo are to illustrate how a crossbow may compete with a plasma rifle or rocket launcher.

What do you guys think of a blow gun? They would be even more silent than a bow, silenced gun, or laser (capacitors may be noisy). The Nazis actually used a white, cigarette sized blow gun for stealth missions. A pneumatic version could even pierce power armor (at least enough to deliver the poison). All I want for Christmas is APA and a gauss rifle.