I like to role play a person playing a role in a role playing game.

Yeah, uhuh. Almost 100 posts, so it's time we start talking seriously?

But okay, I'll try to give an example of what I had in mind. It may require to read the whole wall of text though, so please don't bother if you're going to stop in between.


So there's Mr. Ancient Lich with his plenty of treasures sitting around in his cave studying magic stuff all day long. He doesn't care much about 'em vandalizing dragons, being all hidden and comfy in his little cave, just enjoying a delicious glass of wine while reading another of his thousands of ancient book of magics.

I'm asking that the game is putting me into a situation where challenging this lich to a duel would be a mistake or at least unwise. This creature has dedicated not one a single lifetime but several of those to the study of magic.

I'd like to experience this encounter without the premise of knowing that I can beat him up - even if not, I know I'm just going to come back in a few days when I'm stronger or have better equipment. This doesn't leave me with the slightest bit of anxiety or feeling of challenge.

This doesn't yet mean that the lich should cheat to maintain invincibility as the essentials in oblivion did, to make sure there's really no way to beat him. It may have been necessary in oblivion but it was no doubt lame.

But saying that the lich would be just very hard to defeat is absolutely meaningless. We would have assumed that to be the case for the dragons or Alduin or surely some other strong monsters in Skyrim as well - and we beat them anyway.

I'm expecting this lich to use the wisdom and knowledge he refined over hundreds of years. I'm expecting him to wield some strange/strong magic, that I haven't encountered so far. It may be slightly discouraging that you can't cast these spells yourself, but you're not flying around breathing fire as dragons do either. You didn't have 1000 years on your hand to research these kind of spells either, so give Mr. Lich some credibility.

Anyway, his constant exposure to magic made him almost immune to it - and to my dragonvoice as well - which makes me so special in the first place. But well, too bad that his body doesn't even hold much meaning, as long as his phyllactery is secure. So he's just going to revive in one of his dozens of minions that he carefully prepared for the eventuality of being beaten once.

So I settle for the next best step: devise a cunning plan to rob him of his riches. Distract him and snatch his stuff - approach and offer him an exchange of sorts - find and damage his phyllactery which will make him disappear for some time which will seriously piss him off and let him haunt you in some other way - like create minions that are out to get you, even after his true death. A 1000yo old lich surely could come up with some ideas and the means to implement them.

In the end, even if we in fact allow a 1% chance to defeat this foe - we may have realized by now, that it is not really worth the trouble.

This lich has no direct impact on anything else in the game. He's just there to test your other skills aside beating up things. He can be just one measly little sidequest of this whole game, that otherwise lets you be heroic, epic and just perfect on every single other occasion.

Were it not for those little reminders of our mortality we'd be giving in to the barbaric mindset that the only inevitable solution to every conflict is to dispose of your adversary. If TES is really about freedom of play then is this really too much to ask for?

"I should be some kind of badass walking pwnage-machine. Any limitations in my skills are taking away my rightful freedom of crushing anything that looks funny at me."

What would have happened if you couldn't save Martin Septim in time? Doom the world (and yourself - because otherwise you'd only be villain instead) and give it your best shot - see how long you can survive against the invading daedra armies.

Hmm... Very Mature.

You do realize that Skyrim is actually the game that I'm suggesting things for? I'm complaining at the the demi-god nature of the past games. Y'know what, nevermind... :rolleyes:

In a video game, where unfortunately life will always be somewhat linear....I see no point in trying to excel at anything if the end result is me being less than the best.

That's a bit uncalled for. Making sweeping insults about people (including fellow users here) based on using a perfectly valid word because you don't like it isn't really necessary. The irony is that you spent paragraphs explaining how you hate the word cliché because its overused and its overuse has resulted in its loss of proper function. If only there were just one word we could use to describe an expression, concept, or phrase that is overused to the point of losing value, so that you could express yourself without spanning paragraphs and spewing out thoughtless rage.

If you want to discuss the subject, try expressing your opinions on the subject rather than your expert opinion on people who use specific words, of whom I'm sure you're all well acquainted.

I really don't care how other people play the game, it's not a MMORPG.
I just enjoy how I play it.

That has to be the most well-stated point concerning this thread's topic. The only reason I saw fit to respond to the OP and subsequent posters is because they started whining about TES' storyline, writing, gameplay model, and the fact that THEY don't like the "hero mentality". One opinion to counter another, only to find that no matter what is said, after 7 pages, everyone will still play the way they see fit, and Bethesda will certainly not change how they make TES games because of our arguments. Bethesda wins. Every time.

Ultimate point ---------- Play how you want, but don't [censored] and moan at other people on the forum because they like to play differently. That goes both ways here.

I don't necessarily disagree with you, although I would have to ask what other purpose ... let's say 80% of the topics in this - or any - forum serve, if you're killing any sign of disagreement with the developers with your killer argument "you can do nothing about that anyway".

We don't always start conversations on the premise of having to change anyone's mind. Sometimes getting new ideas or simply expressing yourself is fair enough.

I like to be the hero, too, in the end. I just want a more difficult path to get there, in Oblivion things were too obvious too fast, "I saw you in my dreams" and that was it. I want to really feel like an escaped convict first, to feel people's mistrust (Gothic did a better job here), to struggle to access the guilds, the cities and the world's resources like the nobody I am, and then slowly earn communities' trust, ranks, fortune, access to politics and thus being given the chance to become famous and eventually the big hero. I want this curve to be as slow as necessary so as to feel all the social positions properly. There is no greater reward when you're the hero than knowing how you started and what you became.

Also, side note to you: I don't disagree with your right to play as you see fit, but I don't think you should necessarily call it out as a fault in game design that I can become a "pwnage machine" if I please. TES has always been about the ability to choose. Some call it freedom, but I call it better choice options, as I don't believe any game will ever have "freedom" until we can hook one up to our brains and make it out of our imagination.

This is one of the reason's I loved Demon's Souls.

You weren't some kind of godly warrior or chosen one, you were a nobody.

You could get killed by lowly dreglings in the first stage easily if you weren't prepared. You were human.

It also gave you this amazing since of accomplishment when you killed a powerful demon, not with brute force but with cunning and skill.

It meant something.

TES isn't the series to look for if you want this though.