The Hero of Kvatch vs Dragonborn : V - Skyrim

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:59 pm

First off, let's stick to The Elder Scrolls. Granted, this is mainly because I have absolutely no idea who The Courier and Lone Wanderer are.

Ok, let's look at the CoC damaging the Dragonborn then. The Dragonborn is dressed in his legendary dragonbone armor, enchanted with resist magic to the 80% cap and also reduce the cost of Restoration spells by 100%. He's also at level 81, and has invested each level up into health.

The CoC hits the Dragonborn with a sword. The dragonborn's armor takes most of it, and his high health is hardly damaged. Even if he does take significant damage, his 0-cost restoration spells quickly recover his health. Or he could use Become Ethere, another powerful shout, to become totally immune to damage.

CoC fires a spell at the Dragonborn. 80% resist magic takes care of that. An arrow? Restoration or become ethereal. Dragonborn could use the sneak perk that causes an enemy to stop combat for a moment when sneak is entered. Dragonborn turns invisible, sneaks away. Uses throw voice, another good shout, to distract CoC. Calls Dragon - while the dragon can't harm CoC, it can distract him. Plus the dragon can die, as he's essential.

A well-aimed sneak attack and the CoC takes significant damage. Could probably throw a paralysis poison on that arrow too.

Perhaps we should say the battle will never be won?

Dragonborn can reach 80% Physical Damage Reduction from 567 Armor Rating, and is capped at 85% Resist Magic. The CoC can reach 80% Physical Damage Reduction from Armor, can reach 100% Reflect Damage making him completely immune to melee attacks, and can also reach 100% Resist Magic/Reflect Magic. The CoC can lower the Dragonborn's resists with Weakness to Magic/Element/Poison spells, making him vulnerable. The CoC can also have 100% Chameleon, making him completely undetectable, while able to score sneak attack after sneak attack after sneak attack, all of which bypass Armor Rating with 100 Sneak perk. The CoC can also Silence the Dragonborn, preventing him from Shouting or casting spells. The CoC can also cast spells while wielding a Two Hander or a Weapon+Shield, the Dragonborn cannot.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:05 am

There was a thread shortly before this one that was "Dovahkiin vs. Courier Six," and the discussion looked more or less the same.
I'm bringing that back up alongside this current matchup (and some others, like the Nerevarine) to make a point that shouting is the most overrated reason for beating any of the protagonists (save the Lone Wanderer). Something the CoC, Nerevarine and the Courier all have in common is the ability to dodge or resist being hit. Shouts then become useless because they either A) are offensive and require that they land a hit, which is unlikely or B ) are defensive and/or self-buffs, but the Dragonborn can simply be kited by anyone with ranged attacks during the duration of these.

I agree with alot of what your saying but if people are going to argue game mechanics the argument will never end yea my dragonborn cant make spells but his weapons do over 1 million base damage before armor enchants honestly these discussions become who has better game stats for totally different games. pre shivering isles I think the dragonborn would win but post shivering isles coc better win he is a god ffs.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:16 am

Dragonborn would kill the CoC before the spell worked, especially with the resist magic. And in th case of the Staff of Sheogorath - the staff would eventually run out of charge, making it useless. Then CoC would have to return to the 'spam until spell works' method.

Besides, Dragonborn would likely have brought Lydia with him. Given her a Daedric arrow, and thus infinite Daedric arrows. She'd just pelt the CoC with these arrows while he tries to get the spell to work on the Dragonborn, and eventually Lydia and her Hunting Bow would kill the CoC.

CoC is screwed.

but the CoC has golden saints and dark seducers at his/her side.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:29 am

but the CoC has golden saints and dark seducers at his/her side.

