Because Part 1 reached post limit and because the topic got more popular than I initially thought it would:

Please at least read the edit before posting, as it compiles a lot of the points already made in the last thread

EDIT: A few points I'd like to mention in response to specific points made in this thread.

1. I'm ok with a pre-defined backstory, to an extent. I just think the line has to be drawn somewhere. The difference between Fallout 3's pre-determined story and 4's story is that most people have a childhood of some sort and parents in some form. It's easy to make almost any character imaginable. Not everyone is a parent with a nice house, a child, and a job in the military, and some characters just don't work very well unless you really want to stretch it. Sure, both games have a somewhat restricting backstory, but one is easier to work around. One has objectively less details than the other. New Vegas has even less restrictions, allowing me to easily use mods to create literally any character I want (A ghoul, a child, a super mutant, etc). 4's story will be a bit more difficult to create mods like this around, because no matter what, you have a spouse and children that are seemingly important to the main plot, so certain character types can't work.

2. To those saying I'm not a good roleplayer if I can't work around having a family, and to Norgrim, who implied I'm "childish" for not wanting to be a family-man: It's not that I can't work around it, only that I'd rather not have to if given the choice. Someone earlier brought up my teenage baseball-player character, who fights evil with his rusty baseball bat, and claimed he is still a viable character in Fallout 4, meaning he'd be a teenage father fresh out of high school who for some reason has his own house. Again, I could work around that, but it's still a bit of a stretch. My psychotic anarchist cannibal has no choice but to start off as someone who at least pretends to love his family and child. Someone earlier stated "he could be a con artist!", but you're forcing my character to be a subtle and calculating criminal when he would rather set a suburban neighborhood on fire than even pretend to raise a family in one. I honestly don't understand how anyone can say that this forced family doesn't limit opportunities to create our own characters, at least slightly.

3. I have a major concern about the voiced character and the mass effect style dialogue trees. Here's a quote from someone who brought this up earlier:

Obviously this is hyperbole, but it raises an important potential issue. Now I may be acting a bit alarmist here, but what do you guys think? How will all of the perk-related dialogue fit in? How do we deal with the fact that we're not seeing the entirety of our dialogue choices, only vague topics? Note, in the demo, when the player chooses the "get food" option, and yet instead of asking for food, the character gives a completely different response than what "get food" would imply. Things like this happen all the time in Bioware games, sometimes forcing me to reload because I viciously insulted a character I thought I was going to be playfully teasing. Having a voiced character also means a forced delivery of each line that may or may not fit your character's personality. This, more than anything, makes me nervous about Fallout 4.

So that's it for my rambling, let's continue this discussion.

Hmm, very interesting points. Having a pre-determined character or not is not a selling point for me. Though having that backstory and knowing my character does have a history with the world before the bombs fell is quite exciting. That moment when you speak to certain NPCs and they say "Wait....I know you." Very much like the PC approaching Codsworth after awaking from Vault 111. I like that. It creates a sense of purpose and meaning.

Not to mention the fact, like another guy has pointed out in another post, that almost everyone you know so far (except Codsworth) have died, you are simply given a clean slate.

A clean slate to start anew. You could forget your past or even cling to it. You could act however you want.

This is such a non-issue to me. That could be because I have been married and had a kid(s) before, and am married now but have no kids as they are all grown. I see it this way:

We have all probably at some point in our life made choices or decisions we felt in hindsight were made more because it was expected of us more than we simply made the choice on our own. This marriage can be viewed through that lens. Society, especially a 1950's type society, would expect a man and woman to marry and have children and live the American Dream. Think "Ozzy and Harriet" or "Leave it to Beaver". There is nothing said about who you were before you married. My character will be like I was, rebellious and troubled, settled down, got "freedom" from that "settling" and went a little wild again. The pre-war period we spend on our PC should or could simply be viewed as a "phase" we went through.

Just like real life, that phase does not have to define who we are right now (or in this case, who we are post apocalypse).

This may or may not be the case. I'm willing to bet your history plays into the main quest. I'm also willing to bet your family is still alive in some form (why else would they put so much effort into designing the baby around both parents?).

Either way, it's not that I can't just "forget" about my past and insert my own, but that I'd rather not have to if given the choice. You can literally do that in any game with enough mental gymnastics. I can play the Witcher and pretend Geralt is someone totally different. I can play Mario and pretend I'm a secret agent and not a magical plumber. The fact remains that sometimes I like to play games that build themselves around a character I create. A character that may have a basic backstory, which is fine, but at the end of the day is mine to shape.

As I said, the reason I dislike this backstory is that it's so detailed (compared to previous games) that there are some characters I literally can't make anymore. Every character HAS to be a military veteran, at least in his mid-twenties, has his own house, a spouse, and a child that he at least pretends to love. I can't get around that no matter what. Each game had some backstory, but none quite as detailed and restricting as this. Yes, I can make my character whomever I want AFTER the fact, but it doesn't change the fact that those same traits will always exist with every single character I make. I know you think that the protagonists past will never become relevant ever again, but we don't know that yet. I'm willing to bet, based on how storytelling works, that they wont just never mention your family or job again. I'm willing to bet that it plays a role in the story, just like they did in Fallout 3. The difference here is that even MORE is decided for you than in Fallout 3

Yes, Fallout 3 had some restrictions, but they were easier to work around and there were less of them.

