[.X chantelle .x Smith]

This thread is for discussion of the newly released Elder Scrolls Novel in full. Any discussion of the novel which includes spoilers should go here. Enjoy the discussion and If you have not read this novel and want no information about them until you do, you might want to back out of this thread and speculate in the speculation thread instead.

Enjoy!

http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1058060
http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1058959
http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1061320
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1069774-official-the-infernal-city-an-elder-scrolls-novel/

Well, the thread for full discussion of the Elder Scrolls Novels, for now just Infernal City but eventually one more and after that, who knows?

At time of writing, there is still no information on the second book.

[David John Hunter]

I finally got the novel a couple weeks ago and finished it the other day. It was fine, BUUUUUT, disappointing.

Am I the only here not satisfied with the what happened to Morrowind? Not the fact that it was completely wiped out, but what caused that cataclysmic event. Okay so the ministry of truth fell on Vivec (on the temple canton, the second farthest one from Vvardenfell, a canton floating on water...) which SOMEHOW caused Red Mountain to erupt and destroy most of the island then the Argonians of Black Marsh took the chance to exact revenge on their former slavers and drive the survivors to (lol) Solstheim. That's it? No no no, then a magical floating island came at it out of nowhere with an army of undead beneath it to kill and steal the souls of everyone within it's range, cool.

So what, Morrowind and Black Marsh don't fit in the next TES game? (which we've heard nothing about yet)

Want to get rid of the land we love? Sure go ahead, it's your story, but at least do it in a decent way...

It also left some unanswered questions like, who the hell is Titus Mede? How did he become emperor? What happened to the Blades? among others.

Sorry if this was discussed before for I didn't read much of the previous threads.

[Quick Draw]

I finally got the novel a couple weeks ago and finished it the other day. It was fine, BUUUUUT, disappointing.

Am I the only here not satisfied with the what happened to Morrowind? Not the fact that it was completely wiped out, but what caused that cataclysmic event. Okay so the ministry of truth fell on Vivec (on the temple canton, the second farthest one from Vvardenfell, a canton floating on water...) which SOMEHOW caused Red Mountain to erupt and destroy most of the island then the Argonians of Black Marsh took the chance to exact revenge on their former slavers and drive the survivors to (lol) Solstheim. That's it? No no no, then a magical floating island came at it out of nowhere with an army of undead beneath it to kill and steal the souls of everyone within it's range, cool.

So what, Morrowind and Black Marsh don't fit in the next TES game? (which we've heard nothing about yet)

Want to get rid of the land we love? Sure go ahead, it's your story, but at least do it in a decent way...

It also left some unanswered questions like, who the hell is Titus Mede? How did he become emperor? What happened to the Blades? among others.

Sorry if this was discussed before for I didn't read much of the previous threads.

it was all discussed before.

1: The meteor impact shockwave causing a volcanic eruption is quite plausible scientifically. The vibration would have caused seismic activity under the volcano and BOOM. The rest of it is really sensible on its own based on the lore or the book itself.

2. Getting rid of Morrowind was really just a means of de-stagnating the lore and making the Dunmer move as a culture, and the Black Marsh thing was started as far back as Oblivion. Morrowind being destroyed was explicitly foretold as far back as Morrowind.

3: Titus Mede was answered and explored in the book itself, he was the most powerful bandit warlord at the end of the day so he declared himself Emperor.

[Natasha Biss]

That's really, really sad. Still, I find myself looking forward the next one, it's not bad but those things I mentioned just made me a little pissed off. I must have missed that part about Titus Mede, perhaps I should read the novel again. XD

And more info about what happened to the mages guild would be nice

[Jonathan Egan]

Couple of questions. I'm not sure if these were mentioned in the previous threads, so I apologize in advance.

What is Umbriel? I know it's a big hunk of rock powered by some sort of oblivion-fueled ingenium. But where did it come from? Who are its inhabitants and what are their goals?

Is Umbra explicitly mentioned as the Daedric Prince of Umbriel, or is that a summation of what he's become?

In the Amazon sample pages I read a scene where mothlike creatures were descending from Umbriel upon the undead below. They seemed somehow linked to the creation of the undead. Could someone shed some light on this? And are there any new creatures inhabiting Umbriel?

Thanks for answering~

[Jordyn Youngman]

That's really, really sad. Still, I find myself looking forward the next one, it's not bad but those things I mentioned just made me a little pissed off. I must have missed that part about Titus Mede, perhaps I should read the novel again. XD

And more info about what happened to the mages guild would be nice

I got out the novel to check on a few things, and I've found a few interesting passages. By the way, an agent in the book notes that one of "Count Caro's daughters has been poisoning his guests, again." (p. 26). To me, this means Alessia Caro's granddaughters inherited her treacherous ways.