And the Dovah has two summons, a dragon, a companion, and one of three summonable nord warriors. All without having to be a 'god'.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:08 pm

The reincarnation of Nerevar would beat both of them.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:15 am

Robbaz is king of Sweden and nipble magic. He beats everyone.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:43 pm

And the Dovah has two summons, a dragon, a companion, and one of three summonable nord warriors. All without having to be a 'god'.

and when i say golden saints and dark seducers he has an army. but minus the army he has summon flesh atronach. better then the fire and ice ones. and that guardian that guard the doors to the shivering isles. and a mage from the mages guild that follows him. and lucius ghost from the dark brother hood.and a follower from the fighters guild so its even man. but dont get me wrong skyrim is my ish

oh and the fan from the arena who would annoy the dragon born to death lol

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:27 am

Dragonborn would kill the CoC before the spell worked, especially with the resist magic. And in th case of the Staff of Sheogorath - the staff would eventually run out of charge, making it useless. Then CoC would have to return to the 'spam until spell works' method.

Besides, Dragonborn would likely have brought Lydia with him. Given her a Daedric arrow, and thus infinite Daedric arrows. She'd just pelt the CoC with these arrows while he tries to get the spell to work on the Dragonborn, and eventually Lydia and her Hunting Bow would kill the CoC.

CoC is screwed.

Staff of Sheogorath is an AOE effect, and if I remember correct, spammable. He can hit both Lydia and Dragonborn, not to mention stay perma-invisible. Lydia can't see him, nor can Dragonborn unless one of his hands is spamming a spell (can't use a bow) OR he takes time to shout (more than enough time to be frozen in time). He can also buff his speed to ridiculous amounts so that hitting him with a bow becomes a luck factor.

I agree with alot of what your saying but if people are going to argue game mechanics the argument will never end yea my dragonborn cant make spells but his weapons do over 1 million base damage before armor enchants honestly these discussions become who has better game stats for totally different games. pre shivering isles I think the dragonborn would win but post shivering isles coc better win he is a god ffs.

But HOW are you gonna hit someone with that 1 billion damage sword? That's what people are failing to grasp. Yes, the sword is very shiny and nice, but 3 out of the 5 protagonists are masters at dodging/resisting damage altogether; hell, one of them is going to reflect that 1 billion points of damage back at you. The Nerevarine for example knows a magic spell called "Sanctuary" that gives him cat-like reflexes, to the point where it's IMPOSSIBLE to hit him with anything physical as long as the spell is up. He can also get 100% magic resistance to avoid being paralyzed. The CoC, see above. The Courier, he's perceiving time at matrix intervals and he runs quite fast; hitting him with any projectile is gonna be beyond difficult (it's actually to the point where it fully relies on him screwing up, which isn't gonna happen. You can't just "shoot at where he's going to be" when he has ample time to just change his direction), and getting him in range for a melee attack? Not unless he so chooses.

The Lone Wanderer embodies this flawed philosophy. The Lone Wanderer has a nuke that could probably one-shot any of the protagonists and he has the maximum armor defense rating possible. The problem? Managing the shot. He's practically a sitting duck, because while yes, he deals crazy damage, he has no way to guarentee a hit, whereas the CoC, Nerevarine and the Courier have ways to guarentee they can dodge/resist/avoid damage. The Dragonborn isn't much better than the Lone Wanderer, because he has very limited tools at his disposal.
So the Lone Wanderer and the Dragonborn are sitting ducks. Some people might claim stalemate, but there's a problem: the CoC can repeatedly attempt a OHKO until it works and the Courier can stun you for a VERY long time (30 seconds per punch), then proceed to cut into you with a weapon that ignores armor rating (chainsaw). Hence, the Dragonborn and the Lone Wanderer are the two worst protagonists Bethesda has produced and it always amazes me to see people saying Dragonborn is the best thing ever "becuz he shouts."