Now that the previous thread is finally locked, we can continue the discussion here. Let's discuss.

A bit of a spurious argument with regards to Fallout though. It's society followed a 50's aesthetic for the future, but it's not a 50's society. It had women in combat roles in the military, not to mention interracial marriages without comment as can be done in Fallout 4 itself.

And yet we can't have a gay couple because "that wasn't allowed back then".

But that's a conversation for another thread.

I am just going to leave this here: Before the rants and arguments start up again, think about what you would be willing to give up for free character customization.

That's a poor thing to say, stating we have to give up things for free character customization. Fallout has always been about making your own character, even 1,2 and tactics let you either pick from pre-made character or re-design them. Sure they included portraits but that really doesn't mean much when you can re-write their history and skills.

And all but one was made by other companies. The one game that was BGS was one that was pretty pre-defined, yet I found the story of THAT game much better than one where I can create my own character.

Did you read my post at all? I already addressed this.

"I'm ok with a pre-defined backstory, to an extent. I just think the line has to be drawn somewhere. The difference between Fallout 3's pre-determined story and 4's story is that most people have a childhood of some sort and parents in some form. It's easy to make almost any character imaginable. Not everyone is a parent with a nice house, a child, and a job in the military, and some characters just don't work very well unless you really want to stretch it. Sure, both games have a somewhat restricting backstory, but one is easier to work around. One has objectively less details than the other. New Vegas has even less restrictions, allowing me to easily use mods to create literally any character I want (A ghoul, a child, a super mutant, etc). 4's story will be a bit more difficult to create mods like this around, because no matter what, you have a spouse and children that are seemingly important to the main plot, so certain character types can't work.

What people seem to be missing is the difference between FO3/FO:NVs pre-determined features and those in FO4s.

It's not gonna stop me. The mind is more powerful than any gaming rig, so i'll just imagine that the whole pre-war biz is just a bad acid trip. Anything from pre-war that ties in later in the game will be treated as a flashback.

While I know it's a big deal for some, I'm not confronted.

Fallout 3, I found the story much more engaging than that of New Vegas. New Vegas, in my opinion, was average at best. Character creation is not all important.

Hell, I just played NV again and ALREADY forgot what it was about.

Character creation is very important to people, it may not be important TO YOU but to others it is a big and very important deal.

At the end of the day I can get past it too, but the problem is that I can do that in any game. I roleplay in Jak and Daxter and pretend I'm a totally different character. I can play Mario and pretend I'm a secret agent and not a super-powered plumber. The difference here is that sometimes I want to play a game that facilitates my character-building, a game built around it that directly supports it. I'm okay with some pre-determined details, but like I said, the amount of established details and choice determined for you in Fallout 4 (military man, spouse, nice house, children, etc) is a bit too much for tastes.

Exactly. Fallout 3 was fine. It had just enough detail given. That's fine. The only issue there was the age of your character being forced upon you (that didn't bother me at all because I'm young but I can see how it would bother others). I think 3 struck a much better balance between a pre-determined character and a blank slate than 4 seems to be doing.

Hell, I am certain that I can enjoy fallout 4 more than three if the story is good enough. I dare say that I enjoyed 3 more than Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim COMBINED! All because The story was engaging. The Character Creator/balance, in my opinion WAS NOT NEEDED.

Why are you continuing to rehash this?...The game is pretty much done...They're not going to change this.

All you're doing at this point is moaning and trying to get other moaners to post the same thing.

You made your point you don't like it, others don't care. Play the game or not if it bothers you that much. It's a simple choice.

Really wish the forum mods would start locking these crying threads.

I'm too lazy to make up a back story, so I'm perfectly fine with it. I'll define my character as I play the game.

We're allowed to criticize the game, we're not "crying" as you so offensive put it.

one person's "criticize" is another person's "crying" y'know.

Nope, saying we're "crying" about it doesn't mean we actually are. Saying such is just a straight out attack against people because they're saying bad things about the game.

MY point was that it does not matter what you say, people are going to see things their way.

The game world is based on America of the 1950's. Back then, being gay was still considered a mental illness, and was hidden deeply behind closed doors. (generally locked as well...) So it isn't surprising that option isn't there for this particular iteration of the game. You START as a Husband/Father, that might last about 20 minutes game-time, after that, it's anything goes. You can be who, or what, you want. Want to be gay? Fine, maybe back before the war, you were simply married, with a child, to maintain appearances, and nights and weekends you spent at the gay bar, or whatever. Anything can be worked around. Just use your imagination. Who you are before the war, pretty much has zero bearing on who you become, after the war.