Anyway, the Mage's Guild has been replaced by a religious guild and a secular one. When Annaig mentions that a Synod mage has (re)discovered levitation, a Redguard mage tells her "And maybe if there was a Synod conclave within four hundred miles of here, you might have a chance of learning that, after a few years paying their dues." Keyes goes on to say the building in Lilmoth
"had once been the local Mages' Guild hall, and there were still three or four doddering practitioners . . . . Hecua honored their memberships, even though there was no such organization as the Mages' Guild anymore. . . .[N}either the College of Whispers nor the Synod -- the two Imperially recognized institutions of magic -- had representatives in Lilmoth".

So the Mages' Guild didn't survive for long, following the Oblivion Crisis, judging by the age of the former guild-members.

As to what Umbriel is doing with souls, Annaig is told by an Umbriel resident "Look, something beneath us dies. The soul-spinners nick the soul with their lines, and then the larvae fly down and get all snug in the bodies -- which then harvest more souls." "Most go to the ingenium, which keeps Umbriel aloft and moving. Some go to the vehrumasas [alchemical kitchens]."

On page 108: "Titus Mede had been -- and was -- many things. A soldier in an outlaw army, a warlord in Colovia, a king in Cyrodiil, and Emperor." This may not be the same as starting out a bandit; I wonder if Titus was former Legion.

Titus notes "I took this city [the IC] with under a thousand men. I routed Eddar Olin's northward thrust with barely twice that, and I hammered this empire back together with a handful of rivets." (p. 109) Mede's empire is smaller, of course; he doesn't have Black Marsh, and the Thalmor faction of Altmer have Valenwood.
There's an interesting sentence on p. 154: "Their [the Thalmor] harassment of refugees from the Summerset Isles and Valenwood also fits their broader pattern . . . ." My question is, are they refugees from the Thalmor or from another reason?

[Taylah Haines]

I got out the novel to check on a few things, and I've found a few interesting passages. By the way, an agent in the book notes that one of "Count Caro's daughters has been poisoning his guests, again." (p. 26). To me, this means Alessia Caro's granddaughters inherited her treacherous ways.

Anyway, the Mage's Guild has been replaced by a religious guild and a secular one. When Annaig mentions that a Synod mage has (re)discovered levitation, a Redguard mage tells her "And maybe if there was a Synod conclave within four hundred miles of here, you might have a chance of learning that, after a few years paying their dues." Keyes goes on to say the building in Lilmoth
"had once been the local Mages' Guild hall, and there were still three or four doddering practitioners . . . . Hecua honored their memberships, even though there was no such organization as the Mages' Guild anymore. . . .[N}either the College of Whispers nor the Synod -- the two Imperially recognized institutions of magic -- had representatives in Lilmoth".

So the Mages' Guild didn't survive for long, following the Oblivion Crisis, judging by the age of the former guild-members.

As to what Umbriel is doing with souls, Annaig is told by an Umbriel resident "Look, something beneath us dies. The soul-spinners nick the soul with their lines, and then the larvae fly down and get all snug in the bodies -- which then harvest more souls." "Most go to the ingenium, which keeps Umbriel aloft and moving. Some go to the vehrumasas [alchemical kitchens]."

On page 108: "Titus Mede had been -- and was -- many things. A soldier in an outlaw army, a warlord in Colovia, a king in Cyrodiil, and Emperor." This may not be the same as starting out a bandit; I wonder if Titus was former Legion.

Titus notes "I took this city [the IC] with under a thousand men. I routed Eddar Olin's northward thrust with barely twice that, and I hammered this empire back together with a handful of rivets. (p. 109) Mede's empire is smaller, of course; he doesn't have Black Marsh, and the Thalmor faction of Altmer have Valenwood. There's an interesting sentence on p. 154: "Their [the Thalmor] harassment of refugees from the Summerset Isles and Valenwood also fits their broader pattern . . . ." My question is, are they refugees from the Thalmor or from another reason?

Er, lots of stuff there and not a lot of time on my hands. I figured "Outlaw Army" to mean either bandits or some kind of marauders like you kill so much of in Oblivion, and a warlord in this kind of political climate is a rough equivalent to a mafia don.

as for the Thalmor, they are probably super-extremist, therefore members of the races who they believe "should" agree with them who don't are dissenters and likely considered racial traitors. Such an extremist faction would likely attmpt to murder any of said dissenters who fled the country as refugees.

My calculations of the Mede Empire are basically Cyrodiil, perhaps parts of Skyrim and some of the Iliac Bay possibly. Not much beyond that.