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:13 pm

and when i say golden saints and dark seducers he has an army. but minus the army he has summon flesh atronach. better then the fire and ice ones. and that guardian that guard the doors to the shivering isles. and a mage from the mages guild that follows him. and lucius ghost from the dark brother hood.and a follower from the fighters guild so its even man

Most of his powers are only available in his realm though. Including his army. He still thinks CoC is screwed. Again, assuming that we're talking about the Sheogorath CoC. Not that armies matter to a dovahkiin with armor that makes him practically invulnerable and weapons that can kill anything with one hit.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:22 am

but the CoC has golden saints and dark seducers at his/her side.

He can also summon Liches.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:17 pm

Hero of Kvatch would win because of he can create his own overpowered spells.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:44 pm

On another note, what if at the end of Skyrim DLC, Dovah becomes.... -wait for it- .... JYGGALAG! Eh, eh! Betcha didn't see that one coming.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:22 pm

The champion of cyrodiil for sure. No game has ever done what oblivion has done for me. Greatest game ever. The dragonborn is good.. Not that good. When I become a daedric prince as the dragonborn maybe that will change

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:07 pm

i forgot CoC has dragonbone armor. was it any good? never waited the week to get it skyrim came out.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:13 am

On another note, what if at the end of Skyrim DLC, Dovah becomes.... -wait for it- .... JYGGALAG! Eh, eh! Betcha didn't see that one coming.

Not gonna lie I was thinking of something like that right before I read that. Something that takes the dragonborn to new sheoth and kill sheogorath (or something) or some other way becoming a daedric prince

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:49 am

i forgot CoC has dragonbone armor. was it any good? never waited the week to get it skyrim came out.

Nope. svcked eggs. It's worse than Dwarven.

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:57 pm

No game has ever done what oblivion has done for me. Greatest game ever.

I almost died laughing. I thought you were serious when I first read it. Then logic prevailed.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:59 am

Honestly though, the Nerevarine would kick both of their asses if he used the Fortify Intelligence Potion loop exploit. He could create potions with Fortify Strength 23,000 Points (Allowing him to 1 shot even a Resto Glitched Dovahkiin), plus the Fortify Intelligence +17,000 Potions would boost his Enchanting to absolutely insane levels, plus he has more item slots to wear godly enchanted items. He can get up to 100 points of Sanctuary and 100% Resist Magic, making him dodge 100% of attacks aimed at him and also be completely immune to magic. He could Fortify his Speed, Athletics and Acrobatics so much that he could zip around all of Tamriel within seconds while jumping over not only the tallest's buildings, but he'd jump so high as to make the Giant's Space Program look like a bunny hop. That's how the Nerevarine got to Akavir. He simply leaped over all of Tamriel and the ocean to Akavir.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:40 am

On another note, what if at the end of Skyrim DLC, Dovah becomes.... -wait for it- .... JYGGALAG! Eh, eh! Betcha didn't see that one coming.

I'm looking forward to this DLC now!! lol

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:17 pm

Most of his powers are only available in his realm though. Including his army. He still thinks CoC is screwed. Again, assuming that we're talking about the Sheogorath CoC. Not that armies matter to a dovahkiin with armor that makes him practically invulnerable and weapons that can kill anything with one hit.

well outside his realm companion wise he doesnt have the army or the monster guardian. but he has lusics ghost. a high ranking member of the dark brotherhood turn invisible and go in for a back stab while the CoC distracts the dragon born and his other companions distract the others? i think so. but like i said before all in fun i love debates

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:02 am

Staff of Sheogorath is an AOE effect, and if I remember correct, spammable. He can hit both Lydia and Dragonborn, not to mention stay perma-invisible. Lydia can't see him, nor can Dragonborn unless one of his hands is spamming a spell (can't use a bow) OR he takes time to shout (more than enough time to be frozen in time). He can also buff his speed to ridiculous amounts so that hitting him with a bow becomes a luck factor.

