I'm sorry, but I have to continue the quote war

Cider:

It's not a guess, without any allies they have nothing. The Shatter-shields wouldn't be the only ones to aid them and they're going to lose all their business due to the east empire company and other factors and they have no allies to resupply them and have nothing to aid them. Silver-bloods have to deal with a more angry or driven forsworn rebellion, and the gray-manes while being one of the oldest families in whiterun aren't exactly rolling in septims.

They can live off the land and survive on donation from sympathetic citizens. Maybe they'll be forced to use their imagination.

Funding can be done but the problem is you can't fund a rebellion that has almost no figure to rally behind or reinforcements

The Thalmor provides those reinforcements simply by going about their usual business. And a leader can quickly be appointed. There must be one individual in the SC army who is a capable commander and has earned the respect of his/her men.

The legions have more soldiers, more troops, more people to recruit to make up the loses

And they need every singly one of them at the AD border.

Yes, very true because again THEY HAVE NO ALLIES TO HELP THEM

Except the Thalmor (indirectly, of course)

Yes, 100% true. All the stormcloak supporting jarls have no power nor did they actually have much to begin with if we look at Riften and Dawnstar, two places that weren't fully behind the stormcloaks with winterhold being to small to actually support an army. They also have no allies or sympathizers outside of skyrim.

They literally have no safety net to fall back on, with the death of Ulfric they'll become demoralized only to be made worse by Legion reinforcements coming in to deal with any stormcloak remnants. The stormcloaks can hide in their hills but you know what? The legion has been in skyrim for ages, they know the land well too, they have nords supporting them, they still have jarls that can take power even if the stormcloaks win.

It's not that the Legion can't handle the SCs. It's handling them while securing the border that gets problematic. And those legion reinforcements are only mentioned if the SC take Falreath.

They can live off the land and survive on donation from sympathetic citizens. Maybe they'll be forced to use their imagination.

True but that won't fund a force big enough to actually kick out the Imperial Legion especially if the Legion gets more reinforcements.

The Thalmor provides those reinforcements simply by going about their usual business. And a leader can quickly be appointed. There must be one individual in the SC army who is a capable commander and has earned the respect of his/her men.

And where are they going to get these magical reinforcements? Are the Thalmor going to openly aid the stormcloaks? Mercenaries aren't going to commit treason which is punishable by death in order for some quick money and even if they do there is no guarantee they'll be loyal or even be a match to a legion force.

And they need every singly one of them at the AD border.

Not really, no. Not if that we know the Empire is sending reinforcements to skyrim. Even then there is nothing to state that the war against the Dominion NEEDS OR WILL happen in the time directly after skyrim, it could be another 30 years, hell even less then 20 years is enough to get more reinforcements and skyrim proves this because again, most of the legion in skyrim is nothing but fresh recruits.

Except the Thalmor (indirectly, of course)

in·di·rect·ly
?ind??rektlē/
adverb
adverb: indirectly

1.
in a way that is not directly caused by something; incidentally.

Since you seem to be having trouble with that word. The Thalmor funding the rebellion? Yes, that's likely but actually fully 100% aiding it and supporting it? Doubt it.

It's not that the Legion can't handle the SCs. It's handling them while securing the border that gets problematic. And those legion reinforcements are only mentioned if the SC take Falreath.

Except that it takes months to move troops, supplies, gear, get them ready to fight and clean a mountainous pass of an avalanche. Even nowadays it would take months to a year to do all of that. Yes, the note only shows up is Falkreath is in stormcloak hands but the actual process isn't as soon as they did. It would've taken months to get it all organized.

Face it, the Stormcloaks without Ulfric are doomed. At most there would be a minor stubborn force that'll eventually get stomped out and end with the rebellion crushed.

Posted by Cider:

True but that won't fund a force big enough to actually kick out the Imperial Legion especially if the Legion gets more reinforcements.

Maybe not, but they don't have to kick out the Legion for the Thalmor to be satisfied. And of course, less men on the border .

The Thalmor provides those reinforcements simply by going about their usual business. And a leader can quickly be appointed. There must be one individual in the SC army who is a capable commander and has earned the respect of his/her men.

And where are they going to get these magical reinforcements? Are the Thalmor going to openly aid the stormcloaks? Mercenaries aren't going to commit treason which is punishable by death in order for some quick money and even if they do there is no guarantee they'll be loyal or even be a match to a legion force.