[Bloomer]

Er, lots of stuff there and not a lot of time on my hands. I figured "Outlaw Army" to mean either bandits or some kind of marauders like you kill so much of in Oblivion, and a warlord in this kind of political climate is a rough equivalent to a mafia don.

as for the Thalmor, they are probably super-extremist, therefore members of the races who they believe "should" agree with them who don't are dissenters and likely considered racial traitors. Such an extremist faction would likely attmpt to murder any of said dissenters who fled the country as refugees.

My calculations of the Mede Empire are basically Cyrodiil, perhaps parts of Skyrim and some of the Iliac Bay possibly. Not much beyond that.

I wonder if the Redguards consider themselves part of the Empire. I don't think it was spelled out in the novel. Skyrim apparently is autonomous or nearly so, since Mede's agents mention Skyrim as if it's practically forbidden territory.

By "outlaw army", maybe it's not "army of bandits" but "army of rebels, former Legion". I'd like to hear more detail from Keyes.

[brenden casey]

So the empire is now ruled by a random guy who invaded the Imperial City? Erm....ok. anyway, seeing how i dont plan on getting the book could anyone please summarize what major changes/ events have happened just to keep me up to date with tamriel
remember the last i heard the emperor is dead and chancellor ocato is currently holding the fort after the last of the deadra were driven out.

[Laura Samson]

So the empire is now ruled by a random guy who invaded the Imperial City? Erm....ok. anyway, seeing how i dont plan on getting the book could anyone please summarize what major changes/ events have happened just to keep me up to date with tamriel
remember the last i heard the emperor is dead and chancellor ocato is currently holding the fort after the last of the deadra were driven out.

Remember http://members.shaw.ca/rado907/maps/morrowind.jpg Here's what it looks like http://startswithabang.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/mar08-11-1280.jpg Remember http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs48/f/2009/188/e/5/Open_Vivec_WIP___Random_Pic_by_Archibald_TK.jpg Not http://reheated.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/nuclear-bomb.jpg

[Tyler F]

Remember http://members.shaw.ca/rado907/maps/morrowind.jpg Here's what it looks like http://startswithabang.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/mar08-11-1280.jpg Remember http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs48/f/2009/188/e/5/Open_Vivec_WIP___Random_Pic_by_Archibald_TK.jpg Not http://reheated.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/nuclear-bomb.jpg

Also, the Empire crumbled. Now there are three, the An-Xileel empire in the east (Morrowind and Black Marsh), The Empire is Cyrodiil, ruled by the medes, and the Thalmor are trying to be the old Aldmeri Dominion and sound like trouble to me.

[Angel Torres]

The http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Infernal_City/Plot_Summary is quite comprehensive.

[Misty lt]

The http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Infernal_City/Plot_Summary is quite comprehensive.

That was a lot shorter back when I last looked at it.

EDIT: Although the character list could do better. isn't Tai-Tai a chicken?

[Baylea Isaacs]

Remember http://members.shaw.ca/rado907/maps/morrowind.jpg Here's what it looks like http://startswithabang.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/mar08-11-1280.jpg Remember http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs48/f/2009/188/e/5/Open_Vivec_WIP___Random_Pic_by_Archibald_TK.jpg Not http://reheated.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/nuclear-bomb.jpg

I love this

[Dylan Markese]

I finally got around to reading the book. Reading all the complaints I didn't expect it to be any good, but I found it to be a pleasant way to pass the weekend. It wasn't great literature - though I had never expected it to be. But it was a great diversion from the other reading material I'm working through right now.

I was fairly impressed with how Keyes worked with some of the deeper issues of the lore (how Whitegold Tower "holds up" Mundus; how it was Vivec's power that kept the Ministry of Truth afloat) as well as with the more surface level stuff (the different regions and races, etc).

Anyway, here's where I see this thing going. Vohun wants to take Umbriel and settle on top of Whitegold Tower, this will allow him to unite his island with Mundus, finally severing it - and himself - from Clavicus Vile's realm. If he succeeds he'll probably appoint himself emperor too - and since its his city where the Imperial City used to be, he'll be right. But he won't succeed. He may be beaten already - the conclusion of the final battle between Vohun, Sul, and Attrebus isn't clear. But even if he survives that he'll be defeated somehow. Sul is going to utilize his knowledge of making paths through Oblivion to return to Mundus and find the Sword. He'll return to Umbriel and trap Umbra's spirit in the sword. At some point Attrebus will meet up with Annaig and Glim. Together, with the knowledge Annaig and Glim have of the island and Sul has of the ingenium and Oblivion-paths, they'll reverse the ingenium-process returning the souls to the living, escape from Umbriel, and send the island rejoin with Clavicus Vile's realm. Consequently, people will begin to genuinely respect Attrebus as a leader, helping garner support for the fledging empire.