But HOW are you gonna hit someone with that 1 billion damage sword? That's what people are failing to grasp. Yes, the sword is very shiny and nice, but 3 out of the 5 protagonists are masters at dodging/resisting damage altogether; hell, one of them is going to reflect that 1 billion points of damage back at you. The Nerevarine for example knows a magic spell called "Sanctuary" that gives him cat-like reflexes, to the point where it's IMPOSSIBLE to hit him with anything physical as long as the spell is up. He can also get 100% magic resistance to avoid being paralyzed. The CoC, see above. The Courier, he's perceiving time at matrix intervals and he runs quite fast; hitting him with any projectile is gonna be beyond difficult (it's actually to the point where it fully relies on him screwing up, which isn't gonna happen. You can't just "shoot at where he's going to be" when he has ample time to just change his direction), and getting him in range for a melee attack? Not unless he so chooses.

The Lone Wanderer embodies this flawed philosophy. The Lone Wanderer has a nuke that could probably one-shot any of the protagonists and he has the maximum armor defense rating possible. The problem? Managing the shot. He's practically a sitting duck, because while yes, he deals crazy damage, he has no way to guarentee a hit, whereas the CoC, Nerevarine and the Courier have ways to guarentee they can dodge/resist/avoid damage. The Dragonborn isn't much better than the Lone Wanderer, because he has very limited tools at his disposal.
So the Lone Wanderer and the Dragonborn are sitting ducks. Some people might claim stalemate, but there's a problem: the CoC can repeatedly attempt a OHKO until it works and the Courier can stun you for a VERY long time (30 seconds per punch), then proceed to cut into you with a weapon that ignores armor rating (chainsaw). Hence, the Dragonborn and the Lone Wanderer are the two worst protagonists Bethesda has produced and it always amazes me to see people saying Dragonborn is the best thing ever "becuz he shouts."

im not arguing with you no where in my post did I say the dragonborn would win because of shouts strictly speaking of elderscrolls no fallout because I realise that a rifle/nuke will beat a sword anyday the point is you cant argue game mechanics for in this case 3 different games I also said that if this is post shivering isles that the dragonborn would get his ass kicked , pre shivering isles its diffrent at that point CoC isnt immortal and it would be a better fight now if we are going to bring the nerevarine killed 2 gods and CoC daedric prince or not is in trouble

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:22 pm

well outside his realm companion wise he doesnt have the army or the monster guardian. but he has lusics ghost. a high ranking member of the dark brotherhood turn invisible and go in for a back stab while the CoC distracts the dragon born and his other companions distract the others? i think so. but like i said before all in fun i love debates

Dovah has Lucius too. So they would just summon him back and forth. XD He'd feel like Haskil!!

» Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:22 pm

That would be one DLC. Its pretty much certain that Skyrim will have at least 2 DLC's. Who knows, maybe the 2nd DLC will have us taken into godhood, like Talos. I highly doubt it, but you never know. There are several possibilities for improvement of the Dovahkiin in the 2nd DLC. Plus, we are going to Soul Cairn in this DLC, who knows what will happen there.

Yeah, it's about time for Lorkhan/Shor to re-emerge

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:30 am

im not arguing with you no where in my post did I say the dragonborn would win because of shouts strictly speaking of elderscrolls no fallout because I realise that a rifle/nuke will beat a sword anyday the point is you cant argue game mechanics for in this case 3 different games I also said that if this is post shivering isles that the dragonborn would get his ass kicked , pre shivering isles its diffrent at that point CoC isnt immortal and it would be a better fight now if we are going to bring the nerevarine killed 3 gods and CoC daedric prince or not is in trouble

The Nerevarine killed 2 Gods (Dagoth-Ur and Almalexia) as well as defeated the Daedric Prince, Hircine. Although, seeing as how evil Vivec turned out to be after the Nerevarine Prophecy came true, i wish we did kill Vivec as canon.

» Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:50 am

The Nerevarine killed 2 Gods (Dagoth-Ur and Almalexia) as well as defeated the Daedric Prince, Hircine.

thanks for the correction couldnt remember if he got vivec or not