The Thalmor arresting and torturing Talos worshipers is a source for grievance among the population hence more possible recruits for the rebels.

Not really, no. Not if that we know the Empire is sending reinforcements to skyrim. Even then there is nothing to state that the war against the Dominion NEEDS OR WILL happen in the time directly after skyrim, it could be another 30 years, hell even less then 20 years is enough to get more reinforcements and skyrim proves this because again, most of the legion in skyrim is nothing but fresh recruits.

We only know of reinforcements once things start going south in Skyrim. Why not send reinforcements sooner? Why not bring several legions to Skyrim and end it quickly? The only explanation that makes sense to me is that the Dominion threat is considered much more important. I guess, if someone is pointing a gun at your head then the burning oven suddenly doesn't seem that important. So in a sense Tullius is correct when he states that the Civil War in Skyrim is a mere side show.

in·di·rect·ly
?ind??rektlē/
adverb
adverb: indirectly

1.
in a way that is not directly caused by something; incidentally.

Since you seem to be having trouble with that word. The Thalmor funding the rebellion? Yes, that's likely but actually fully 100% aiding it and supporting it? Doubt it.

Yes English is not my first language. What I meant by indirectly is that the Thalmor simply can't walk up to the SCs and give them money. And I would not underestimate the Dominion. The Empire did it and look what happened.

Except that it takes months to move troops, supplies, gear, get them ready to fight and clean a mountainous pass of an avalanche. Even nowadays it would take months to a year to do all of that. Yes, the note only shows up is Falkreath is in stormcloak hands but the actual process isn't as soon as they did. It would've taken months to get it all organized.

True, but for all we know months may have passed between the takeover of Whiterun and Falkreath hold.

Face it, the Stormcloaks without Ulfric are doomed. At most there would be a minor stubborn force that'll eventually get stomped out and end with the rebellion crushed.

If only it was that simple.

The only reason the Stormcloaks are not a bloody paste on the heel of an Imperial boot is because the Empire has to secure their borders, build other forces up, and deal with the Stormcloaks. They have a hundred different things that they are doing in Tamriel at the time of the Stormcloak rebellion that they have to re-route reinforcements to Skyrim and also make sure the rest of the Empire is getting the attention it needs. Ulfric doesn't have to worry about this, he is playing war on a small scale if he defeats the Empire (which would be surprising to say the least) there is no way he would be able to operate on a larger scale. The Stormcloaks are not a professional army, they are a band of rebels that would stand no chance in an actual conflict.

So they kick the Empire out of Skyrim who is to say that the Thalmor don't just get fed up and say "Hey Emperor if you can't kill them then we will." the Thalmor have no sympathy for the Nords and their sense of superiority prevents them from supporting the Stormcloaks. If the Dominion enter into a conflict with the Stormcloaks that is the end of Skyrim, we are talking about a force that beat the Empire in its heyday going against farmers and deserters. Not like the Empire could lose to such a force they have all the odds stacked in their favor and the Stormcloaks are backed into a corner with no one to back them up and the odds against them.

Its like an army of soldiers (Imperials) vs a single tank with no tires or tracks (Stormcloaks), yes you can fight them off for a short while but eventually their numbers and ability to field and support large numbers are going to get the better of you and you can't flee without giving up the very land you swore to protect.

No one is saying that the SCs have any hope of defeating the entire Imperial Army. The only reason they are still in this fight is because the Empire have bigger fish to worry about. And the Thalmor will probably not invade Skyrim either as the Empire will be sending reinforcements through the Pale Pass once it's cleared.

You think the Empire is going to stand up against the Thalmor? They would rather watch Skyrim burn then risk sinking the whole ship again.

You get that the whole setup of the peace is that the Empire can rebuild and muster more forces to fight the Thalmor?

Btw Sybielle Stentor:

"Why didn't Torygg ever declare independence?"

"Becasue the food and recources we get from the empire are important to our people."

Looking at Skyrims food supply the first thing that would happen after Ulfrics victory would be a famine.

I get the rebuilding part but the major question is can the Empire rebuild enough to challenge the Thalmor? The Thalmor have a tight grip on the Empire so they can't threaten them.