That's my prediction.

[Taylah Haines]

Together, with the knowledge Annaig and Glim have of the island and Sul has of the ingenium and Oblivion-paths, they'll reverse the ingenium-process returning the souls to the living, escape from Umbriel, and send the island rejoin with Clavicus Vile's realm. Consequently, people will begin to genuinely respect Attrebus as a leader, helping garner support for the fledging empire.

That's my prediction.

Your anolysis is reasonable. I have the feeling though that the ingenium's process is irreversible -- the undead horde will probably just collapse like puppets with their strings cut, but at least they'll be at peace. I wouldn't be surprised if Attrebus and Annaig end up as you say, though.

[quinnnn]

Your anolysis is reasonable. I have the feeling though that the ingenium's process is irreversible -- the undead horde will probably just collapse like puppets with their strings cut, but at least they'll be at peace. I wouldn't be surprised if Attrebus and Annaig end up as you say, though.

Keyes tends to run for either Bittersweet or "earn your happy ending"s. So I doubt that things will simply be fixed.

And my monitor now takes ten minutes or less to whitescreen after being turned on.

[carla]

http://imperial-library.info/maps/cyrodiillargelowrescr7.jpg And Cheydinhal is very much in the center of Umbriel's path. although most other major cities besides Lilmoth seem to have been narrowly missed, at least by the city itself. Narsis I am assuming is deserted so they wouldn't mind. But there's still the issue of the Hist calling the Argonians so avoiding major population centers may be moot up to leaving Argonia.

[Maeva]

http://imperial-library.info/maps/cyrodiillargelowrescr7.jpg And Cheydinhal is very much in the center of Umbriel's path. although most other major cities besides Lilmoth seem to have been narrowly missed, at least by the city itself. Narsis I am assuming is deserted so they wouldn't mind. But there's still the issue of the Hist calling the Argonians so avoiding major population centers may be moot up to leaving Argonia.

Judging from the map, it looks as if the citizens of Bravil will also buy the farm. A shame. I think Vuhon will be stopped at some point, though; he's killed too many people to be allowed to succeed, in the long run.

I didn't know Lilmoth was an actual city, and in the far south of Argonia, until I looked at the map just now.

[Cagla Cali]

Judging from the map, it looks as if the citizens of Bravil will also buy the farm. A shame. I think Vuhon will be stopped at some point, though; he's killed too many people to be allowed to succeed, in the long run.

I didn't know Lilmoth was an actual city, and in the far south of Argonia, until I looked at the map just now.

I don't think Bravil is in all that much trouble. Go on a paint file then draw a line from south of Lilmoth to Vivec, then from Vivec to The Imperial City. Still a lot of walking dead at that distance, though. And the dead may be walking elsewhere so other places may be attacked.

[Andrew Perry]

Not sure how you're figuring that. Umbriel passed strait over Lilmoth and continued due north to Vivec, which does not pass through Bravil or Cheydinhal. Before it hit Argonia it was over the ocean (undead weresharks ftw?)

[Latino HeaT]

Not sure how you're figuring that. Umbriel passed strait over Lilmoth and continued due north to Vivec, which does not pass through Bravil or Cheydinhal. Before it hit Argonia it was over the ocean (undead weresharks ftw?)

I mean that on the way to the Imperial City in the eventual book two (where the hell is it?) it will pass right over Cheydinhal, just like how Lilmoth and Narsis happened to be between the point of Origin and Vivec.

[brian adkins]

Oh. Well, to be fair, we don't quite know if its heading there yet. It could fly all the way up to Soltheim and then back down on a diagonal.

[Rachael Williams]

he's killed too many people to be allowed to succeed, in the long run.

Hahahaha if only this was true. If only people's chances for success was determined by the number of people they have or haven't killed...

[Suzie Dalziel]

Oh. Well, to be fair, we don't quite know if its heading there yet. It could fly all the way up to Soltheim and then back down on a diagonal.

I got from the dialog that he was going to start right for there and let his on-Tamriel moles and the walking dead deal with Solstheim. That'll likely be his undoing, not personally overseeing something as important as retrieving Umbra. Saves time, but it'll kick him right in the balls.

Hahahaha if only this was true. If only people's chances for success was determined by the number of people they have or haven't killed...

Well, logically speaking if you kill a lot of people the people who are still alive would probably want to stop you to avoid being killed or having their loved ones be killed, and therefore resistance tends to go up the more atrocities you commit. Can't go into real-world stuff here, but read a few history books.

Although Nero and Caligula are probably forum-okayed as examples. Cynicism is for wangsty teens, after all, and only impresses other wangsty teens.