"The Infernal City" Discussion Thread : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:58 pm

Well, logically speaking

Yes, logic would tell you that, wouldn't it? But history isn't governed by logic, history is a record of human action. And human action is not always (or even most of the time) governed by logic.

Can't go into real-world stuff here, but read a few history books.

Hmm, yes, I read a book about Stalin. He indirectly killed millions upon millions of Russians. He died of a stroke at the old age of 74.

And I read another book about Cecil Rhodes. After he stomped across Africa, killing, wounding, and displacing thousands of Africans in the process. He was assassinat...oh wait. He died of heart failure at 49 as one of the richest men in the world.

Read a good book about the way Timur the Lame scourged his way across Asia, slaughtering entire populations in genocide. He was killed... Caught me lying again! Died of fever and plague at age 68 while going to China to slaughter its people. Luckily enough for them.

...

I am not being cynical. :stare:

» Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:59 am

Yes, logic would tell you that, wouldn't it? But history isn't governed by logic, history is a record of human action. And human action is not always (or even most of the time) governed by logic.

Hmm, yes, I read a book about Stalin. He indirectly killed millions upon millions of Russians. He died of a stroke at the old age of 74.

Nobody really knows what happened to Stalin. Some say he died of a stroke, like you said, but some say he was poisoned.

» Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:25 pm

Either way, its illegal political talk. I think the reason no one will stand up to Vuhon is not human illogical behavior, but the simple fact that he has a giant floating island that turns everyone into zombies. Short of internal sabotage or very powerful magic, there is no way to combat that thing. Few people are stupid enough to try.

» Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:44 pm

Either way, its illegal political talk. I think the reason no one will stand up to Vuhon is not human illogical behavior, but the simple fact that he has a giant floating island that turns everyone into zombies. Short of internal sabotage or very powerful magic, there is no way to combat that thing. Few people are stupid enough to try.

They could call up Medora and have her fling it toward Akavir. She's got the magic mojo.

» Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:49 pm

but some say he was poisoned.

I've actually never heard that story before.

Either way, its illegal political talk.

Alas. I would argue it is historical discussion, but I guess Stalin is recent enough to be considered political. Though I doubt anyone on this forum is old enough to have coexisted at the same time as him.

I think the reason no one will stand up to Vuhon is not human illogical behavior,

Me neither. Just trying to point out that everything in history wasn't done for logical reasons.

but the simple fact that he has a giant floating island that turns everyone into zombies. Short of internal sabotage or very powerful magic, there is no way to combat that thing. Few people are stupid enough to try.

I was going to say that the more people you kill, the less likely it was to be killed. But it doesn't have any truth to it, and it would have gone against my point besides. I do agree that the fact that Umbriel is pretty much unstoppable is a good reason why it may never be stopped before it reaches the Imperial City.

» Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:17 am

They could call up Medora and have her fling it toward Akavir. She's got the magic mojo.

Come on now, do we really want Zombie Immortal Vampire Snakemen?

» Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:41 am

Come on now, do we really want Zombie Immortal Vampire Snakemen?

As long as they ride zombie weresharks to battle.

» Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:58 pm

Come on now, do we really want Zombie Immortal Vampire Snakemen?

Maybe not, but there could be zombie snowmen instead. We could stop them with sunny weather if they came to Tamriel.

» Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:58 am

Vuhon is gonna take Umbriel to Solstheim? [censored], haven't the poor Dunmer been through enough? :sad:

» Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:18 am

Vuhon is gonna take Umbriel to Solstheim? [censored], haven't the poor Dunmer been through enough? :sad:

Just look at the Orcs. They are always treated as the bane of Tamriel, and only have one city. Maybe the Dunmer should man up.

» Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:10 am

Just look at the Orcs. They are always treated as the bane of Tamriel, and only have one city. Maybe the Dunmer should man up.

They only control the borders of one territory that is wholly theirs, they are all over western Tamriel in smaller groups.

» Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:33 pm

Vuhon is gonna take Umbriel to Solstheim? [censored], haven't the poor Dunmer been through enough? :sad:

Quite down would you? your ruining it for people like me... look, the less dunmer there are, the more money they sell on the slave market... double the money? TRIPLE the money? Rare exotic elves ANYONE?

now where were those slave markets?... oh... oh... dammit!

» Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:33 am

Vuhon is gonna take Umbriel to Solstheim? [censored], haven't the poor Dunmer been through enough? :sad:

I don't think so. I'm re-reading it again, but I think he was sending moles there. This will be his downfall, mark me. He really should be handling it personally, but his goal is just so close! A straight line and he has at last freed himself from the constant fear of Vile forever! So he sends a mole to find Umbra, and that mole will be stopped by Sul and Attrebus.

About Annaig: I think I know what the problem is. A good protagonist (like the other protagonists in the novel, for instance) should be a doer. Things should happen because of their actions, they shouldn't "just" react to things. With the exception of the flying potion, all Annaig has done is react. Glim has been learning the sumps, Attrebus and Sul have been all over the Empire, and Colin has been following leads. She's been reacting to poisonings, worm six offers, and making a potion.

» Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:46 pm

Well, logically speaking if you kill a lot of people the people who are still alive would probably want to stop you to avoid being killed or having their loved ones be killed, and therefore resistance tends to go up the more atrocities you commit. Can't go into real-world stuff here, but read a few history books.

Either that, or your atrocities create an atmosphere of quasi-religious terror of your wrath and you live the rest of your days in power and comfort while your people are oppressed and exploited for your benefit; and if for some reason you are taken out, it's not by an angry peasant striking a blow for justice, but rather by a more ambitious and capable tyrant-in-training that you failed to notice and summarily execute. See also: most modern dictators.

» Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:58 pm

Either that, or your atrocities create an atmosphere of quasi-religious terror of your wrath and you live the rest of your days in power and comfort while your people are oppressed and exploited for your benefit; and if for some reason you are taken out, it's not by an angry peasant striking a blow for justice, but rather by a more ambitious and capable tyrant-in-training that you failed to notice and summarily execute. See also: most modern dictators.

Just look to Einstein's quotes about evil to find my response. This is off-topic, political and a basically meaningless discussion anyhow. This is the internet, after all, and most people either a teenager pretending to be an advlt and will therefore wangst about thewir own inaction in a vicious cycle or an advlt pretending to be a teenager (and there are traps in either group aplenty).

-ON TOPIC, SCREW THIS OTHER THING-

Bluuuuurgh. I'm still waiting for anything on book two. Anyone think it may be part of any future game announcements? Like if we're all right and the next GI is TESV the article inside might contain something about it?

» Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:01 am

Well, I figured I'd resurrect this thread since Keyes gave an interview to the TIL staff. Still no word on the whithertos and why-fors, but in http://www.imperial-library.info/interviews-greg-keyes he does give some insight as to his early writing process and that at least one character lives through it (no telling which or how many, just that not everyone dies).

» Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:09 pm

Time to speculate who dies!

I say...Glim is likely to bite it, because he's a Badass Normal. They tend to bite it. Vuhon is also likely to bite it, along with everyone in Umbra. Colin needs more character development for me to pass judgment, otherwise he's biting it.

But I have yet to read his other books, so I don't know how he offs his characters.

Sul, though, is most likely going to live in order to create house Sul.

» Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Time to speculate who dies!

I say...Glim is likely to bite it, because he's a Badass Normal. They tend to bite it. Vuhon is also likely to bite it, along with everyone in Umbra. Colin needs more character development for me to pass judgment, otherwise he's biting it.

But I have yet to read his other books, so I don't know how he offs his characters.

Sul, though, is most likely going to live in order to create house Sul.

Well, from what I can tell he doesn't have an "archetype A dies" way of doing things. It sort of goes with the story.

» Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:53 pm

Bluuuuurgh. I'm still waiting for anything on book two. Anyone think it may be part of any future game announcements? Like if we're all right and the next GI is TESV the article inside might contain something about it?

If Book Two isn't announced this year, I'm putting my money on it and ESV's announcements tying together.

» Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:37 am

Wow, he made proposals to the timeline? I didn't know that. He had more freedom than I would have guessed.

» Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:53 pm

If Book Two isn't announced this year, I'm putting my money on it and ESV's announcements tying together.

I'm act7ually thinking no matter when they're announced they'll be close together.

» Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:29 am

If Book Two isn't announced this year, I'm putting my money on it and ESV's announcements tying together.

I think so too. I hope an announcement comes soon. The first book distracted my attention from TESV for about...a week...

» Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:29 pm

Sul, though, is most likely going to live in order to create house Sul.

"Sul" is actually the most common Dunmer name found in lore, right among the great houses. While it does seem likely that hes somehow related to the author of the loveletter, its far from certain.

» Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:53 pm

Really? Didn't know that.

» Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:59 pm

So I'm going to guess that after Umbriel tours through Cyrodill, its going to swing up to Skyrim.